[Charlie_girl]

Haha! Thanks "Yarr!" ....love it.

[WannaBePearShaped]

Wow those pics! You're boobs are perfect to me!(but maybe Im biased because I like average to smaller boobs)Congrats on the growth!I cant wait to see my growth but alas,its only been a week and half so...Ill just have to give it a month. But I overall,my butt has rounded a bit so Im happy about the shape changing.But I have a quick question,between flax seed oil and avocado oil,which one would be better to use on the butt?

[surferjoe2007]

Yes the dr said that amount too.

Oh! Okay, so since YOU haven't experienced any bad side effects (yet) from those really high levels of fenugreek, then it MUST be safe for everyone? NO. If you take it at the "sky high" or "unlimited" doses you recommend, you're playing with fire. And YES, fenugreek DOES increase prolactin levels. Too much fenugreek (and fennel seeds and red clover) can cause hyperprolactinemia (abnormally high levels of prolactin). http://www.reproductivefacts.org/FACTSHE...in_Excess/

I've breastfed and relactated twice (brought my milk back after drying up) and I know more about all of the aspects of the hormones & herbs involved than my first 3 lactation consultants did, including the effects of fenugreek + prolactin + breastfeeding. However, no. You don't already need ELEVATED prolactin levels in order for fenugreek (or any phytoprolactin) to raise your prolactin level. That's outrageous. But, yes, prolactin levels are high during pregnancy & breastfeeding, especially right after birth when the estrogen & progesterone levels plummet and the prolactin level spikes (this combo is what tells your body to secrete the milk).

You just said it yourself, "it raises what you have". And your statement right before that, " In nursing mothers who already have prolactin then it raises prolactin". We ALL have prolactin. You don't need to be pregnant to HAVE prolactin. So, since prolactin is already a hormone that you DO have, yes, it will raise it.


The normal values for prolactin are:

Males: 2 - 18 ng/mL
Nonpregnant females: 2 - 29 ng/mL
Pregnant women: 10 - 209 ng/mL

BUT, you ARE right in that it has balancing effects. I'm not saying that taking too much fenugreek alone for a short amount of time will cause all those health problems. I'm saying that too high of prolactin levels for too long CAN and does cause those. And too high amounts of fenugreek for too long does lead to dangerously high levels of prolactin. So why risk it?

Shatavari does also increase prolactin, And is also a hormone balancer. I'm not saying that taking high doses of these specific herbs alone or together will send your prolactin levels sky high WITHOUT raising other hormone levels. Again, I'm saying 1- too many herbs taken at the same time that, for the most part, have the same effect, is pointless and too much of, or too many herbs over floods your liver (in general- not just taking these two herbs). Taking these two herbs together is fine. I'm not sure what HIGHER doses are safe and which are way too much taken together over the long term. But regardless, someone doesn't need to take sky high levels of anything, especially 3-5 different things that all elevate the same hormone more than the other hormones.

Just sayin

You could always limit it to the 25,000 mg used in the diabetes studies to be safe. And look up the details on those studies to double check. I've been using them for a couple years btw. There are also ways to lower prolactin if you test high for it.

Some men on a bodybuilding website were using fenugreek extract and had their prolactin levels tested. It did not raise them. I don't think it raises prolactin levels in everyone. I read through quite a few examples before I dared try any because I was afraid of estrogen and prolactin. Not a one had a problem. It would not hurt to get your existing levels tested first though and/or take steps to lower it.

Fennel does raise prolactin btw and huge amounts can be a problem with it, but even then it takes quite a lot. It mostly causes asexuality and possibly lactation.

Anyway you seem to mostly have the right idea. Good luck.

[Charlie_girl]

Wow those pics! You're boobs are perfect to me!(but maybe Im biased because I like average to smaller boobs)Congrats on the growth!I cant wait to see my growth but alas,its only been a week and half so...Ill just have to give it a month. But I overall,my butt has rounded a bit so Im happy about the shape changing.But I have a quick question,between flax seed oil and avocado oil,which one would be better to use on the butt?

Wow! That's so sweet of you, thank you If your butt has already rounded a bit in just a week and a half, I think it's safe to say you'll get some good growth!

Soooooo, avacados are a great healthy fat, so it made sense to me. Fat absorbed transdermally = more fat stored in cells, leading to plumping/growing, right? Right, except avacodo's HUGE downfall. After I touted its awesomness on here after using it for a few weeks, a member informed me of the bad side of avocado oil. And after researching their info, I got bummed & stopped using it except sparingly in my diet. Avocados are considered an antiestrogenic food, which means they contain plant sterols that block estrogen receptors in cells and reduce estrogen absorption in your body. Avacado oil is a concentrated source of plant sterols (much stronger than just eating an avacado). Eating a few slices won't change your hormones really, but I was eating avacados and avacado oil like it was my butt and weight gain miracle food. When in reality, in lowers estrogen, raises progesterone and actually helps with weight LOSS by lowering estrogen/balancing hormones, despite the fat content! Damn! So it makes me wonder how much growth I would have had if I hadn't touched the stuff at all. Also, it has way more Omega 6 than Omega 3, which I don't like. I would advise not to use this for boob or butt growth.


On the contrary, plant sterols are good for your health, but you don't have to consume high amounts for the health benefits. Besides, a lot of food that I have to eat to gain heathy weight contain sterols; whole grain, peanut butter, nuts, peas, beans, Olive oil, Sesame oil, canola oil, Etc. And I refuse to avoid all of these things, especially since I do need some plant sterols for the health benefits. But consuming & using the avacodo oil the way I was, was over doing it.

Flaxseeds contain plant sterols too, I just learned. But I just read that most flaxseed oil does NOT contain the phytoestrogens (lignans) that the flaxseeds do, however SOME flaxseed oils do- it will be stated on the bottle. Flaxseed oil is a more concentrated source of omega-3 fats than flax seeds, but contains only the alpha-linolenic acid component of flaxseed, and not the fiber or lignan components contained in the seeds. It has WAY more Omega 3 than Acocado oil. (in 3.5 oz, avocado oil has 957 mg of Omega 3, whereas 3.5 oz of Flaxseed oil contains 53,300 mg). Flaxseed oil wins over avocado oil for growth.

I found conflicting data on the amount of omega 3 comparison between flaxseed oil & fish oil, although I'm assuming fish oil has more: http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-0001...00000.html
And, "[fish oil] provide about 1 gram of omega-3 fatty acids in about 3.5 ounces of fish": http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drugi...l/993.html

I feel like Emu oil is about to become my gold standard for butt (and boob) oil because of its transdermal carrier qualities as well as the fact that it's pure fat (it IS the fat extracted from the bird after the meat has been harvested), and it contains omega 3, 6 & 9. Omegas are good fats you want, btw. And I dont just mean the normal amounts taken internally for health benefits, I mean topically applied for a bigger butt, hips, whatever.


But I looked at your program page and you said that you rub this on your butt: "Hops Oil Infusion (Hops Powder,Emu Oil and a little bit of Fish Oil)". That sounds awesome! Hops for the phytoestrogens, Emu oil for the fat content and the superior transdermal delivery & the fish oil for fat content. I would consider adding Vit E since apparently it helps prevent stretch marks with growth. I'm not sure about adding flaxseed oil (with lignans) to what you have since it's a phytoestrogen as well as the hops.

Does anyone have any opinions about that?

[peggy]

Flax is an aromatase inhibitor, so don't take too much of it.

Also watch your progesterone level (best to make a saliva test before you start using PC and again after some months). It builds up in the fat tissue and I know some women who used progesterone cream (in their luteal phase only) for some months and after retesting their progesterone level via a saliva test, their level did skyrocket!
For example my friend, she started using USP progesterone cream, because her level was below the range and her naturopath recommended PC. She used a 2% cream and just a tiny amount for 4 month and retested her progesterone value again (same lab). It was not only over the range, it was 4x above the range!! Also before she started using PC her estradiol level was too high and after using PC for 4 month her estradiol level was too low! Many other women experienced the same. So be careful with PC.

Also here is an excellent post about PC: http://curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=1521544

[Charlie_girl]

Ok, thanks Peggy

So, Id like to get my hormone levels checked pretty often for at least the next 2 months, then maybe once monthly. How often do you think I should get them checked now? Like every week?

[peggy]

No, that's not necessary. Also it would be waaaaaay to expensive.
I would test them now and maybe again in 3-4 months.

[Charlie_girl]

Oh. Okay. Insurance covers it so it would be cheap

[peggy]

Do they cover saliva tests? Blood test are not very precise when it comes to measure the active hormones.

[Charlie_girl]

Hm. I'm not sure, I'll find out