05-10-2013, 11:11
(This post was last modified: 05-10-2013, 11:16 by surferjoe2007.)
Yeah I think this could use some updating based on information that's been going around in these forums and elsewhere.
I think fenugreek, shatavari and goat's rue should be moved to adaptogens. Probably maca and wild yam too, though they may be different. They don't affect any one specific hormone. All 3 give prolactin to those lactating, yet don't make you lactate if you are not already. All 3 have a history of testosterone use for straight males, yet not estrogen nor prolactin in them... unless their hormones are already different. Real phytoestrogens can compete with PM, but these don't; if anything they improve the PM too. It's also good to separate them because AFAIK the more you use the more you benefit, without diminishing returns. Many effective programs use a lot.
Zearalenone is a dangerously powerful estrogen imitator that should not be used. It is not in any clean grains, it is only in fusarium grain mold. Unlike herbs studies have linked it to cancer. It may as well be a street drug version of prescription hormones.
I think the idea that progesterone stops NBE is outdated now that several people have gotten rapid multi-size results from it, especially in combination with a strong phytoestrogen like PM. The theory is that while progesterone can lower estrogen and stop NBE, it's also necessary for you to have any response to estrogen. You need both in balance, not only one or the other.
5-6 grams L-arginine should be added to "Human Growth Hormone". It's in several studies and is the main ingredient of many HGH products. Some other aminos help too but it's easy enough to get the smaller amount needed for them from protein. The best source is turkey but it's also in other meat and nuts. Not so much in dairy nor beans, except soy has a lot.
Omega 3s are in fish but are not complete in flaxseed oil nor any common plant. Flax and chia seeds do have helpful ALA omega 3s but not EPA nor DHA omega 3s. There are some vegan algae based EPA + DHA supplements. Though fish oil may raise testosterone.
I think fenugreek, shatavari and goat's rue should be moved to adaptogens. Probably maca and wild yam too, though they may be different. They don't affect any one specific hormone. All 3 give prolactin to those lactating, yet don't make you lactate if you are not already. All 3 have a history of testosterone use for straight males, yet not estrogen nor prolactin in them... unless their hormones are already different. Real phytoestrogens can compete with PM, but these don't; if anything they improve the PM too. It's also good to separate them because AFAIK the more you use the more you benefit, without diminishing returns. Many effective programs use a lot.
Zearalenone is a dangerously powerful estrogen imitator that should not be used. It is not in any clean grains, it is only in fusarium grain mold. Unlike herbs studies have linked it to cancer. It may as well be a street drug version of prescription hormones.
I think the idea that progesterone stops NBE is outdated now that several people have gotten rapid multi-size results from it, especially in combination with a strong phytoestrogen like PM. The theory is that while progesterone can lower estrogen and stop NBE, it's also necessary for you to have any response to estrogen. You need both in balance, not only one or the other.
5-6 grams L-arginine should be added to "Human Growth Hormone". It's in several studies and is the main ingredient of many HGH products. Some other aminos help too but it's easy enough to get the smaller amount needed for them from protein. The best source is turkey but it's also in other meat and nuts. Not so much in dairy nor beans, except soy has a lot.
Omega 3s are in fish but are not complete in flaxseed oil nor any common plant. Flax and chia seeds do have helpful ALA omega 3s but not EPA nor DHA omega 3s. There are some vegan algae based EPA + DHA supplements. Though fish oil may raise testosterone.