17-01-2016, 00:37
Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007 at 3:00 AM Boobies06 (Login boobies06)
Well, it seems that are cycles are split into two phases. The Follicular Phase (days 1-14) and the Luteal phase (days 15-28). During the FP we're high on estrogen and low on progesterone and during the LP, it's the other way around. So since during the first 14 days my body is high on estrogen, then it should be more sensitive to progesterone, right? And during the LP, since it's high on progesterone, then it should be more sensitive to estrogen, right? That's according to Lucille Sorella, but it's just that I have a hard time understanding her book sometimes. So should I try to consume more phytoestrogens when my body is high on progesterone and vice-versa? It seems to make sense. . .
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 3:05 AM
There's a diagram right here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MenstrualCycle.png
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 3:07 AM
And here are two articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteal_phase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follicular_phase
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 1:38 PM
You may want to rethink your plan. If you fight your bodies basic tendancy, you may upset your hormonal balance and that will not be good for NBE. I think it would be better to support your natural cycle by taking phytoestrogens during days 1-14 and progesterones days 15 - 28. You want to give your body what it is seeking, not interfere by giving it something it doesn't naturally want at that time.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 2:21 PM
I think it can be confusing when we talk about balancing the hormones. When we hear the word balance, we think of a scale where both sides are even. For our bodies, hormonal balance is like a see-saw. When one end goes up, the other end goes down. That describes hormonal balance before menopause. After menopause, the balance is a flat line, but a much lower amounts than before menopause. Don't stop the see-saw because that is what your body needs to function properly.
For example: Let's say you took so much progesterone during your follicular phase that you prevented ovulation. Then during your luteal phase you would not be able to create progesterone. (progesterone is created from the corpus luteum - the lining that remains after the egg is released from the ovary) If during that time you also added phytoestrogens, you could give yourself a bad case of estrogen dominance.
I did this to myself one cycle. I started taking my progesterone cream on day 8 instead of day 12. It prevented me from ovulating and then I had very bad PMS as a result.
mark
(Login sunnyMark)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 2:27 PM
hi waxingmoon, i still find this confusing. how does BCP work then? Are you not giving your body progesterone to stop ovulation?
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 9:15 PM
But it doesn't seem to make sense to add more phytoestrogens when my body is already high on it. Then I'm just making the imbalance greater. I mean, I thought that was why people who are low on progesterone took more phytoestrogens and vice-versa. It seems more logical to try herbs when my body is doing the opposite, that way they're detected more. I mean, I'd have some of both hormones at all times, but maybe I could tweak certain things during the phases. . .
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 1:21 AM
can anybody clear this up?
do i make my program more progesteronic when it's on progesterone or the other way around?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 3:54 AM
Hi Mark,
BCP are not interested in making a woman's hormones balanced. They mimic pregnancy so that there is no ovulation and they make the uterus lining inhospitable to any fertilized egg. Many women have trouble coming back into hormonal balance after stopping BCP.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 3:56 AM
Boobies06,
You may not want to add any phytoestrogens if you have estrogen dominance. Adding more progesterone when your cycle is in that phase would help your body if it does not have enough progesterone to balance the estrogen you already have. This is the basis for my NBE and it is working for me. I have tried adding phytoestrogens, but they always make my estrogen dominance worse.
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 14 2007, 3:14 PM
Sorry for my slowness, but when you say "that phase" you mean the phase more dominant on estrogen, right? So once again, should I not make any changes according to phases and keep the routine the same all the time?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 14 2007, 4:41 PM
Hi Boobies06,
I think your best idea would be to keep your routine the same all the time. Even if you wanted to change your routine according to you cycle, there is no clear cut timing to each cycle. Some women ovulate on day 12 or earlier, some ovulate on day 15 or later. The only thing consistent about our cycles is that our periods start always 2 weeks after ovulation (of course this gets messed up if there is no ovulation).
If you take herbs then take the same things each day. This consistency will allow your body to use the chemicals you are giving it and produce the results better.
If you use progesterone cream however, only use it from days 12 - 28 of your cycle. This hormone will support your luteal phase, but it will mess up your follicular phase if you take it too soon.
You can however take vitex throughout your cycle. Even though vitex ultimately results in greater progesterone in our bodies, the body decides when that progesterone is released, so there is not the same restriction on it as there is on progesterone cream.
Hope this will help. You are really doing a lot of thinking through your NBE and that is a good thing. I know you are not yet satisfied with your results, but hang in there. You will see some changes, but it may take a few months. The more consistent you are with a routine, the more you can evaluate its results. Plan on sticking with a routine for at least 3 months before you change it significantly, even if you have no results.
It takes time for our bodies to respond to what we are doing to change them. I had quick results at first, but now the changes are slower. I think this is due to my hormonal imbalance. Once I have balanced, I believe the changes will quicken. It may take me 3 to 6 months to achieve hormonal balance. One thing for sure, NBE is teaching me patience.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
January 11 2007 at 3:00 AM Boobies06 (Login boobies06)
Well, it seems that are cycles are split into two phases. The Follicular Phase (days 1-14) and the Luteal phase (days 15-28). During the FP we're high on estrogen and low on progesterone and during the LP, it's the other way around. So since during the first 14 days my body is high on estrogen, then it should be more sensitive to progesterone, right? And during the LP, since it's high on progesterone, then it should be more sensitive to estrogen, right? That's according to Lucille Sorella, but it's just that I have a hard time understanding her book sometimes. So should I try to consume more phytoestrogens when my body is high on progesterone and vice-versa? It seems to make sense. . .
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 3:05 AM
There's a diagram right here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MenstrualCycle.png
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 3:07 AM
And here are two articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteal_phase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follicular_phase
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 1:38 PM
You may want to rethink your plan. If you fight your bodies basic tendancy, you may upset your hormonal balance and that will not be good for NBE. I think it would be better to support your natural cycle by taking phytoestrogens during days 1-14 and progesterones days 15 - 28. You want to give your body what it is seeking, not interfere by giving it something it doesn't naturally want at that time.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 2:21 PM
I think it can be confusing when we talk about balancing the hormones. When we hear the word balance, we think of a scale where both sides are even. For our bodies, hormonal balance is like a see-saw. When one end goes up, the other end goes down. That describes hormonal balance before menopause. After menopause, the balance is a flat line, but a much lower amounts than before menopause. Don't stop the see-saw because that is what your body needs to function properly.
For example: Let's say you took so much progesterone during your follicular phase that you prevented ovulation. Then during your luteal phase you would not be able to create progesterone. (progesterone is created from the corpus luteum - the lining that remains after the egg is released from the ovary) If during that time you also added phytoestrogens, you could give yourself a bad case of estrogen dominance.
I did this to myself one cycle. I started taking my progesterone cream on day 8 instead of day 12. It prevented me from ovulating and then I had very bad PMS as a result.
mark
(Login sunnyMark)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 2:27 PM
hi waxingmoon, i still find this confusing. how does BCP work then? Are you not giving your body progesterone to stop ovulation?
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 9:15 PM
But it doesn't seem to make sense to add more phytoestrogens when my body is already high on it. Then I'm just making the imbalance greater. I mean, I thought that was why people who are low on progesterone took more phytoestrogens and vice-versa. It seems more logical to try herbs when my body is doing the opposite, that way they're detected more. I mean, I'd have some of both hormones at all times, but maybe I could tweak certain things during the phases. . .
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 1:21 AM
can anybody clear this up?
do i make my program more progesteronic when it's on progesterone or the other way around?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 3:54 AM
Hi Mark,
BCP are not interested in making a woman's hormones balanced. They mimic pregnancy so that there is no ovulation and they make the uterus lining inhospitable to any fertilized egg. Many women have trouble coming back into hormonal balance after stopping BCP.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 3:56 AM
Boobies06,
You may not want to add any phytoestrogens if you have estrogen dominance. Adding more progesterone when your cycle is in that phase would help your body if it does not have enough progesterone to balance the estrogen you already have. This is the basis for my NBE and it is working for me. I have tried adding phytoestrogens, but they always make my estrogen dominance worse.
Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 14 2007, 3:14 PM
Sorry for my slowness, but when you say "that phase" you mean the phase more dominant on estrogen, right? So once again, should I not make any changes according to phases and keep the routine the same all the time?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 14 2007, 4:41 PM
Hi Boobies06,
I think your best idea would be to keep your routine the same all the time. Even if you wanted to change your routine according to you cycle, there is no clear cut timing to each cycle. Some women ovulate on day 12 or earlier, some ovulate on day 15 or later. The only thing consistent about our cycles is that our periods start always 2 weeks after ovulation (of course this gets messed up if there is no ovulation).
If you take herbs then take the same things each day. This consistency will allow your body to use the chemicals you are giving it and produce the results better.
If you use progesterone cream however, only use it from days 12 - 28 of your cycle. This hormone will support your luteal phase, but it will mess up your follicular phase if you take it too soon.
You can however take vitex throughout your cycle. Even though vitex ultimately results in greater progesterone in our bodies, the body decides when that progesterone is released, so there is not the same restriction on it as there is on progesterone cream.
Hope this will help. You are really doing a lot of thinking through your NBE and that is a good thing. I know you are not yet satisfied with your results, but hang in there. You will see some changes, but it may take a few months. The more consistent you are with a routine, the more you can evaluate its results. Plan on sticking with a routine for at least 3 months before you change it significantly, even if you have no results.
It takes time for our bodies to respond to what we are doing to change them. I had quick results at first, but now the changes are slower. I think this is due to my hormonal imbalance. Once I have balanced, I believe the changes will quicken. It may take me 3 to 6 months to achieve hormonal balance. One thing for sure, NBE is teaching me patience.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon