[Lotus]

Well off the top of my head I think you'll be high on prolactin, which will keep progesterone and estrogen low. Btw, Vitamin E opposes estrogen. Prolactin increases inflammation, (stress/cortisol does that too). Reducing stress and over all body inflammation (free radical damage too) is a smart move. Inflammation is a systemic thing, not just a certain body part. Have you ever looked into cellular repair or mitochondrial metabolism?. There's something called the randle cycle (effect) which everyone should read (I mean if you ever get bored, then read it).

Thank you SO much. I'm only starting to learn about hormones. I do have a lot of unexplained inflammatory issues in my body, which no tests or doctors have helped me with over the many years. My cortisol is apparently fine in my last test, despite having chronic fatigue and experienced adrenal burn out in the past. I've just been doing my best with a healthy diet, supplements, and stress reducing activities while I try to obtain more info. Definitely going to read up on these things.

Edit: Just read that vitex helps lower prolactin - so if it does do that, and assists progesterone, it's sounding like the best option.

Yes it does via the HPA (hypothalamus-pituitary axis). It (vitex) increases LH (luteinizing hormone) production while inhibiting the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), leading to an indirect increase in progesterone and a normalization of prolactin levels.

I wouldn't add another HPA supplement (MACA) until prolactin is leveled out.

[seraphic]

Yes it does via the HPA (hypothalamus-pituitary axis). It (vitex) increases LH (luteinizing hormone) production while inhibiting the release of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone), leading to an indirect increase in progesterone and a normalization of prolactin levels.

I wouldn't add another HPA supplement (MACA) until prolactin is leveled out.

Perfect.

Okay, I was just about to ask if Maca would interfere with Vitex. I just started on it today at 440mg. Hopefully this is enough.

I'm trying to come up with a cycle with PM, as I thought that taking them together is probably counterproductive - but I also want to take vitex consistently enough to get results, since I heard it takes a couple of months. I was thinking of taking Vitex from day 1-3ish since I read that prolactin rises during this time, then take PM for 4-15 ish, or whenever my luteal starts, and then vitex again.

Any other suggestions? Otherwise, I'm just going to see what happens. I wanted to take PM everyday for more growth, but I think it's not worth causing more imbalances...

Add maca to your program. POM

Will try it next. thank you.

[pom19]

The reason for maca was for your chronic fatigue. But Lotus knows more about its interaction with other herbs or hormones.

[seraphic]

The reason for maca was for your chronic fatigue. But Lotus knows more about its interaction with other herbs or hormones.

Ah, I didn't realize it would help. I hope hormone balancing in general helps the fatigue, but I'll add in maca when I don't need vitex anymore! Thanks Pom!

[pom19]

The reason for maca was for your chronic fatigue. But Lotus knows more about its interaction with other herbs or hormones.

Ah, I didn't realize it would help. I hope hormone balancing in general helps the fatigue, but I'll add in maca when I don't need vitex anymore! Thanks Pom!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Try not to have it in the evening, unless you don't mind to stay up-
Discover the Top 8 Health Benefits of Super-food Maca:
http://www.noahlaith.com/health-benefits-of-maca/

[Lotus]

I posted a few studies that introduced prolactin and E2 simultaneously, which they worked synergistically (what a mouthful lol). The same is held true about introducing progesterone and E2.

And for that reason it (imo) explains the essence of how the combo birth control works, (2 hormone release).

In terms of a cycle its best to gain back stability, the fatigue is (can be) from an increase in prolactin.

There's other ways (things) to make add-ons but I wouldn't until you get PRL in order, first.

Progesterone and estrogen E2 (together) in-quote-"induced proliferation that resulted in sidebranching and alveologenesis," but E+P treatment produced more proliferation sooner and extensive sidebranching and alveologenesis. The exact amounts of E2 (estradiol) and progesterone weren't given. In other words having progesterone combined with E2 produces side-branching of the breasts (outward growth),

function of progesterone receptor isoforms in normal adult mouse mammary gland.
Aupperlee MD1, Haslam SZ.
Author information
Abstract
In normal mouse mammary gland, the mitogenic action of progesterone (P) is mediated by two P receptor (PR) isoforms, PRA and PRB. PRA is predominantly expressed in the adult virgin, and PRB is predominantly expressed during pregnancy. To investigate hormonal regulation of PR isoform expression and isoform-specific functions in vivo, adult ovariectomized BALB/c mice were treated for 3, 5, or 10 d with estrogen (E), P, or estrogen plus progesterone (E+P). Using an immunohistochemical approach with isoform-specific antibodies, we investigated hormonal regulation of PRA and PRB and their functional roles in proliferation and morphogenesis. Significant E-induced proliferation was only observed after 5 d at the distal tips of ducts; there was no sidebranching or alveologenesis. P induced proliferation that resulted in sidebranching and alveologenesis, but E+P treatment produced more proliferation sooner and more extensive sidebranching and alveologenesis. PRA levels were increased by E and decreased by P. Increased PRB levels were induced by treatment with P or E+P and coincided with the formation of alveoli. PRA was the predominant PR isoform expressed during sidebranching, and colocalization of PRA with 5-bromo-2'-deoxyuridine revealed that proliferation of PRA-positive and -negative cells was responsible for P-induced sidebranching. PRB was the predominant PR isoform expressed during alveologenesis, and colocalization of PRB with 5-bromo-2'-deoxyuridine showed that both PRB-positive and -negative cells proliferated during alveolar expansion. These results demonstrate different hormonal regulation of PRA and PRB levels in vivo and suggest that P can induce proliferation through either PRA or PRB via direct and paracrine mechanisms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?filters=&orig_db=PubMed&cmd=Search&term=148%2A%5Bvolume%5D%20AND%202290%5Bpage%5D%20AND%202007%5Bpdat%5D%20AND%20Aupperlee%20MD%5Bauth%5D

Prolactin stimulates breast growth in the presence of high estrogens, progesterone and estrogen stimulate growth too, and from what I've seen (still needs to be verified) pharma progestins up-regulate IGF-1. However, imo peptides look very promising.




Hormone-Dependent Mammary Gland Development

Hormone-dependent mammary gland development occurs after puberty and results in ductal elongation; recurrent estrous cycles in adulthood trigger side branching; pregnancy enhances side branching and induces alveolo- genesis with lactational differentiation followed by involution at weaning (Brisken 2002). In the late fifties, a series of experiments defined the minimal hormonal requirements for mammary gland development in mice (Nandi 1958) and rats (Lyons 1958). Endocrine ablation was achieved by surgically removing the major sources of reproductive hormones from mature females, the ovaries, which secrete estrogens and progesterone, the pituitary gland, a major source of growth hormone (GH) and prolactin (Prl), and for some experiments the adrenal glands, which release cortisol and precursors of sex steroids (see Fig. 1). Hormone replace- ment in hormone-deprived animals established that additive and sequential treatment with 17-b-estradiol, progesterone, and prolactin in conjunction with cortisol and GH can recapitulate mammary gland development.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...003178.pdf

[seraphic]

That's definitely a lot of info that I can only understand bits and pieces of, but I can get a small sense of how they need each other to produce effects. My E and P need boosting - maybe prolactin isn't a huge villain in this sense, because there's just not enough of the other hormones to compete.

So, to help out a newbie who doesn't understand the science yet... Should I take the herbs together since they could be synergistic? What were you eluding to when you said to gain back stability? Just sticking to a plan before adding anything else in, or?

Anyway, thank you so much for your help. You are awesome.

[Lotus]

That's definitely a lot of info that I can only understand bits and pieces of, but I can get a small sense of how they need each other to produce effects. My E and P need boosting - maybe prolactin isn't a huge villain in this sense, because there's just not enough of the other hormones to compete.

So, to help out a newbie who doesn't understand the science yet... Should I take the herbs together since they could be synergistic? What were you eluding to when you said to gain back stability? Just sticking to a plan before adding anything else in, or?

Anyway, thank you so much for your help. You are awesome.

Sure, anytime. (Happy to help).

Ok I'll just says this about cycling and then let other good people @ BN get a chance to chime in (I don't want to hijack ur thread with confusing mumbo-jumbo lol),

Fix the hormonal imbalance first, then address NBE.

[seraphic]

Right. Okay. That was my hopes in terms of cycling, since I'm not OD'ing on herbs for growth, but just giving my body a little extra of each hormone to work with during their allotted time of the cycle. Since my body needs more of both. Going to take vitex alone for a while first, though.