Posts: 322
Threads: 9
Joined: Oct 2009
07-03-2011, 09:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-03-2011, 10:04 PM by
Wahaika.)
Hi Anastasia,
I really see where you are coming from, that if someone in that position - of having a child go off the deep end like that, finds out about it out of the blue, puts the hammer down, all of the sudden, out of nowhere, all at once, they will lose their child. I had hoped that I articulated that better in my message above. LovingMum has a very fine line to walk. Absolutely agree with you on that point.
But to be "accepting" or "supporting" for me, is perhaps not the right word or way to go about it if the idea is to reverse the situation as LovingMum stated, and as I would surely feel if in her position. But I'm sure that you would agree that children need to learn a few basic things - that actions have consequenses, and that children should not rebel against their parents or they will both suffer the consequences.
At this point I do need to say that I do not see the harm in pointing out the reality that right and wrong are decided by God, not by any of us. To me that is not bible thumping, it is simply pointing out reality - and I do have a few friends who are real bible thumpers. Trying to reason with them is like beating your head against the wall! I think that religion, no matter how good one may be, can be taken to an extreme and is ultimately counterproductive. But conformance to requirements is part of the reason we are all put here, on this earth, for this short time. There are consequences to our actions, and that is one of the realities of existence. Not trying to talk down here - I'm just trying to make my position understood. Yes, my opinions on gays, transsexuals, crossdressers, etc. are very biassed, absolutely. I would even go so far as to say that all of my opinions are biassed in some way. It seems only natural. When one has done the proper amount of research on an opinion, and then reaches a conclusion, their opinion is now biassed by their research and will tend to be (and should be) harder to disprove. I think it is very healthy, even vital, to keep an open mind so as to learn more and more. This may either disprove or strengthen a previous bias. Reality, truth, facts, whatever you want to call it should be the goal at the end of the day regardless of previous biasses or research or anything else. But when something is well researched, well documented, well proven, whether widely accepted by others or not, it should carry more weight in one's mind than other things that are not. I think that this is natural.
>>"So if I were to be like you, going around putting my beliefs about that certain group onto others, wouldn't you find that wrong?"
No, I wouldn't find that wrong. In fact, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts. They are well thought out and make sense from your point of view, which I understand more and more in conversations like this. Do I agree with you? Not always, especially not on this subject. I think that some of your beliefs are wrong, dead wrong, but I also think that expressing your beliefs is definitely not wrong, nor would I think that it is "pushing" your beliefs.
>>"I speak from experience here...." (Warning: Religous opinion about to be stated...)
-------
Can you see the difference between judging others and simply identifying what is known to be wrong? One can have some attraction to the same sex and still be in conformance with the laws of God. The attraction is not what is condemned, it is the action that is condemned. We are all put here to be tried and tested. For some, that could their test - to have some attraction to the same sex but to exercise self control and not act on the impulse. In other words, a celibate gay, who has never acted on the impulse, is not condemned because they have never acted against the will of God. Further, if he wants to change his ways, there can be forgiveness of those crimes. The way back for some can be very hard, but it is definitely there as a possibility. But in order to do that, right and wrong must be understood and acknowledged.
-------
I believe it at least crosses the mind of many if not all children under the age of 18 that they might have an attraction to same sex. At these forks in the road, they could easily go either way, depending on their teachings and values. But one way is definitely right and one way is definitely wrong. This is a fact, not merely my belief. Can you see the frustration of a parent who is circumvented by a bunch of people who are pushing their child down the wrong path?
>>"So you tell me....Same question but reversed..."
I carefully avoided answering this in my previous post so as to spare this mother from thinking that it is all her fault, because I would have no idea of that. I do not know her situation. But here is the answer to your question: It is two fold. First, my wife and I talked for hours and hours and hours about how we were going to handle certain situations should they arise, both in our relationship to each other, and in raising our future children. I chose a profession that would allow her to be at home fulfilling the traditional role of a mother. I'm not knocking working women. This is just how we chose to handle it. If your interested in that line of reasoning, I can go into that. But the point is that I started spending all of my "spare time" with my children. I played with them and spent time with them from the moment they popped out. I couldn't feed them but I definitely changed a truckload of diapers. I have tried to spend all of the time that I could either with them or with my wife. When she needed time off, with her friends, sisters, etc., I let her have it - and vice-versa. We make a great team if I may say so. The end result with regard to the subject of possibly gay/lesbian children has been eliminated by our design. We followed a known pattern that is thousands of years old and it has worked and is still working. This eliminates the premise of your question. But secondly, and more to your question, let's say that we were taken by surprise. The answer is that it depends on the age. In the case of a 19 year old, in our house where standards are well established and understood, of course, I would try to help. I would do everything I could to try and reverse the situation. It would take time. But there is a difference between a grown child with a problem and a grown child with an attitude of "to hell with you, I'll do what I want." Child #2 would get appropriate time to reverse course and then, as a last resort, if it was obvious that they totally rejected what was right, and if keeping them home only made it worse and enabled the behavior, then yes, I would kick them out. This is because I have already seen this work successfully. They are not gone forever. They may be gone for a long time, but they have been taught correctly, loved, then rebelled. Eventually, when they get more mature (expecting at least 10 years here) I have seen one (friend of the family) return and become a good man - even a good example - even for my own children. He returned later in life (in his 20's) and was welcomed with open arms by his family. (The issue was not gay, it was something else, but his father kicked him out or he may have just left.)
As a military wife, Navy right?, you understand (and your husband would surely understand) that there are some things that are bigger than we are. And even when carrying out a mission, the goal is still for all to return safely. When one falls, he is retrieved. Everyone makes mistakes early in life - and 19 is very early. The boy who is the subject of this thread could pull himself out of it if properly encouraged. But he needs to be encouraged with what is real and works, not what simply feels good for the moment. And if push comes to shove and he is using the home to enable his behavior, then he needs to experience reality and be kicked out, for his own good, in my opinion. It all really goes back to understanding what can be lost and how this can wake one up and they correct their course themselves.
>>"Your type of mentality is why gays and the like are killed, bullied, abused, everyday..."
In this paragraph you equate gays with religous persecution. If ever there was a comparison of apples and oranges, you hit the jackpot. If an opposing force meets no resistance then they advance on you. When a group of people decide that they are going to walk over and kill you, do you just accept them as they are or do you defend yourself? Tell me, are you in favor of self defense? Are you in favor of Sharia Law?
>>"I think everyone should be accepted as long as they are not doing anything illegal, etc.
Really. What if a husband decides that he is attracted to another man and a woman in order to be happy? Should there be threesome by marriage? How about if they decide to include animals? Should they all go to a country where it is legal and do it, then expect everyone to accept them as they are?
Wahaika
