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well then, what program would you reccomend i try?

Sorry. I was not completely following your conversation with Doll. I just read back through. You might be looking at a hormonal imbalance as well, maybe even undiagnosed PCOS like Doll.

I still suggest introducing things slowly since you don't know where you're starting from.

This is a long thread... I'm not quite 100% exactly what Dolls present program exactly is, so I can't really make any precise suggestions, just a vague sort of start things low, ramp one or two things at a time only, try to pay attention to how your body is reacting to the hormone changes... Eventually find and strike that perfect balance for yourself.

What I'd really really reallly REALLLLLLLLY recommend if you can at all manage it? Get a base hormone test. This is where your hormones are normally. Then I could actually help you formulate a custom plan to bring your hormones into the best balance possible.

It's also possible your reason for lack of growth wasn't hormonal at all you know, especially since I think you mentioned trying BO in the past and it did nothing to you?

You might have a thyroid issue or a problem with the pituitary. Both of these glands are kinda like the "traffic cops" of your hormonal pathways. They regulate exactly what hormones are produced exactly where in exactly what quantities with exactly a certain schedule and... yeah. Your overall hormone balance might be fine, but you might have corrupt cops.

For those conditions, there are various herbs that can be used to treat both hyper and hypo activity of both of your "traffic cop" glands.

And it could simply be a mental or emotional block you might not even be completely aware of... I'd suggest hypnotherapy for this.

Hypnotherapy certainly can't hurt in combination with any other plan as well though... So you can simply do it, while doing another plan, and maybe drop something you think isn't helping later while continuing what is.

I don't have insurance, so any trip to the doctor is going to financially rape me. I appreciate you looking into this so hard, that's really nice of you to do. perhaps i'll try this for a couple of months and then reevaluate?

I will definitely try the hypnotherapy aswell. I think I'll just cut Doll's dosage in half(ish) and then see what happens, yes?

If you do that, try it for 3 months before discarding it completely. At least. You can of course play with and adjust dosing at any point, especially if you feel any symptoms of drastic hormonal imbalance. Especially between the E and P. In females, that balance not being good is NASTY.

the e and p?

(15-09-2012, 12:57 AM)HJ1988 Wrote: [ -> ]the e and p?

Sorry... I get so used to the shorthand lol.

Estrogen and Progesterone. This involves all three estrogens and progesterone and progestins which bind to progesterone receptors, sometimes with nasty effects. Sometimes beneficial, but usually not.

IMHO, progestins are way over-prescribed for women's health... Natural, Real, progesterone should ALMOST always be used instead....

But I digress... The three animal estrogens are E1 - estrone, E2 - estradiol, and E3 - estriol.

Basically, if your E1 or E3 or both become elevated in comparison to E2, you run greater risk of estrogen-related cancers... If your E2 becomes elevated compared to your progesterone, several mood and health disorders may become evident. If your P becomes elevated, another set of mood and health disorders become evident... (One of the most immediately recognized signs of too much P is horrid skin conditions that I can only describe as nightmarish.)

To be honest, there really are no outward signs of E1/E3 dominance... most doctors even disregard that balance entirely... It's one of the most insidious nasties with women's health... The other is the over-prescription of unnatural progestins. The effects of both can go unrecognized for sooooooo long...

For a great resource on the imbalances you can generally self-diagnose, check out the following site:

http://www.johnleemd.com/store/resource_...etest.html

Also, if you can possibly at all swing it, you can check these guys out to do a quick base hormone test without involving any doctor visits: http://zionpharmacy.com/hormone-saliva-testing/

To be fair... I really should correct myself on the above... There eventually ARE outward signs of E1/E3 dominance - reproductive cancers... But... yeah... Most of the damage is already done by then and you're stuck doing reparative measures AND trying to correct that imbalance... That's a much steeper hill to climb than if the doctors simply took care of it to begin with the way they should.

I could do this to myself?

Not usually. It'd be pretty hard to actually. It's generally a genetic disposition type thing. But it CAN be corrected, and not just with manufactured medicines... And if you do have E1/E3 dominance, it's usually because of low E2 rather than high E1/E3. This is very easily corrected, that's what these boards are all about

If it's actual high E1/E3, then there's ways of messing about with aiding the reduction of E1 into E2 and blocking the reduction of E2 to E3...

Yes... the science really is this complicated, and more, lol. I'm trying to simplify it a little.

EDIT: SOOOO sorry for hijacking this thread Doll... HJ... we maybe might want to split off any further discussion to a different thread? Oh. and if you were also wondering about the E2/progesterone balance, yes, you very definitely CAN throw that out of whack with what we do here.

(15-09-2012, 03:13 AM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT: SOOOO sorry for hijacking this thread Doll... HJ... we maybe might want to split off any further discussion to a different thread? Oh. and if you were also wondering about the E2/progesterone balance, yes, you very definitely CAN throw that out of whack with what we do here.

No problem! I've been away all weekend, so it's good that someone took over my thread for me while I was gone. LOL You even taught me some new stuff. And I DEFINITELY imbalanced my E2 and Prog, which is why I begun taking progesterone cream to rebalance everything. The best way to avoid an imbalance from my experience would be to take maca from the start.

I know people must get excited seeing my growth from such low doses of these herbs, but I do state throughout my thread that my hormones have been VERY imbalanced since high school, and that I am seeing such great results because my hormones are finally balancing out. Hopefully I have made that clear enough to everyone.

In the beginning of high school, I was a very full 32C, and sometimes even fit a 32D perfectly. However, around 11th or 12th grade, my PCOS kicked in, and I not only developed disturbing symptoms such as cramps that almost sent me to the hospital each month, but my breasts also shrunk down to a full 32B. Had my hormones never been messed up, I would have started at a 32D (or maybe even larger by that point), and my growth would have been much slower. This also explains why my growth hasn't left once during cleanses and dieting. Everything I experienced is not a typical result and cannot be expected by anyone.

I believe now that my hormones are balanced, I again need to slowly ramp up my doses in order to find a new dose that not only stabilizes my hormonal issues, but also promotes new growth. I believe I've done most of the natural growing that my body may have done on its own, so the rest of my NBE from this point on will be exceeding those natural expectations.

I may become happy with this size eventually, especially with my new corset in the mail, but will continue with NBE for a few more months to see if I can get that last cup size I've always wanted.

Also, my new VS bra is getting tighter around the bust, but looser at the top. I know at the very least it has already been stretched out in the band (I can hear it sometimes with all the constant adjusting I have to do to get it to fit =_=). I think some of it is also from the fact that I hadn't massaged in two weeks because of how incredibly sore and tender I was. :/ Some of my fullness up top is gone, but regardless, this bra is still a piece of crap. I would never again buy a VS bra and wouldn't suggest that anyone else do the same. My friend got me the $55 bra for $40 with her discount, and it's only been a month and it's already stretching out. I've gotten better bras for around $6. I'm not impressed, but rather disappointed.