[Maple]

Hi

I wonder if anyone who uses PM might be able to advise me how they do so? If I didn't know better I would have guessed to take 2 PM capsules and use the cream daily throughout the entire duration of my menstrual cycle. However, I've seen some contradictory information to this. Is it that I should actually start using PM on day 1 of my cycle and then stop after a certain number of days? If this is the case, should I stop massaging with PM cream as well as stop taking it internally?

Also, what kind of massage do you do with PM? Does anyone also use Noogleberry, and do you use it at a separate time from when you do the massage with PM?

One further thing - I've been taking 1 fenugreek capsule 3 times daily, 1 saw palmetto 3 times daily and 1 red clover 3 times daily.
Is it safe to continue taking all these things once I start taking 2 PM capsules a day and massaging twice a day with PM cream?

Thank you!

[AbiDrew85]

Hi

LOL. Hello again indeed!

I wonder if anyone who uses PM might be able to advise me how they do so?

Why cerointainly!

If I didn't know better I would have guessed to take 2 PM capsules and use the cream daily throughout the entire duration of my menstrual cycle.

That would usually be a rather bad idea on multiple levels and it sounds like you already realized this. Yay! Go ahead and pat yourself on the back and start being a little more sure of yourself now. Uhm... That probably sounded rather patronizing but I really didn't mean it that way. I'm just seeing a pattern here that I see a lot and I really do mean it.

However, I've seen some contradictory information to this. Is it that I should actually start using PM on day 1 of my cycle and then stop after a certain number of days? If this is the case, should I stop massaging with PM cream as well as stop taking it internally?

A good way to start off would be using capsules immediately after your period and stop after 14 days and only take ONE capsule for at least the first month. You can try going up to two the second month and see how that goes, if there's no problems I'd suggest staying there for at least a few months before considering changing the doses again.

This is a highly simplified way that merely attempts to avoid disrupting the absolute lowest point of your cycle but doesn't pay too much attention to the complete details. Some benefit from even finer tuning but with the 500mg capsules you've chosen I'd hesitate to attempt it as a genetic female... You could potentially overdose very easily. So... try the simplified version for now and see what happens.

As for the cream... This is a little more iffy. Since it's topical not as much goes systemic so potentially speaking you might be OK all cycle... if you're not too terribly nervous about disrupting your cycle I'd say try just doing it constant at first, if it messes with your cycle, then do the same as the capsules.

Also, what kind of massage do you do with PM? Does anyone also use Noogleberry, and do you use it at a separate time from when you do the massage with PM?

I do not personally do any special massage technique when I work in my topical application of PM extract, I just put the drops directly on my nipples and start rubbing until the wetness/sticky feeling goes away. I kinda alternate a pinch and lift and a palm rub in a circular motion... so a sort of petrissage/effleurage combination if you're familiar with the terms. If not, just google them and you should be able to figure out what I'm talking about. It's kinda my own little technique I just hobbled together based on my classes at school on this stuff.

The petrissage portion benefits include the warming of tissue for deeper work, increase circulation, increase the supply of nutrients and oxygen to muscle, softens superficial fascia, decreases muscle tension, and restoring mobility by decreasing adhesion.

The effleurage portion benefits include warming the tissue and makes it more extensible, soothes an area after deep work, aids in moving wastes out of a congested area(also known as flushing), dilates capillaries and increases circulation, increases lymphatic circulation if applied with light pressure, soothes tired and achy muscles, and creates length in a muscle, if applied with fiber direction, while broadening and stretching the muscle and fascia and provides passive stretching to superficial muscle groups.

And one thing you might be aware of about breast tissue is that it is, when fully developed with female characteristics, one of the densest areas of the body for lymphatic cells. Thus the huge emphasis on cleaning and helping the lymphatic circulation in my technique.

One further thing - I've been taking 1 fenugreek capsule 3 times daily, 1 saw palmetto 3 times daily and 1 red clover 3 times daily.
Is it safe to continue taking all these things once I start taking 2 PM capsules a day and massaging twice a day with PM cream?

Fenugreek and saw palmetto are safe to continue if you have not been experiencing any adverse effects from the sp... though I would suggest changing to spearmint instead anyways because in most cases it works better for what actually matters for excess androgen activity in women. And saw palmetto has more potential risks than spearmint even if it works well.

The red clover should be discontinued. It's a second phytoestrogen source and will compete with the PM.

Thank you!

No problem! I love helping when people actually ask something specific. I just hate it when people go about demanding to be handed EVERYTHING on a silver platter. I had to and continue to have to work for everything I know. The least other people can do is at least respect that enough to do enough of their own legwork to be able to ask something specific. Which you have been doing. And I love that. And so I've been helping. lol.

[loverstilly]

Hi Maple, great question: I'm sure many are dying to know the answers to these Abidrew, thanks for answering them all

I have a question regarding cleansing. After using PM we know that we should cleanse once in a while, perhaps 3-4 months. I do remember reading somewhere that 7 days of milk thistle is enough every 3-4 months. Is that true?

Also, when taking the milk thistle capsules, can we take PM together with it when it clashes with our day 1?


Thanks in advance! Have a great day

[AbiDrew85]

I cleanse constantly myself. Between my massage technique and taking my doses with an eighth cup (coffee scoop or two tablespoons) of diatomaceous earth. I don't bother measuring the de precisely though. There's really no need to be exact with it. And less could probably suffice for most people. If you take a look at my program you'll quickly understand why I use so much and constantly.

Milk thistles use as a cleanse/detox is actually questionable at best and it contains mild phytoestrogens... soooo... I'd suggest trying the dirt. It's literally just pushing a sort of microfilter through your entire insides. Physical action rather than chemical. And why cleanse chemically when there's all sorts of side effects from that when you can cleanse using a physical process? Or two... As I mentioned above, effluerage is a cleansing massage.

[Maple]

Hi

LOL. Hello again indeed!

I wonder if anyone who uses PM might be able to advise me how they do so?

Why cerointainly!

If I didn't know better I would have guessed to take 2 PM capsules and use the cream daily throughout the entire duration of my menstrual cycle.

That would usually be a rather bad idea on multiple levels and it sounds like you already realized this. Yay! Go ahead and pat yourself on the back and start being a little more sure of yourself now. Uhm... That probably sounded rather patronizing but I really didn't mean it that way. I'm just seeing a pattern here that I see a lot and I really do mean it.

However, I've seen some contradictory information to this. Is it that I should actually start using PM on day 1 of my cycle and then stop after a certain number of days? If this is the case, should I stop massaging with PM cream as well as stop taking it internally?

A good way to start off would be using capsules immediately after your period and stop after 14 days and only take ONE capsule for at least the first month. You can try going up to two the second month and see how that goes, if there's no problems I'd suggest staying there for at least a few months before considering changing the doses again.

This is a highly simplified way that merely attempts to avoid disrupting the absolute lowest point of your cycle but doesn't pay too much attention to the complete details. Some benefit from even finer tuning but with the 500mg capsules you've chosen I'd hesitate to attempt it as a genetic female... You could potentially overdose very easily. So... try the simplified version for now and see what happens.

As for the cream... This is a little more iffy. Since it's topical not as much goes systemic so potentially speaking you might be OK all cycle... if you're not too terribly nervous about disrupting your cycle I'd say try just doing it constant at first, if it messes with your cycle, then do the same as the capsules.

Also, what kind of massage do you do with PM? Does anyone also use Noogleberry, and do you use it at a separate time from when you do the massage with PM?

I do not personally do any special massage technique when I work in my topical application of PM extract, I just put the drops directly on my nipples and start rubbing until the wetness/sticky feeling goes away. I kinda alternate a pinch and lift and a palm rub in a circular motion... so a sort of petrissage/effleurage combination if you're familiar with the terms. If not, just google them and you should be able to figure out what I'm talking about. It's kinda my own little technique I just hobbled together based on my classes at school on this stuff.

The petrissage portion benefits include the warming of tissue for deeper work, increase circulation, increase the supply of nutrients and oxygen to muscle, softens superficial fascia, decreases muscle tension, and restoring mobility by decreasing adhesion.

The effleurage portion benefits include warming the tissue and makes it more extensible, soothes an area after deep work, aids in moving wastes out of a congested area(also known as flushing), dilates capillaries and increases circulation, increases lymphatic circulation if applied with light pressure, soothes tired and achy muscles, and creates length in a muscle, if applied with fiber direction, while broadening and stretching the muscle and fascia and provides passive stretching to superficial muscle groups.

And one thing you might be aware of about breast tissue is that it is, when fully developed with female characteristics, one of the densest areas of the body for lymphatic cells. Thus the huge emphasis on cleaning and helping the lymphatic circulation in my technique.

One further thing - I've been taking 1 fenugreek capsule 3 times daily, 1 saw palmetto 3 times daily and 1 red clover 3 times daily.
Is it safe to continue taking all these things once I start taking 2 PM capsules a day and massaging twice a day with PM cream?

Fenugreek and saw palmetto are safe to continue if you have not been experiencing any adverse effects from the sp... though I would suggest changing to spearmint instead anyways because in most cases it works better for what actually matters for excess androgen activity in women. And saw palmetto has more potential risks than spearmint even if it works well.

The red clover should be discontinued. It's a second phytoestrogen source and will compete with the PM.

Thank you!

No problem! I love helping when people actually ask something specific. I just hate it when people go about demanding to be handed EVERYTHING on a silver platter. I had to and continue to have to work for everything I know. The least other people can do is at least respect that enough to do enough of their own legwork to be able to ask something specific. Which you have been doing. And I love that. And so I've been helping. lol.

Thank you! You're a real lifeline for me. I'm new to all of this and really in need of your support. It's an unknown area or me that I'm still learning about all the time! It's a little worrisome how the information that came with the PM doesn't mention anything about stopping after 14 days. Your massage is well thought out and incredibly logical, I'll definitely give it a try! I also use flaxseed oil for massage (but don't take it internally). Would it be advisable to stop this, like the red clover, because its also a phytoestrogen? I'm grateful you put me right on the red clover, I feared that I'd be overdoing it, and playing with hormones too much still worries me, although you say the problem is competition which I also certainly don't want. Do you practice science in your personal life? You're a great advisor. Again I'm thankful for the time you've taken to answer my questions, and the detail you've given.

[AbiDrew85]

It's a little worrisome how the information that came with the PM doesn't mention anything about stopping after 14 days.

I don't know anything about pm uk as I said before... But ainterol at least is originally marketed for and towards and with directions based on post menopausal women for the treatment of menopausal symptoms. Same as progesterone creams. We're using these off-label, so to speak.

So it's only worrisome insofar as if you don't do your own educating you'd be screwed.

Your massage is well thought out and incredibly logical, I'll definitely give it a try!

Please let me know how you like it! This is actually the first time I've even described it at all to anyone. I kinda just put it together for my own personal use and didn't really even consider sharing since there's the whole massage section and there's probably people even better educated on massage technique who've come up with better.

I also use flaxseed oil for massage (but don't take it internally). Would it be advisable to stop this, like the red clover, because its also a phytoestrogen? I'm grateful you put me right on the red clover, I feared that I'd be overdoing it, and playing with hormones too much still worries me, although you say the problem is competition which I also certainly don't want.

If you're using a PM cream to massage then you shouldn't use a fso to massage. Because of the competition thing again You're catching on quickly! See!

Do you practice science in your personal life? You're a great advisor. Again I'm thankful for the time you've taken to answer my questions, and the detail you've given.

Only as a geeky cheek.

I'm mostly self educated and it's entirely hobbyist. I've been to uni in a tech/engineering field and a business field and I've been to a cosmetology school... So yeah... I really am just a super nerd.

[Maple]

Impressive - I love geeky things too ! It's great to meet someone objective!

I'm privileged that you confided the info of your massage with me. If it's been working for you then it's by far as good as any!

Do you think it worth continuing massage with fenugreek after starting with the PM cream? The smell is driving me crazy - unfortunately it's more like curry than maple syrup! I wake up every day smelling like I spilt a ton of curry sauce down myself the night before and never bothered to change!

I've been massaging with fenugreek at night and wild yam in the morning - maybe I should discontinue these?

I've also been taking 3x 610mg fenugreek capsules per day and 3x 600mg saw palmetto capsules. Do you think the current fenugreek dosage in particular is too high to continue along with the PM?

Thank you!!

[AbiDrew85]

Impressive - I love geeky things too ! It's great to meet someone objective!

Haha! Thanks!

I'm privileged that you confided the info of your massage with me. If it's been working for you then it's by far as good as any!

Shoot... Now you're praising me a little too much imo...

Do you think it worth continuing massage with fenugreek after starting with the PM cream? The smell is driving me crazy - unfortunately it's more like curry than maple syrup! I wake up every day smelling like I spilt a ton of curry sauce down myself the night before and never bothered to change!

Honestly... Dunno. I don't massage with anything BUT straight up pure liquid PM extract, which is somewhere around 80% miroestrol and that's it's only real significant constituent though it has other phytosterols as well. It's something like 90% phytosterols and the rest is the solvent, which is a type of edible glycerin - I personally wouldn't trust anything not edible to massage with!

If you don't care for the smell... Yeah... I'd just leave it... It's totally up to you though.

I've been massaging with fenugreek at night and wild yam in the morning - maybe I should discontinue these?

They probably aren't doing much with topical use... They might be doing something, and it's again, entirely up to you, but I personally just don't like "remote maybes" and prefer something more concrete.

I've also been taking 3x 610mg fenugreek capsules per day and 3x 600mg saw palmetto capsules. Do you think the current fenugreek dosage in particular is too high to continue along with the PM?

Nah. If anything it might be lowballing. I've been taking up to more than double that, and in that particular case there's no significant difference between genetics and dosage suggestions.

I DO cycle though, and that does make a difference. Might try going to 4 or just leaving it alone. Either should be fine really.

[Maple]

Shoot... Now you're praising me a little too much imo...

Nah you are full of great advice! Started the PM yesterday but it's been making me a bit dizzy. I thought that a 500mg dosage might be a bit low, but looking around the forum it seems most people who are getting results with it are taking around that amount or less. It must be quite potent!

[AbiDrew85]

Shoot... Now you're praising me a little too much imo...

Nah you are full of great advice! Started the PM yesterday but it's been making me a bit dizzy. I thought that a 500mg dosage might be a bit low, but looking around the forum it seems most people who are getting results with it are taking around that amount or less. It must be quite potent!

Have you been eating at the same time as you take your dose? Even just a gram of sugar might help. It's possible you're just experiencing the insulin response that some of us have to it. Some stronger than others. Mine's VERY strong.