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Morose's Program (Tips & Advice Welcome & Appreciated)

#31

Another personal memo to keep track of sensations and progress, both mentally and physically.

The wild yam seems to be working wonders. So much mystery surrounding that particular herb. All that people seem to know is it works for whatever reason. Can't find too much on it through research either. Or it could be just consistently massaging twice a day. I came up with my own, shortened, yet seemingly efficient technique.

First, I get a dab big enough to just cover my index and middle fingers. Then I spread, generously to the breast, going downwards on the inside and upwards on the outside (advice thanks to reading Wahaika's well put together threads). I keep moving in that circular motion, slowly increasing how much pressure I apply as well as speed. When I feel like I'm damn near playing with them, I switch to pulling from the outside in, section by section, bouncing them to sort of "work out" the tissue underneath. Afterwards, I'll switch to gently slapping them, moving in the same clockwise (in 3rd person, not 1st) direction. By now, the cream is almost completely dissolved.

It doesn't take nearly as long as 15 minutes, but it seems to cover all the basic fundamentals mentioned in each massage technique.

I decided to add some hops to the protein shake I've been drinking. When I received the hops, I couldn't bear to stand the smell of them. I kept them (dried flowers if you're wondering...) in the bag it came in, inside the package that the bag was in, and wrapped the entire thing under a plastic Walmart bag. I desperately wanted to add hops to my routine for the prolactin ability it possesses. I don't intend on it being a crucial herb to my body, but I'd like to add it whenever I can.
My first thought was the best thing I could do is grind it up. There's no way I think I could stomach a tea made of them. I searched all the tobacco and smoke shops in town, but I couldn't find a simple grinder for a decent price. They all had special compartments and different chambers... Unnecessary for these herbs Tongue I finally found a mortar and pestle online (cute mini "Witch's cauldron", I call it) and despite having to smell them, it worked perfectly. I now use them in this shake once a day (of course when I'm done for the day since hops are a sedative, yet not too late that my system won't be able to digest the shake first, since its supposed to "replace a meal"). I definitely add a lot more hops than I would for a tea. Reason being is so it doesn't have to fight so hard to get to the bloodstream. (Since most of it probably won't even be digested anyhow.) The flavor packets really help me to disguise it as strawberry-banana or chocolate if I want Smile
Point here is, I'm drinking the hops after the massage so they could aid in the swelling I had just manually caused.
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• I'm still taking fenugreek, but I cut back to 2 pills a day since I'm taking the "Natural Curves" pill right now (if one girl grew a cup size using this, how could I resist?) I could probably go to maybe 3 pills a day, but I'm taking it slower now. I have a few ideas for this coming cycle.
• I starting using fennel here and there again. I haven't told myself to strictly eat chicken for lunch yet, but to do so when I feel remotely in the mood. I plan to become the same way about fennel as I am with the hops in the shake.
• Saw Palmetto will be making a comeback towards the second half of the second week. Definitely going to try to do more walking then too. (Best form of light exercise I could come up with that won't interfere with NBE.)

Excited and slightly nervous to start doing a more 'vigorous' routine..
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#32

Just to clear something up, fenugreek is a phytoestrogen, it contains diosgenin and the isoflavones trigonelline both can increase bust size, it's why I'm going a hunting for some today. I hope your program continues to work for you and goodluck on your NBE journey! =D

I'm so happy to hear the wild yam cream is working for you, a while ago people were saying alot of craziness that it didn't. I'd like to try some some day! Excited to hear about your progress...
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#33

(06-04-2013, 12:42 PM)Emily Loretta Wrote:  Just to clear something up, fenugreek is a phytoestrogen, it contains diosgenin and the isoflavones trigonelline both can increase bust size, it's why I'm going a hunting for some today. I hope your program continues to work for you and goodluck on your NBE journey! =D

I'm so happy to hear the wild yam cream is working for you, a while ago people were saying alot of craziness that it didn't. I'd like to try some some day! Excited to hear about your progress...

Uh. You've totally made that up. Diosgenin and trigonelline are neither one an isoflavone OR a phytoestrogen of another sort.

Trigonelline is pretty much inert and gets passed directly in your urine.

Diosgenin is NOT ANY of the things people seem to think it is! What it DOES do when it enters the bloodstream is it shuts off the negative feedback loops of your endocrine system. Allowing you to introduce hormones well beyond what it'd normally allow before shutting off hormone production.

In a lab it can be used to MANUFACTURE hormones.
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#34

I've heard conflicting information about the action of diosgenin in the body. The wikipedia entry for diosgenin says "the unmodified steroid has estrogenic activity". It can be used to synthesize progesterone in a lab, but apparently it's already estrogenic without any modifications. I could be wrong, but I think any plant chemical that has estrogenic properties is considered a phytoestrogen. If I'm wrong, please explain why. I've been confused about this before because I've seen some plant substances listed as having estrogenic properties and not seen them listed anywhere as phytoestrogens. It could just be that their estrogenic properties hadn't been sufficiently confirmed. I don't really know.

I know that Diosgenin has been tested for it's ability to increase endogenous progesterone, and if I remember correctly, it didn't seem to have any effect. I don't remember if pure diosgenin was ever used in these studies or if they all used herbal extracts.

If it really shut down all or most of the feedback loops of the endocrine system, that seems like it would be a HUGE, drug-like effect, with major consequences. Is that incorrect? Maybe it shuts down one particular feedback loop or widens it somehow. I don't know what's plausible. I'm confused about the basic mechanism of FG, beyond weak estrogenic activity. I've yet to hear a well detailed plausible mechanism for it's other supposed actions, but that doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. There are many theories but they're not supported by much direct evidence. Of course that can't be helped when there's not much research into it's effects on certain hormones.

To be clear, I do think that there is probably something special about FG, but I'm not really sure what that "special" something is. Some people have a put a lot of thought into this, and I'd like to hear their theories.

About trigonelline, so far this is all I've found regarding it's estrogenic properties: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/10/1833.long
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#35

(06-04-2013, 11:49 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote:  
(06-04-2013, 12:42 PM)Emily Loretta Wrote:  Just to clear something up, fenugreek is a phytoestrogen, it contains diosgenin and the isoflavones trigonelline both can increase bust size, it's why I'm going a hunting for some today. I hope your program continues to work for you and goodluck on your NBE journey! =D

I'm so happy to hear the wild yam cream is working for you, a while ago people were saying alot of craziness that it didn't. I'd like to try some some day! Excited to hear about your progress...

Uh. You've totally made that up. Diosgenin and trigonelline are neither one an isoflavone OR a phytoestrogen of another sort.

Trigonelline is pretty much inert and gets passed directly in your urine.

Diosgenin is NOT ANY of the things people seem to think it is! What it DOES do when it enters the bloodstream is it shuts off the negative feedback loops of your endocrine system. Allowing you to introduce hormones well beyond what it'd normally allow before shutting off hormone production.

In a lab it can be used to MANUFACTURE hormones.

...
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#36

(07-04-2013, 03:00 AM)mochaccino Wrote:  About trigonelline, so far this is all I've found regarding it's estrogenic properties: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/10/1833.long

Hm. Well that's interesting, and the first I'd seen of it.

It could help explain in part what's going on with FG.

The way I'm reading that article, trigonelline doesn't act as an estrogen, but rather, increases cell proliferation of receptive cells.

Which, I should warn, and that article ALSO warns, does increase risk for cancer.
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#37

For some reason I thought that cell proliferation was what they always look for to determine if any substance is estrogenic. Is that wrong? Is it more complicated than that? I should do more research into how scientists determine if something is estrogenic. If anyone already knows, can you explain please?
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#38

(07-04-2013, 03:59 AM)mochaccino Wrote:  For some reason I thought that cell proliferation was what they always look for to determine if any substance is estrogenic. Is that wrong? Is it more complicated than that? I should do more research into how scientists determine if something is estrogenic. If anyone already knows, can you explain please?

Not entirely... That's part of it, yes, but the much bigger part is its activity on estrogen receptors. Which that aspect trig appears to have none of. It's only when paired with E2 that it's estrogenic. Meaning it ONLY increases cell proliferation, but is itself not binding to the receptor.

Or at least, that's the way I'm reading that article. I suppose I could be missing something.

EDIT: Though this does mean that my original knowledge regarding that chemical was erroneous, and I'm willing to admit that. I'm always learning new things. It still doesn't do anything that'd interfere with real phytoestrogens though, in fact, this only further reinforces the idea that FG actually pairs well with phytoestrogen.
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#39

OP, I have been following your thread and good to hear you made progress .Would you mind posting pics of your new cleavage ? Smile
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