Hi Karen,
I like this attitude. Women have been used to the ups and downs of hormones since childhood. Men learn it much later. But isn't it great to know there's a different you available when you want it? For fun, for some insight, for a better emotional life, or just out of curiosity?
That's why I keep experimenting with all of the herbs I use. I recently went from two to three tablespoons of hops for the vivid dreams. They're very useful in therapy. And it looks like I've really gone overboard on goat's rue during the past four weeks. I'm sure that had something to do with the joys of swelling
Other than stalling, I've never been afraid of heights in the doses. For a night out in drag, I used to double or triple the hops, and enjoy a nap before getting ready. Up to 10,000 mg of fenugreek for the swelling. 4,000 mg of fish oil for the shiny skin. Oh, as I write this, I want to look like that again!
Isabelle,
I just read over lots of my past notes. It's looking like 1,000 mg of SP and 2,000 mg of Hops (both my liquid extract) in water. Then Testim ... 1 to 1 1/2 tubes .... maybe an hour later ... is a good way to start the day. It may actually be into the dosage for "NBE" .... but what I feel is subtle .... not over the top.
Karen
(11-05-2012, 09:10 PM)Isabelle Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Karen,
I like it because it's both locally grown and organic.
luisa,
I don't really know.
One capsule contains 200 µg 8-prenylnaringenin:
http://www.metagenics.eu/en/19/consumer/...ml?id=1926
The extraction process is a multi-step process. Check for instance example 1 in this patent application:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1727555.html
Moreover, an isomerisation of xanthohumol to isoxanthohumol follows the extracton step, see example 2.
So it's not simple to determine the strength of the extract in g herb per ml extract. In addition, the supplement is a capsule, so I assume it contains a solid, not a liquid.
I think this supplement is worth taking for the probiotic. That colonizes the large intestine with a bacterium that makes the phyto-estrogen 8-prenylnaringenin from isoxanthohumol. Xanthohumol has been isomerised to isoxanthohumol in the manufacture of the supplement. So it becomes very difficult to compare the effectiveness of the supplement with dried hops. Because it's a menopause supplement, I expect the dose may be ten times lower than an NBE dose. So I would advise to take the supplement for a month for the probiotic, add an NBE dose of hops (2,000-3,000 mg dried herb for 120-180 lbs body weight), and continue the NBE dose of hops after stopping the supplement.
Isabelle, Many thanks for the information. I got a pack of 90 capsules so I can use it for the probiotic for three months or increase up to 3 capsules of Menohop per day to get more good bacteria. I will start with one (in addition to dried hops and hops extract I currently take) and see if I see any difference. I only seem to be getting headaches/sensations from the hops tea so I am not sure if hops taken internally does anything for me at the moment. Do you know if the above recommended dose can be taken as a tea or the tea is taken in addition to 2,000 - 3,000 mg of hops taken internally? I believe Eve used to take 1,800 of hops internally in addition to 2,000 mg of hops tea.
Hi Karen,
That's more like it. The testim eventually becomes estrogens too, so it may take huge doses of hops on top of that to feel anything really different. You can build it up over time, and spiral hops and fenugreek to higher doses.
For a wild ride, I take more maca - in your program, that would be testim - and I added the L-arginine for more nitric oxide. I may try GABA or its little brothers or 5-HTP in fall. Keep in mind that hops binds to serotonin receptors, and there is an identified antidepressant in maca. You could also try PM for the dopamine. Once your breasts grow, you have more options. They start making oxytocin, which is a really sweet rush. Then something like NB makes sense.
Hi luisa,
You can probably do with low doses because the tea already gives you headaches. You can balance the headaches with FG or WY or FN or PC. Once you take the probiotic, the internal hops should have a stronger estrogenic effect than the tea - in theory. It's your body, and your instincts should tell you how to act on your symptoms. If you drink the tea close to a meal, between 20 minutes before and 2 hours after, it will work as hops taken internally.
My hops dose is the equivalent of Eve M's 1,800 mg, corrected for body weight. I don't drink hops tea any more, because I hardly ever have any androgen symptoms. I don't mention it in my program, but the teas I drink are licorice, mint-licorice, and mint-licorice-cinnamon. All contain anti-androgens. I drink a pot a day, but skip two or three days a week. The teabags are 2,500 mg, or 2,000 mg for the one cup teabags.
Adding the doses is a bit complicated. 8-Prenylnaringenin (8-PN) is the strong phyto-estrogen. Xanthohumol (X) is the anti-androgen. It's also a weak phyto-estrogen. The bacteria make 8-PN from X, via isoxanthohumol (IX) as an intermediate. The conversion to 8-PN is 80 %, and the X content in most hops is 10-20 times higher than the 8-PN content. The hops dose in the Menohop is low. The X in it has already been isomerized chemically to IX.
I believe Eve M's doses, with added Menohop, are about right, unless you drink the tea too close to a meal. That will double the 8-PN dose: 2,000 mg * 80 % = 1,600 mg + 1,800 mg internally. You could stall on that, but once in a while, I take high doses too, for just one day.
I'm not sure how to time the Menohop. The instructions that come with it may be helpful. It would be nice to take dried hops internally, or have tea with your meal, after the Menohop has put the bacteria in place, and they've had enough time to multiply. I'd have to dig into those publications to find out how long it takes to colonize the large intestine. Off the top of my head, they supplement for four days or so, and they don't mention a daily cycle in the amount of bacteria present.
(12-05-2012, 02:54 PM)Isabelle Wrote: [ -> ]... after the Menohop has put the bacteria in place, and they've had enough time to multiply. I'd have to dig into those publications to find out how long it takes to colonize the large intestine. Off the top of my head, they supplement for four days or so, and they don't mention a daily cycle in the amount of bacteria present.
I've also seen that the "specific" bacteria are killed by some anti-biotics ... tests have shown that the "conversion" to 8-Prenylnaringenin is less in those that have recently used anti-biotics .... so it's probably a good thing to keep some "boosters capsules" around .... if you have to take anti-biotics for some reason, once you've finished give yourself several days for them to clear your body ... and then take your menohops again for a week at least. My thoughts anyway
Karen
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Added at 3:01 PM
Very interesting .... here's what I had so far today
• 7:50 AM … 1,000 mg of SP and 2,000 mg of Hops in Water
• 8:50 AM … 1 and ¼ tubes of Testim
• 11:10 AM … 3,000 mg of Hops in Yogurt with Oats and Almonds
No FG so far today ....
My boobs are a little swollen and nicely rounded (a nice hand full on each side) .... also my ankles and feet are swollen ... I'm on the "edge" of a headache.
These doses are lower than the 4, 5, and 6K doses that I have tried and I'm still feeling signs AND not as irritable as I have been on occasion with high doses.
Karen
(12-05-2012, 02:54 PM)Isabelle Wrote: [ -> ]Hi luisa,
You can probably do with low doses because the tea already gives you headaches. You can balance the headaches with FG or WY or FN or PC. Once you take the probiotic, the internal hops should have a stronger estrogenic effect than the tea - in theory. It's your body, and your instincts should tell you how to act on your symptoms. If you drink the tea close to a meal, between 20 minutes before and 2 hours after, it will work as hops taken internally.
My hops dose is the equivalent of Eve M's 1,800 mg, corrected for body weight. I don't drink hops tea any more, because I hardly ever have any androgen symptoms. I don't mention it in my program, but the teas I drink are licorice, mint-licorice, and mint-licorice-cinnamon. All contain anti-androgens. I drink a pot a day, but skip two or three days a week. The teabags are 2,500 mg, or 2,000 mg for the one cup teabags.
Adding the doses is a bit complicated. 8-Prenylnaringenin (8-PN) is the strong phyto-estrogen. Xanthohumol (X) is the anti-androgen. It's also a weak phyto-estrogen. The bacteria make 8-PN from X, via isoxanthohumol (IX) as an intermediate. The conversion to 8-PN is 80 %, and the X content in most hops is 10-20 times higher than the 8-PN content. The hops dose in the Menohop is low. The X in it has already been isomerized chemically to IX.
I believe Eve M's doses, with added Menohop, are about right, unless you drink the tea too close to a meal. That will double the 8-PN dose: 2,000 mg * 80 % = 1,600 mg + 1,800 mg internally. You could stall on that, but once in a while, I take high doses too, for just one day.
I'm not sure how to time the Menohop. The instructions that come with it may be helpful. It would be nice to take dried hops internally, or have tea with your meal, after the Menohop has put the bacteria in place, and they've had enough time to multiply. I'd have to dig into those publications to find out how long it takes to colonize the large intestine. Off the top of my head, they supplement for four days or so, and they don't mention a daily cycle in the amount of bacteria present.
Hi Isabelle, Many thanks for explaining the details. It all make sense to me now! You explained the conversion process really good. I have to really watch when I take my tea now. I am not sure if I have been taking it over 2 hours after a meal since I ocasionally have snacks between meals. I am also going to go ahead and try to replace my evening hops extract with hops tea taken with yogurt, etc to see if the dried hops I am using is more effective. I took my Menohop about 2 hours before the hops/oats/flaxseed in yogurt mixture in the evening today.
Regarding the instructions, they only come in Dutch and French. However, from what I understand they only mention to take "one capsule per day or as recommended". No further instructions are given.
Thanks again for all your help!
Karen, I agree about anti-biotics. I will definitely keep some "boosters capsules" for the future.
Thank you luisa and Karen,
I was afraid that post would be difficult to read. But you two know what you're doing now, and I never tried Menohop myself. I'm interested to know what you find. Because hops already works for me, I can't test the probiotic.
In 2004, 10 % of all Belgian women were already using Menohop for menopause complaints. Even though Belgian scientists did point out that the hops dose is low. Using it together with dried hops should work, in theory.
Happy Mothers Day to all you Mom's out there ....
Enjoy your Day ... I hope you have a Great One
Hugs ..... Karen