11-05-2012, 04:26 PM
11-05-2012, 07:42 PM
Hi Isabelle and Karen,
Further to your discussion about extracts, I was wondering if you can help me.
I have just received my Menohop from Holland. I actually ordered the one with hops only (recommended by Isabelle) but they sent me the type with hops and soy which actually seems to be stronger since it has 200 mg of hopsextract instead of 100 mg from the old version with hops only. There is no mentioning about the strengh of this extract. Does it mean that it is 1:1? Karen, I believe you mentioned that you ordered the same product?
Further to your discussion about extracts, I was wondering if you can help me.
I have just received my Menohop from Holland. I actually ordered the one with hops only (recommended by Isabelle) but they sent me the type with hops and soy which actually seems to be stronger since it has 200 mg of hopsextract instead of 100 mg from the old version with hops only. There is no mentioning about the strengh of this extract. Does it mean that it is 1:1? Karen, I believe you mentioned that you ordered the same product?
luisa,
Yes I did order the menohop with soy but I have not yet received mine. The extracts that I have been talking about are liquid extracts, specifically Natures Answer Hops Strobile Organic Alcohol 1:1 Extract.
Karen
Yes I did order the menohop with soy but I have not yet received mine. The extracts that I have been talking about are liquid extracts, specifically Natures Answer Hops Strobile Organic Alcohol 1:1 Extract.
Karen
11-05-2012, 09:10 PM
Hi Karen,
I like it because it's both locally grown and organic.
luisa,
I don't really know.
One capsule contains 200 µg 8-prenylnaringenin:
http://www.metagenics.eu/en/19/consumer/...ml?id=1926
The extraction process is a multi-step process. Check for instance example 1 in this patent application:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1727555.html
Moreover, an isomerisation of xanthohumol to isoxanthohumol follows the extracton step, see example 2.
So it's not simple to determine the strength of the extract in g herb per ml extract. In addition, the supplement is a capsule, so I assume it contains a solid, not a liquid.
I think this supplement is worth taking for the probiotic. That colonizes the large intestine with a bacterium that makes the phyto-estrogen 8-prenylnaringenin from isoxanthohumol. Xanthohumol has been isomerised to isoxanthohumol in the manufacture of the supplement. So it becomes very difficult to compare the effectiveness of the supplement with dried hops. Because it's a menopause supplement, I expect the dose may be ten times lower than an NBE dose. So I would advise to take the supplement for a month for the probiotic, add an NBE dose of hops (2,000-3,000 mg dried herb for 120-180 lbs body weight), and continue the NBE dose of hops after stopping the supplement.
I like it because it's both locally grown and organic.
luisa,
I don't really know.
One capsule contains 200 µg 8-prenylnaringenin:
http://www.metagenics.eu/en/19/consumer/...ml?id=1926
The extraction process is a multi-step process. Check for instance example 1 in this patent application:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1727555.html
Moreover, an isomerisation of xanthohumol to isoxanthohumol follows the extracton step, see example 2.
So it's not simple to determine the strength of the extract in g herb per ml extract. In addition, the supplement is a capsule, so I assume it contains a solid, not a liquid.
I think this supplement is worth taking for the probiotic. That colonizes the large intestine with a bacterium that makes the phyto-estrogen 8-prenylnaringenin from isoxanthohumol. Xanthohumol has been isomerised to isoxanthohumol in the manufacture of the supplement. So it becomes very difficult to compare the effectiveness of the supplement with dried hops. Because it's a menopause supplement, I expect the dose may be ten times lower than an NBE dose. So I would advise to take the supplement for a month for the probiotic, add an NBE dose of hops (2,000-3,000 mg dried herb for 120-180 lbs body weight), and continue the NBE dose of hops after stopping the supplement.
11-05-2012, 09:32 PM
I emptied another container of goat's rue yesterday. I started it on April 14th. That makes my dose 2.5 times higher than it was before April 14th:
200 g in 17+10=27 days = 7,400 mg.
No wonder I had good swelling this month
200 g in 17+10=27 days = 7,400 mg.
No wonder I had good swelling this month
11-05-2012, 10:25 PM
Isabelle,
I was surprised that you didn't comment on post #1179 and #1180 (above)
I do question about how Potent the extract "actually is" but my explanation of my extract (being made with dried hops, 1 gram hops added to 1 mL of extract, and "advertised" as 1,000 mg of hops per mL) is accurate. I do think that it is weaker (in potency) than 1000 mg of Hops per 1 mL .... based on how my body reacts to it BUT then I don't have anything to compare it to. Sounds like ordering some of the organic dried hops will be a decent comparison test.
Karen
I was surprised that you didn't comment on post #1179 and #1180 (above)
I do question about how Potent the extract "actually is" but my explanation of my extract (being made with dried hops, 1 gram hops added to 1 mL of extract, and "advertised" as 1,000 mg of hops per mL) is accurate. I do think that it is weaker (in potency) than 1000 mg of Hops per 1 mL .... based on how my body reacts to it BUT then I don't have anything to compare it to. Sounds like ordering some of the organic dried hops will be a decent comparison test.
Karen
11-05-2012, 10:59 PM
Yes, I think your analysis of the way they present the information on the extract is correct. I hadn't noticed myself that they actually addressed the difference between fresh and dried herbs.
I was still thinking about your post on the effect of the dose. Many symptoms of estrogen excess and deficiency are the same:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10918&pid=42754#pid42754
and that goes for progesterone too. So I was still thinking about what you added the next morning in post #1172. I mean, if you increase a hops dose and the ED symptoms go away, it's more likely to be a stall. But you're already stalled on testim. Another possibility could be that you started on a progesterone dose that was too high, then increased hops to the right balance, and then to a level that made the progesterone dose too low.
Can you retrieve what exactly happened from your journal?
I was still thinking about your post on the effect of the dose. Many symptoms of estrogen excess and deficiency are the same:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10918&pid=42754#pid42754
and that goes for progesterone too. So I was still thinking about what you added the next morning in post #1172. I mean, if you increase a hops dose and the ED symptoms go away, it's more likely to be a stall. But you're already stalled on testim. Another possibility could be that you started on a progesterone dose that was too high, then increased hops to the right balance, and then to a level that made the progesterone dose too low.
Can you retrieve what exactly happened from your journal?
11-05-2012, 11:42 PM
(11-05-2012, 10:59 PM)Isabelle Wrote: I was still thinking about your post on the effect of the dose. Many symptoms of estrogen excess and deficiency are the same:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10918&pid=42754#pid42754
and that goes for progesterone too. So I was still thinking about what you added the next morning in post #1172. I mean, if you increase a hops dose and the ED symptoms go away, it's more likely to be a stall. But you're already stalled on testim. Another possibility could be that you started on a progesterone dose that was too high, then increased hops to the right balance, and then to a level that made the progesterone dose too low.
Knowing my "anal" notes I'm sure I'll be able to outline it exactly. I'll read over the post and review my journal and I'll let you know.
You had said stalling .... is there a different kind of stalling other than the one where you overload hormones and your LH goes way low and shuts down everything ... cause remember I'm not LH regulated.
For what I do remember before looking, what seems to happen is I increase hops and instead of the symptoms getting worse they go away ... I for sure have watched time and things like how long it takes until I feel a slight headache remains the same so "something" is happening ... I just think it takes a higher dose of my Extract to bring them on (like 4,000 mg or more) so everything kinda is "doubtful" ....
Karen
12-05-2012, 08:07 AM
Good morning Karen,
You are not LH regulated because technically, you are in a stall because of the testim (testosterone cream). But of course, it's a matter of debate what you call it. You are the only one on the forum driving a program to operate above the stalling limit. So it's a good thing to remind readers regularly that their own situation is different.
Corrected for body weight, 4,000 mg is about equivalent to my dose. So I don't understand what's going on. It's a good thing you are ruling out any effect of the extract first, and get some good dried herb from a local source. Hops is difficult to keep, so a package sent straight from Oregon, from last August's harvest, is the best bet.
You are not LH regulated because technically, you are in a stall because of the testim (testosterone cream). But of course, it's a matter of debate what you call it. You are the only one on the forum driving a program to operate above the stalling limit. So it's a good thing to remind readers regularly that their own situation is different.
Corrected for body weight, 4,000 mg is about equivalent to my dose. So I don't understand what's going on. It's a good thing you are ruling out any effect of the extract first, and get some good dried herb from a local source. Hops is difficult to keep, so a package sent straight from Oregon, from last August's harvest, is the best bet.
12-05-2012, 10:47 AM
(12-05-2012, 08:07 AM)Isabelle Wrote: Good morning Karen,
You are not LH regulated because technically, you are in a stall because of the testim (testosterone cream). But of course, it's a matter of debate what you call it. You are the only one on the forum driving a program to operate above the stalling limit. So it's a good thing to remind readers regularly that their own situation is different.
Corrected for body weight, 4,000 mg is about equivalent to my dose. So I don't understand what's going on. It's a good thing you are ruling out any effect of the extract first, and get some good dried herb from a local source. Hops is difficult to keep, so a package sent straight from Oregon, from last August's harvest, is the best bet.
Guess I'm still having a hard time with the word stall .... do you mean that my LH is consistently Low because of a steady diet of Testosterone Gel? Which is the same result that people see when they overload their herbs? Which is called "stalling" ... I think that's it anyway. The difference is that since my Testosterone isn't produced by my body, it is NOT Lowered when my LH goes down. The result of using too much herbs is different in me ... and actually is probably NOT DESIRABLE ... I do not have a built in regulator.
I'm not liking "my program" the way it is now. It's like a roller coaster PLUS I really am not comfortable with the size of the doses. This is more of an experiment than a program. Problem is there are way too many variables ... which tends to make results "inconclusive" and only be speculations.
I have been keeping detailed notes ... a journal for sure ... and going back to look over things does help me understand at least trends.
We've talked about this before .... rather than this being a "program" for NBE, it's more of a "walk on the kinky side" .... my bad
I enjoy the little "rushes" and "vivid dreams" and being able to feel "boobs" on my chest ..... but that's another story.The one thing that I do have to say is that "some amount" of Herbs does help take to take the "edge" off of TRT. It often feels like I've had too much coffee and Herbs help me find a calm place, but one that still has energy .... I want to find exactly what I need to do to stay in that place .... AND .... be able to bring out that "Kinky Little Devil" from time to time.
I agree that it makes sense for me to make sure people understand what I am doing when I post ... for sure I wouldn't want a "speed reader" to pick up pieces here and there and go down the wrong path.
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