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A thousand people read this thread every day, so I hope somebody has good advice.

My younger daughter's got a sweet tooth, and she has been using all her strength to refuse ice cream desserts lately. Three years ago, she was diagnosed with ADD. Her thyroid managed to make just enough T3 and T4, but only with Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) at the maximum end of the normal range. Both my ex and I were experimenting with vegan diets at that time, and the thyroid improved after we stopped the soy overload. We checked heavy metals too, but nothing was wrong there.

Puberty started at 14. My sister started spotting at 10, and both my ex and my elder daughter had BFs at 14, and were on bc by age 15. My younger daughter manages acne very well. A friend of hers waxes her eyebrows and upper lip, which is necessary. She's got big thighs, is not forming a waistline, and her breasts develop slower than her classmates'. My ex and I saw her specialist two weeks ago, and agreed that my ex would go to the GP for a good choice of bcp. The girl doesn't like swallowing pills, and the next thing I heard was that she felt like she was being pulled into this. So some damage is already done.

She'll be 16 in August. I don't want her to feel like the love of her parents is conditional, and depends on exactly how beautiful she becomes. There's a conflict with another part of me that wants to help her with everything I learned on this forum and more, to become the best she can be, with respect of course for her own idea of what's best (another conflict). I already gave her black seed. If I were her, I'd try flax too, but there's a third conflict with the accepted view on this forum that 15 is way too young for herbs, even for those herbs that double as healthy foods or teas. There is a conflict of conscience about the black seed as well.

A fifth conflict is in a feeling that her current development is in part a consequence of the thyroid issues three years ago, more than a sex hormone imbalance. But advising her to try L-tyrosine or even iodine enriched salt doesn't feel a lot better than black seed. My ex, by the way, started the black seed at the same time, and just two days ago gave me a huge breasted hug, saying she's going to stop black seed for now, because she's getting just too many compliments in the sauna. So there's the sixth conflict: is it really OK to show off that we can do anything we want with our bodies, while two of our children are still growing?

I'll fix a few details right away, like yogurt and fruit instead of ice cream desserts, and more after dinner walks. But the rest is just a blur of relevant but seemingly unrelated facts, conflicting thoughts, and an emotional standstill, because all the turmoil tells me I'm probably missing the one important point here.

So this has been bugging me for two weeks. Thank you for reading it all. Take your time to think about it, but I would really like to know how you would go about this.
Hi Isabelle,

I never had any daughters, only 2 sons, so I can't be more than theoretical help here, but I do certainly sympathise with your dilemma's, we had those with the boys as well, but in different ways!

My personal gut feeling is that you should listen to the medical professionals but otherwise leave nature to do it's own thing. I can understand you wanting her to be as beautiful a young woman as possible, I know I would be exactly the same ( in fact I always wanted a daughter and I know that a big part of that was so that I could buy her all the beautiful clothes and make-up, etc that I wanted for myself Blush ). However you know as well as I do that at 15 she still has a lot of natural development to run through and aside from potentially screwing up her natural development, there is an equally good chance of actually achieving the opposite of what you want by forcing her body into conflict.

Finally, of course 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder' and what you think is the perfect woman may not be what she thinks ( and from what you've said that is already at least partly the case), and I'm perfectly sure that somewhere out there is a boy who will one day think she is venus re-incarnated, whatever she looks like.

So, my take is: do nothing that isn't medically indicated, hide all the herbs, look after her, support her, but let her grow up in her own way.Smile
(25-05-2012, 09:09 AM)Isabelle Wrote: [ -> ]And Pansy Mae,

I don't know about the right dose for the estrogenic effect of milk thistle. I just took 3 times 250 mg daily because that's what it said on the bottle, and because of this post by Twister Mama:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=6509&pid=27818#pid27818

So you might be able to go higher if you are sure you are not allergic to ragweed. My skin felt static all over, so I didn't take any risks.

I have no idea if I'm allergic to ragweed, apart from hearing the name I don't even know what it is! However after reading that post by Twister Mama, I'm not at all sure I want to find out!

(25-05-2012, 09:09 AM)Isabelle Wrote: [ -> ]I've been thinking about how to diagnose a stall. There's still Wahaika's stall test. And lowering the anti-androgen may be the fastest way. Oily skin and libido should return within hours or days.

I've seen passing references to Wahaika's stall test but I don't think I've read the test itself and I can't find it by searching here. However I know that he is very definitely 'anti-men' when it comes to breast development so presumably his test will be female-specific? Given the fundamental difference in starting point/natural production I have to wonder if it would be relevant anyway?

I've personally never had a problem with oily skin, even in my teen years, although as I've said before I do have very dry skin these days ( dry as in not sweaty wet), so maybe thats the same effect.
The libido 'test' isn't something that is likely to be a determinant for me, for other reasons.
Thank you Pansy Mae,

A lot to think about. I'm obviously interfering in her life in a lot more ways than I was aware of Dodgy
This is how Suri described the stall test:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=4004&pid=8086#pid8086
It obviously doesn't work for everyone. I rarely have tingles, for example.
(25-05-2012, 11:05 AM)Isabelle Wrote: [ -> ]Hi sfita,

I think that will work, yes. It's actually a great idea. I don't know if you can lower hops much, though. Below 1,500 mg, it probably won't be doing anything. Increasing the fenugreek or the fennel will get you more motivation out of this program, because of the swelling.

so lets say increasing the dose of FG to 2500mg and fennel to 500mg and a cup of fennel tea every othe day will do it??
Yes sfita,

I think that will work. Of course it hasn't been done before, so be careful and journal your symptoms.
I finished another bag of flax seed today. I started it on February 5th. I used 400 g in 25+31+30+25=111 days: that's 3,600 mg a day. Considering that I decreased the dose from an egg spoon to a teaspoon on March 19th, the 3,600 mg average dose is close enough to the 3,000 mg I'm aiming for now.
Today is an intermediate tape day, because I'm out of L-arginine. The regular tape day is the day after tomorrow.

Weight is up to 82.0 kg. That's still a consequence of slacking on carbs. Body Mass Index (BMI) is overweight (>25), at 25.7.

Breast circumference is higher than ever, at 115 cm, or 45 ". Band size is up from two weeks ago, to 89 cm, or 35 ". I'm still a US 40 DD. In EU sizes, I'm at 90, just on the edge between a G and an H cup.

Waist to Hip Ratio (WHR) is up to 0.83, from 0.79 two weeks ago. I just hope that stopping the L-arginine will help me get back on track with my diet.

So the L-arginine goes out after today. There are no other changes to my program.

Height: 178.5 cm = 5 * 30.48 + 10 * 2.54 = 5' 10"
Weight: 82.0 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 181 lbs
Body Mass Index (BMI): 82.0/1.785/1.785 = 25.7
Breast: 115 cm = 45"
Under: 89 cm = 35" Difference Breast - Under = 115 - 89 = 26 cm = 10 ", US bra size 40 DD, EU 90 G/H
Waist: 85 cm = 33"
Hip: 102 cm = 40" (actually the widest part around my butt)
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 85/102 = 0.83

Progress in 2011:
Day 11/7 26/7 08/8 22/8 05/9 19/9 3/10 17/10 31/10 14/11 28/11 12/12 27/12
BMI: 26.5 26.4 26.2 25.7 25.3 26.0 25.70 25.70 25.70 25.60 26.00 25.90 25.90
B-U: 8.00 5.00 8.00 8.00 8.00 10.0 10.00 13.00 11.00 14.00 15.00 16.00 16.00
Size 42AAA AAAA AAA AAA AAA AA 42AAA 42. A 42. A 42. A 42. B 42. B 42. B
WHR 0.95 .945 0.94 0.92 0.92 0.96 0.930 0.940 0.910 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.870

Progress in 2012:
Day 09/1 23/1 06/2 20/2 05/3 19/3 02/4 16/4 30/4 14/5 26/5
BMI: 25.7 26.7 26.4 25.9 25.7 25.3 25.7 25.0 25.1 25.6 25.7
B-U: 17.0 18.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 18.0 18.0 25.0 26.0 26.0 26.0
Size 42 B 42 C 42 C 42 C 42 D 40 C 40 D 38F 38 F 40DD 40DD
WHR 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.84 0.83 0.81 0.80 0.79 0.83
B-U = Breast - Under in cm
Envious congrats, as usual!!Big Grin
Just need to keep working on the weight.