[Fjells]

OK, thanks ladies! So I've stopped taking anything this week. Although I have been drinking about 1 cup of fenugreek and fennel tea per day. I also steeped the fenugreek and fennel powders in olive oil for massage. I just took an empty, dark dropper bottle and funneled a tablespoon of each powder and filled the rest with olive oil. Have been shaking it now and then...hopefully that will help.

Next week I'll start taking fenugreek again, but just one 575 mg capsule every day.

I feel like this might not work because even though I have very small boobs I have a large butt and thighs. Is that possible?

[sair1991]

I also have a relatively very large butt and thighs and its working for me- not that I've measured my thighs or anything- actually I'd never even thought about my thighs til you mentioned that tbh!
I suppose you'll never know unless you try?

[Fjells]

I know, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be a defeatist. It's only that I have been at this for two months already and I see and feel no difference, except for additional fat on my legs/butt. So I feel like it's natural to be upset when other people say they are growing in inches...

The first month I only took fenugreek. Maybe I took too much. I only took one a day and didn't feel anything, so that's why I kept ramping up.

[girlfriday29]

Hi Fjells,

When I first started NBE I thought, great, I am going to grow 0.5"-1" per month. Ok well that hasn't actually happened. Now I know I have to take a much longer term view on this. Now, I am HOPING that because I have the breast sensations this will correlate into some growth. But I know it will be very slow. So I guess my point is, that just because you haven't necessarily grown, in terms of measurements, perhaps what you need to work on first is getting those breast sensations. Worry about the growth later.

Most people when they have taken too many herbs end up stalling, i.e. nothing is happening, they feel nothing etc. So generally at that stage, they stop taking ALL herbs (including teas), for a week or two. This lets your body get rid of any excess herbs, and then you start again. Perhaps that is what you should do over the next week or two.

Thats great that you are preparing the massage oil.

In terms of where you carry your weight - did you see a thread on this forum about body types? There is a little quiz you can do which tells you what body type you are. I am only a couple of inches smaller than you in the hips - I am 36".

I see you are on a vegan diet, perhaps you can explain a bit more about what you eat every day. Suri, has started a very interesting thread about Diet and NBE. One of the general rules of thumb seems to be to stay well away from sugar, and caffeine.

So did you take only fenugreek, one per day, for a whole month?

Whats your BMI?

Also, I should add, that some women don't actually experience breast sensations but do still grow. But I guess you haven't had any growth yet either, only on your thighs etc. Alot of people say that Saw Palmetto makes people put on weight, and gives them cellulite. I wonder because you have been taking a couple of those per day, perhaps that is too much. Did you notice an increase in appetite?

For me, I'm kindof pinning most of my hope for NBE on noogleberry! I hope that over time, my breasts will stretch out.

Yeah, I understand your frustration. I guess you have to be careful when comparing yourself to others. For example, some women already had what I would consider to be large breasts!, and then they do NBE and put on inches... whereas for the smaller breasted ones, it is harder.

Perhaps you could contact Waihaka and see what he thinks about your situation. You will need to carefully outline exactly what you took and when etc.

Hope the noogle arrives soon!

[Fjells]

Thanks for your thoughtful post, girlfriday.

I think it was actually Waihaka's post that gave me the impression that I should ramp up to about 3000 mg of each herb if no sensations were felt at lower doses. He or she had a staggered plan where each additional herb capsule is added per day, one at a time. Maybe it was supposed to be a week or so instead of every day? Maybe I did too much too soon, like you said. Also, it may not have been Waihaka's suggestion, I read so much stuff I could be confused on who it was.

I was taking up to 3000 mg of Saw Palmetto for about two weeks, but last week I went down to one 575 mg per day because I thought I was seeing more cellulite, even though that seems impossible. It could just be that lots of people have reported that with SP, and I'd like to not even risk it! My appetite has gone up in the last couple years. I never had a huge appetite until then. Naturally, I went from 120-125, to 130-135 in the last year or two. I started working out recently. My BMI is 21.3.

I saw the post and took the quiz. I am a Gynaeoid shape. Actually, wow, it says that I may be estrogen dominant, and I'm reading a lot of stuff about that online right now and things are starting to make sense to me. I have had issues with being extremely tired in the last couple years, generalized anxiety, getting completely out of whack sleep-wise, and taking all sorts of sleeping aids just to make sure I conk out by a reasonable time, so that I'm not a zombie the next day. My mom has the same problem. Maybe I should go to an OB/GYN soon?? Yup.

Also, my body shape is nothing like my mom's or my sister's at all. They have very very small butt and thighs, and my hips are much wider than theirs. They have broad shoulders, mine are small and kind of bony. The only woman I look like in terms of body shape is my grandmother, and I have had similar health issues as her--and she had her thyroid removed, I think?? Sorry to ramble on, this is just helping me think through a lot of things. Maybe instead of breasts I should worry about my hormones. :idea:

As a vegan I do end up eating a lot of soy. I drink water, fruit juices (not the ones full of sugar, and I usually dilute anyway), iced tea, soy milk, almond milk. I always buy unsweetened soy and almond milk. I do drink one cup of coffee a day usually, but sometimes go for weeks at a time without drinking any--because I know it's not that great for me. I just love it so much! I try not to drink juices or soda with more than a few grams of sugar, I always check because I have to read labels anyway. I eat whole grain cereals, fruit, vegetables, nuts, pasta, cous cous, brown rice, tofu, noodle soups, soy shakes with soy protein, etc etc.

Thanks for commiserating a bit. It's a little frustrating, but I think I can move on and keep trying different things. I think my body will respond better to the NB, too.

[noella]

I relate to both you ladies! Have tried this more than once, back in it way too early to expect crazy results yet but I don't notice any, I think my temp was lower than I expected.

Girlfriday, I know what its like to see ladies with relatively moderate breasts adding growth, I've seen your wonderful program page and think we have similar body types, thin, AA (probably AAA) breasted (myself). But that makes it all the more inspiring to see you accomplish growth, and I wish you the best.

I'm hoping when my NB arrives it will amp up the process, more frequent circulation. And even if the BO isn't 100% effective, maybe together they'll be more powerful.

Fjells I'm a vegetarian, I lovee almond milk, used to love soy, I buy the unsweetened as well. Your diet sounds nice and healthy, like mine usually is unless I cave. I have dark chocolate chips now and then, I like them in plain non-fat yogurt as a substitute to sugar, least it gives me some antioxidants too. Minus the soy, which I dropped for my BO nbe program, and the fruit juices, very similar. I wish you all the luck to make growth happen for yourself!

[Fjells]

Thanks Noella, I wish you luck as well, of course! And thanks for saying my diet sounds healthy. Glad there is another vegetarian here. And I eat dark chocolate too--maybe a few small pieces a week? I need it.

Ugh, I shudder at doing this, but I took a picture and covered myself up a little bit to show where my bod is at. I think I'm AA-A right now. The NB tubing and and hand pump can't get here fast enough!

[girlfriday29]

Hi Fjells,

I think like you say its very important to understand your hormones. I also think its really important to get in touch with your cycle and generally how you feel throughout it. I was fascinated to find how my cycle affects me on a daily basis and the commonalities that I experience at similar times each cycle, such as mid-cycle pain. I am keeping a cycle diary, where I write in it every day how I feel, in terms of any health issues, how I feel mentally e.g. tired or not etc, and what I eat. I've been doing this for about 3 months now, and when you look back its really interesting. And it makes you feel more in control of your health. At least I know for instance, that day 13/14 of my cycle, I will most likely get some pain, and be a bit bloated. Knowing that, I can prepare for it mentally!, be very careful what I eat on those days, and even make sure I'm not going out partying or anything like that too!

I would really recommend getting a blood test to see if that comes up with anything (alot of times blood tests for hormones may not show up a problem, even if there is one), and a full blood test to make sure you aren't deficient in anything. I am getting a full blood test next week.

I bought the book called "Life without bread", I am getting really interested in diet (obviously not in the losing weight sense of the term!). Even though things like brown rice etc do seem healthy, it may be that you are eating too many carbohydrates which in turn, turn into sugars. So its very important to make sure you aren't eating too much (even if it does on face value seem that those things may be healthy).

I think I also purchased a book about hormones and how to understand them, but that one hasn't arrived yet.

Do you make your own iced tea? I got addicted to Lipton Iced Tea about 6 months ago, and just drank it all the time. But then I realised it was sooooo full of sugar! So I stopped. I used to always drink fruit juice as well, although mostly actual fresh fruit like oranges. But stopped that too because fruit is just such a huge sugar kick.

Anyhow, I did a quiz thing on the internet the other day, it was to find out what kind of metabolic typing diet I have. I got protein. Which means I need to eat lots of protein. That makes alot of sense, because all through my youth, I always ate tonnes of protein, way more than my friends did. Although I also ate alot of sugary bad stuff too, which used to give me extreme bursts of energy and then lows. Check it out on google, here is one site, but there are others with quizzes you can do - http://altmedicine.about.com/od/popularhealthdiets/a/MetabolicType.htm

Oh, and on the diet subject, I was a vegan for about 1 year about 9 years ago. But I didn't really know what I was doing, and I remember I got tired all the time and sick quite alot. In the end, I went back to my meat-eatting ways.......

Hey Noella - yep, its definitely harder for us AAAAAAAAA ones to grow anything! What do you mean about temperature? I'm generally cold all the time! The last couple of days I've been cutting up ginger root and making it into a tea. I hear that helps increase circulation. Should make me warmer!

Oh and Fjells - cool photo. You have nice shape. What I would recommend, if you haven't already done so, is to take photos of the front view, side view, and diagonal view!. Also when you take the photos position the camera at the same place, and stand at the same distance (Note, I didn't do that myself, but wish I had!). That way you will get quite an accurate visual of any growth. Its important to take photos from different angles, because sometimes growth on the sides, you can't really see it in a front view shot, but you can see it on the side shots etc. What is quite neat to do, is to take photos every week (even though there may be no noticeable growth, and then over say 6 weeks or so, put all the photos together, one after the other, and maybe you will notice the growth like that). Some people are very savvy with the computer and have done a great job at that! I've tried to do it, but not very well, but at least it shows how my breasts have slowly grown.

Food for thought! ;-)

[Suri]

Hey Fjells,

you're right, your hormones are the first thing that has to be fixed in order to make growth happen. I think it's a good idea to have them tested. It sounds like you might have a slight imbalance or something and thyroid issues are really serious (if you're in fact taking after your grandma) and should be closely monitored.
I'd also suggest to get a glucose tolerance test done if you can. You drink a glucose solution on an empty stomach and your blood sugar and insulin levels get measured every half an hour. This way you can determine how your body reacts to sugar.
I had such a test done last year and it showed normal blood sugar but border high insulin levels. Since they were just below the upper margin my doctor didn't wanna do anything about it. But it made me research on insulin and glucose metabolism and I learned a lot about diet and hormones.
After a couple of months of researching I came across this site on migraine. It basically said that the majority of people suffering from migraine appear to have a retarded and elevated insulin response or in other words they have a form of hyperinsulinemia and insulin resistance. I don't really have migraine headaches any more but during my late teens it was really bothering me so I soaked in all the information (and there was a lot). It referred to the book "Life without Bread" by W. Lutz which girlfriday mentioned. Lutz is an Austrian doctor who first published his book in 1967 and is over 90 years old now.
He doesn't specifically talk about migraine but about all kinds of conditions and says that some people don't tolerate carbs well and develope all kinds of health problems when on a modern day diet.
He suggests a diet with a maximum of 72g of carbs a day (which is very little). He treated thousands of patients with this type of diet, including himself, and while he says that this diet is not for everyone it can tremendously help many people.

It sounds like your diet (while you cut out most sugar) still contains lots of carbs. This could be causing you some of the problems. To be sure you can have a glucose tolerance test done. Cortisol and thyroid hormones (along with the basic sex hormones) would also be good.

I hope this helps a bit. Btw I opened a new thread to continue our carb discussion from periwinkles program page. It's called "Diet and NBE". Hope that you join the discussion again

Don't lose hope and keep up the spirit. Have you thought of doing a cleanse? Sometimes it's those little things that we don't think of that make a difference.

Oh, and girlfriday, have you read the book yet? How do you like it?

[Fjells]

Updated stats
weight: 131
bra size: 32B/34A
bust: 34"
under bust: 28.5"
waist: 27"
hips: 37"
butt: 38.5"
diet: vegan for 12 years
current goal: 35" bust, fill out the bras I own.

Eh, embarassing but worth mentioning: Noticing an increase in discharge and libido. This makes sense if there is more estrogen floating around. Not worried about it at all. Period was shorter and I didn't get the cramps the day before, although after the first day I had the normal, bad cramps I get.

So it seems like my bust is about a half an inch larger than it was, which is definitely a big deal for me. They feel fuller, but the overall appearance is not much different of course. My breasts don't fluctuate with my period, btw. Also my butt is a half an inch smaller, so it seems. Makes sense because I've been working out, trying to get in better shape, and loving it. I'll 3 or so days a week when I'm up for working hard. 15 minutes of fairly intense stair climbing followed by 200-250 calories worth of walking and jogging on the treadmill. Feels great!

My routine is one 575 mg fenugreek a day, plus the other vitamins I listed in my first post. I massage with cocoa butter, vitamin E, or my fenugreek and fennel oil mixture I made, then I noogle for one hour at a time, at least once a day. Sometimes the total noogling per day will be 3 hours.

As far as my diet goes, I really don't think I'm eating too many carbs. I prefer to think of it as not eating enough fruit and vegetables. So lately I've been primarily eating vegetables and fresh fruit, along with my staples. I do not drink bottled drinks with lots of sugar, nor do I eat lots of white bread, white rice, or white pasta and I NEVER eat sugary candy or cereal. What makes sense to me is to not eat too many processed foods. When I make ice tea, I add a little agave nectar for sweetness or drink Honest tea, which isn't that sugary at all. I don't believe that carbohydrates are to be avoided. Carbohydrates are molecules consisting of carbon and water, and come in many, many structures which are chemically different. There is nothing inherently harmful about them, and I think fad diets like Atkins turned carbs into a dirty word. Maybe Atkins and other nutritionists are using the word carb to describe specific types of food, I don't know? Like the basic macromolecules lipids and proteins, carbohydrates are part of a healthy, balanced diet. Carbohydrates are ubiquitous in animal biology, just like lipids and proteins. That's why you find them in everything, including apples--which are very good for you!