[accidental_ booby]

Actually, there is some misinformation here about grapefruit juice or grapefruit. It was discovered about 10 or so years ago when a Canadian doctor was trying to disguise the taste of a drug and chose GFJ as a mixer. It turned out that the GFJ acted as a booster for the drug. After some more research they determined that a chemical in it inhibited a certain enzyme in the gut which made an increase in the blood of the drug. Cytochrome P450 3A4 is also effected by many other things, caffeine, milk thistle, nicoteine, etc and it actually could work as a benefit because many of the herbs that you use for NBE are also effected by 3A4 inhibition, so if you are taking vitex, it could up the doseage and increase the bioavailablility of the important chemicals.
There are however, about 140 prescription drugs that can be adversely effected by GFJ so if you are on a PD, don't take GFJ without checking with the pharmacist. If you are on BCP, wait at least 4 hours after GFJ to take your pill as the effect, once thought to last 24 hours, has now been determined to last only 4 hours.
I was actually working on a longer explanation of this process and will post it as I get it done. This can actually be a useful tool in the bag of NBE'rs.
I drink it every day with my extracts or pills.
The other thing is, that like anything else, the individual may not see any results from including this drink. IT is all a matter of receptors, enzymes, and a myriad other things, and of course, that goes with NBE itself--some folks may never see anything simply because their physiology and genetics are sort of "tamper proof".
Also, most herbs are very low in dosage and clinical trials often use a great deal more, and then find no results. Red clover , for example,as sold, has about 2.5 mg of active ingredient and clinical trials used 40 to 80 mg daily over a 3 month period. So, you would have ton take 16 capsules a day to match that daily quantity of 40 mgs. Also, it's important to keep in mind time frames. Scientific trials are usually 3 months and longer and when they see no results, it likely means that for us on NBE, if after 3 months there is nothing, then it is time to change directions, herbs, or something.

[itsjust4fun91]

Actually, there is some misinformation here about grapefruit juice or grapefruit. It was discovered about 10 or so years ago when a Canadian doctor was trying to disguise the taste of a drug and chose GFJ as a mixer. It turned out that the GFJ acted as a booster for the drug. After some more research they determined that a chemical in it inhibited a certain enzyme in the gut which made an increase in the blood of the drug. Cytochrome P450 3A4 is also effected by many other things, caffeine, milk thistle, nicoteine, etc and it actually could work as a benefit because many of the herbs that you use for NBE are also effected by 3A4 inhibition, so if you are taking vitex, it could up the doseage and increase the bioavailablility of the important chemicals.
There are however, about 140 prescription drugs that can be adversely effected by GFJ so if you are on a PD, don't take GFJ without checking with the pharmacist. If you are on BCP, wait at least 4 hours after GFJ to take your pill as the effect, once thought to last 24 hours, has now been determined to last only 4 hours.
I was actually working on a longer explanation of this process and will post it as I get it done. This can actually be a useful tool in the bag of NBE'rs.
I drink it every day with my extracts or pills.
The other thing is, that like anything else, the individual may not see any results from including this drink. IT is all a matter of receptors, enzymes, and a myriad other things, and of course, that goes with NBE itself--some folks may never see anything simply because their physiology and genetics are sort of "tamper proof".
Also, most herbs are very low in dosage and clinical trials often use a great deal more, and then find no results. Red clover , for example,as sold, has about 2.5 mg of active ingredient and clinical trials used 40 to 80 mg daily over a 3 month period. So, you would have ton take 16 capsules a day to match that daily quantity of 40 mgs. Also, it's important to keep in mind time frames. Scientific trials are usually 3 months and longer and when they see no results, it likely means that for us on NBE, if after 3 months there is nothing, then it is time to change directions, herbs, or something.

I'm confused about the misinformation part as the point of my original post said it increases the hormone load and other things we may be taking, which is what you just described as well. I do disagree with the idea that drinking it could be a benefit for nbe though. I think drinking something to blindly increase your herb or bo saturation would be unwise as the point of having a program is to find the perfect amount of bo or herbs that work for your body.We should be able to feel secure in our choices of program adjustments that what we take is what we have in us. You would have no way of knowing exactly what amounts of anything you had in your body using this method. Grapefruit would be a shot in the dark at your target, which would be near to impossible to accomplish and more than likely run into ballooning your estrogen load and leading to a lot of problems which we all know is the last thing we want. We may be taking things to acheive NBE, but most of us are trying to do it as gentle as possible on our body with the least amount of side effects. We don't want to end up with our dream boobs, and try and take them out to flaunt them and then have to ruin a good time, by slapping someones face, laughing hysterically, then bursting into tears all in 3 seconds flat. LOL

Mel

[accidental_ booby]

As a quick answer, it doesn't effect your normal hormones because they are not passing through your digestive tract . The chemical in GFJ acts an an inhibitor of a certain enzyme which is affected by only SOME things. In the NBE case, the herbs you are taking have phyto-estrogens in them and since they are metabolized (hopefully) and the enzyme that would normally stop them is temporarily allowing them to pass into the system, that is a good thing. This isn't going to make you crazy and balloon your hormone system. The effect is 28% or so, depending. So , if you took a 640 mg cap of SP, the effect you might get would be like 820 mg, so you could take 3 pills instead of 4.
There are a number of investigations going on by doctors to use this to advantage by prescribing lower doses and letting the action of the GFJ provide the body with the boost--this could be very good especially where very expensive drugs are concerned.
This isn't turning a firecracker into a hydrogen bomb. This enzyme action is what you want in any case and that's is where any herbs are generally going to be processed. Milk Thistle is one such herb that also falls in the NBE column but in reality it also inhibits the 3A4 enzyme and may be allowing something else to work, rather than being the main chemical.
The body has to do some manipulation of these herbs if NBE is going to work. GFJ and grapefruit have been around for a long time and there haven't been any reports of women jumping out of windows after breakfast. As with all things, people should follow what they believe to be the safest course--I'm not pushing anything here, just providing some information that I think is useful.

[itsjust4fun91]

2009 STUDY

excerpt
"Based upon extensive pharmacological research, scientists have established that grapefruit contains natural substances which can inhibit the activity of an enzyme system responsible for the metabolism of estrogen. If the normal metabolism process is affected, the result may be an increase in estrogen circulating in a woman’s body. Since estrogen is a well established risk factor for breast cancer, it is biologically plausible that regular intake of grapefruit can increase a woman’s risk of breast cancer.

We found considerable inter-individual variability between baseline hormone values and hormone values while consuming grapefruit. In comparing results for E1S, the change in hormone values after 24 hours of grapefruit intake ranges from -23% to +74% among study participants. In comparing results for E2, the change in hormone values after 24 hours of grapefruit intake ranges from -30% to +18% among study participants. We still have many analyses to do: to stratify by grapefruit product and to include adjustment factors in the model."
Full study can be found at the link above


Study 2007

excerpt
"It is interesting to note that the study found that grapefruit intake increased circulating estrogen levels in women not taking any hormones and in women who were on hormone therapy. This appears to indicate that grapefruit juice can affect not only the estrogens women produce naturally but those that they take to treat menopausal symptoms."
As before feel free to follow the link above the exerpt to read this study in full.


BBC NEWS
excerpt
"Previous studies have shown that a molecule called cytochrome P450 3A4 (CYP3A4) is involved in metabolising oestrogen hormones.

And grapefruit may boost blood oestrogen levels by inhibiting this molecule, allowing the hormones to build up."