Natural Breast Enhancement Forums

The cycle and growing
February 20 2006 at 1:02 AM Ally (no login)
Hello everyone!
Can someone shed some light on the different phases of the menstrual cycle? I never bothered with it because I never got my period (maybe once every year - if that). I know that sound kinda dumb, but I really don't know what the different phased are. Anyways, I could just go look it up on the internet, but I would rather ask you guys.

And do you really grow the most during your luteal phase?

(^_^)

Thanx!




Anonymous
(no login)
Re: Sorta Confused...
February 20 2006, 1:52 AM

The "typical" menstrual cycle occurs regularly over 28 days. Most women have cycles with an interval that lasts from 21 to 35 days. Frequently cycles are unusually short or long during adolescence.

THE FIRST HALF OF THE MENSTRUAL CYCLE (Day 1 to About Day 14 in a 28-Day Cycle)

The Menstrual Phase
The first day of your menstrual period is considered Day 1 of your cycle. The menstrual phase includes your period. During this time, the endometrium (the built-up lining of the uterus) is shed, along with a little blood. Many of the problems that women experience with their menstrual cycle occur during this phase. For example, some women experience menstrual disorders such as dysmenorrhea (painful periods) or menorrhagia (unusually heavy periods).

The Follicular/Proliferate Phase
During the proliferate phase, the body produces a hormone called follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH). Follicle-stimulating hormone promotes the growth of a follicle (egg sac) within the ovary. An ovum (egg) matures in the follicle during the proliferative phase. FSH also stimulates the ovary to produce increasing amounts of estrogen. In turn, the estrogen causes endometrial tissue to build up (or proliferate), lining the interior of the uterus.

THE MIDPOINT OF THE MENSTRUAL CYCLE (About Day 14 in a 28-Day Cycle)

The mature ovum bursts from the follicle about midway (approximately 2 weeks before onset of next menstrual period) through the menstrual cycle. This process is known as ovulation. The ovum then travels from the ovary down the fallopian tube, and into the uterus.

The Luteal/Secretory Phase
Once the ovum has been released, the follicle becomes a sac known as the corpus luteum ("yellow body," because it contains yellowish, fatty matter). A hormone called luteinizing hormone (LH) causes the corpus luteum to grow and to secrete progesterone, another female hormone.

During the secretory phase, progesterone makes the endometrial lining stronger and spongy in texture. Progesterone also stimulates glands in the endometrium. These glands produce uterine fluid, and their purpose is to support embryonic development if fertilization has occurred at or around the time of ovulation. It is in this phase of the menstrual cycle that women who suffer from premenstrual syndrome (PMS) may begin to experience their symptoms. Generally symptoms are worse during the last seven to ten days of the cycle, ending at or soon after the start of the menstrual period. In a woman who hasn't become pregnant, the level of progesterone peaks about a week after ovulation and then begins to drop along with the estrogen level. The flow of blood to the endometrium decreases, and its upper portion is broken down and shed during menstruation. At the same time, the corpus luteum withers.

The dip in estrogen and progesterone at the end of the cycle help let the body know that it's time to start the cycle all over again. The menstrual cycle doesn't have to be a drag, it actually shows how complex your body is and a sign that it is functioning properly! Congratulations, you are a woman and being a woman is terrific!



Jam
(no login)
Ally
February 20 2006, 6:51 PM

The fact that you only have one once a year tells you that your hormone balance is off. You don't have to have it every month like most women. Not even every other but you should have it about 4 times a year. (This is coming from my OB/GYN) I am having the same issue right now. If you talk to your doctor you can get put on the pill to level yourself out, or they may put you on a low dose or pregestrin (spelling?) to kickstart your period. Without a regular period you can find yourself falling into premature Menopause (spelling) as i was before talking to my doctor...... I'm only 20. Talk to your Doc. she ,ay find a very easy fix for what you are going through but don't let it sit with one a year, a lot of women say they wish they only had it that often but in all reality to affects are too dire to relly wish for such a thing.

Can someone explain the Cycle
April 6 2006 at 6:14 PM Diz-Julie (Login dizzy19)
I have read a lot in comments here about working things with your cycle.

Can someone kind of explain this to me. What to look for and what the theory is in working with your cycle?

I am familiar with my body. about two weeks after I start my period is when I ovulate. I know what happens to my body at that time, but I don't know what this has to do with BE.

Thanks for your help!




Surf
(Login Surf.)
EVE MEMBERS
per Flat1Fab
April 6 2006, 6:34 PM

Your body goes through 2 phases. Phase 1 is the Follicular Phase and is usually from day 1 - 14 of your cycle. In this phase your estrogen levels are high and progesterone is low. You ovulate on approx. day 12 of your cycle. This trigers the production of progesterone. Phase 2 is the Luteal Phase and is usually from day 15 to 28 of your cycle. In this phase your estrogen levels are low and progesterone is high.

The goals of NBE is to balance estrogen, increase prolactin, increase growth hormone (especially for those over age 30; whos growth hormone is probably low due to natural aging process) and decrease testosterone.

I hope this helps!

Big boobie blessing to all!



Diz-Julie
(no login)
Re: Can someone explain the Cycle
April 6 2006, 6:40 PM

Thanks. I kept reading about it on the sight and didn't know what it was all about.


Julie




unhappy80
(Login unhappy80)
EVE MEMBERS
re: Surf
April 6 2006, 7:17 PM

hi! I read comments on this forum for a week but I nevevr realize this. It is really important. but Imy mind has confused. I didn;t understand 1-14 of cycle and 15- 28 of cycle. Because my english is not good. I will read your comment again and again. I hope I will understand. when should I use herbs? 1-14 or 15-28?
thanks.



Surf
(Login Surf.)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Can someone explain the Cycle
April 6 2006, 8:13 PM

For NBE, you use herbs every day of your cycle. After month 3 some take a break from the herbs for 1 month. Also, some people have been taking a small 1 day break on the first day of their cycle and on day 15 of their cycle. Some people are taking a 2 day break sometime in the month. It really varies.





happy80
(Login unhappy80)
EVE MEMBERS
re: surf
April 7 2006, 8:09 AM

thanks surf! I realized that I don't know too much about menstruation. if I can understand truly, first day of my cycle is the first day of the menstruation which takes 6-7 days. And 15.day is 8. or 9.days after finished my menstruation. maybe I should make a table about what I understood.
1.mens (first day) (give a break)
2.mens
3.mens
4.mens
5.mens
6.mens
7.mens (last day)
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.
15. give a break
.
...
21.
22.mens (first day)
23.mens
24.mens
25.mens
26.mens
27.mens
28.mens (last day)
Did I understand truly?
thanks again.




Lisa
(Login Lisa121)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Can someone explain the Cycle
April 7 2006, 1:53 PM

Hello Happy, you didn't understand exactly. Are you taking a birth control pill at the moment that shortens your cycle? Your cycle is from day one of your menstruation until the last day before you get your menstruation. So, if you get your menstruation again after 21 days then that is the length of your cycle and you would just take your herbs through the whole 21 days OR break on day one (first day of your menstruation) and then again during the middle of your cycle so approximately on day 10 or 11 if your period starts again on day 21.
If you still don't understand it then let us know and I will try to explain it a bit better.
Also you can look it up on the internet and just type in "menstrual cycle" into google and it will explain it to you, you can look that up in your own lanugage and you may understand it better.
Good luck and take care,
Lisa




happy80
(Login unhappy80)
EVE MEMBERS
re: lisa!
April 7 2006, 2:25 PM

Thank you very much. I understood at last. When I read my previous message I realized that I made a mistake. You're right. my cycle length is 21 day. I don't use birth-control pills but i'm going to ask doctor is it right that birth-control pills enlarge breasts?
thanks again.



Helen
(Login Helen_N)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Can someone explain the Cycle
April 7 2006, 2:58 PM

Happy sweety, are you sure your cycle is just 21 days long? As you say, you do not take any birth control pills, so I would expect your cycle to be aprox. 28-30 days. Make sure which is the right length of YOUR cycle (from day one of your period until the last day before you get your next period), so that you can roughly determine the middle of it.

Reading what other girls have said, girls that take or used to take birth control pills, it is not always the same for everyone, but yes, there are some girls that say that their pills made their boobies fuller, but it's not something permanent, I mean when you stop taking the pills you will lose this fullness you had while on them. You might as well ask your doctor and see what he/she advises you.

Take care and good luck with your boobie growing efforts ;-)

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
* Keep up the happy growing! *
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

Love,
Helen x




happy80
(Login unhappy80)
EVE MEMBERS
re: Helen
April 7 2006, 4:55 PM

Yes you're certainly right Helen. I made second mistake. My cycle is 28. Oh God! I'm really really sorry all of you for this misunderstanding.
thanks.

Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007 at 3:00 AM Boobies06 (Login boobies06)
Well, it seems that are cycles are split into two phases. The Follicular Phase (days 1-14) and the Luteal phase (days 15-28). During the FP we're high on estrogen and low on progesterone and during the LP, it's the other way around. So since during the first 14 days my body is high on estrogen, then it should be more sensitive to progesterone, right? And during the LP, since it's high on progesterone, then it should be more sensitive to estrogen, right? That's according to Lucille Sorella, but it's just that I have a hard time understanding her book sometimes. So should I try to consume more phytoestrogens when my body is high on progesterone and vice-versa? It seems to make sense. . .




Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 3:05 AM

There's a diagram right here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:MenstrualCycle.png



Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 3:07 AM

And here are two articles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteal_phase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Follicular_phase



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 1:38 PM

You may want to rethink your plan. If you fight your bodies basic tendancy, you may upset your hormonal balance and that will not be good for NBE. I think it would be better to support your natural cycle by taking phytoestrogens during days 1-14 and progesterones days 15 - 28. You want to give your body what it is seeking, not interfere by giving it something it doesn't naturally want at that time.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 2:21 PM

I think it can be confusing when we talk about balancing the hormones. When we hear the word balance, we think of a scale where both sides are even. For our bodies, hormonal balance is like a see-saw. When one end goes up, the other end goes down. That describes hormonal balance before menopause. After menopause, the balance is a flat line, but a much lower amounts than before menopause. Don't stop the see-saw because that is what your body needs to function properly.

For example: Let's say you took so much progesterone during your follicular phase that you prevented ovulation. Then during your luteal phase you would not be able to create progesterone. (progesterone is created from the corpus luteum - the lining that remains after the egg is released from the ovary) If during that time you also added phytoestrogens, you could give yourself a bad case of estrogen dominance.

I did this to myself one cycle. I started taking my progesterone cream on day 8 instead of day 12. It prevented me from ovulating and then I had very bad PMS as a result.




mark
(Login sunnyMark)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 2:27 PM

hi waxingmoon, i still find this confusing. how does BCP work then? Are you not giving your body progesterone to stop ovulation?



Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 11 2007, 9:15 PM

But it doesn't seem to make sense to add more phytoestrogens when my body is already high on it. Then I'm just making the imbalance greater. I mean, I thought that was why people who are low on progesterone took more phytoestrogens and vice-versa. It seems more logical to try herbs when my body is doing the opposite, that way they're detected more. I mean, I'd have some of both hormones at all times, but maybe I could tweak certain things during the phases. . .



Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 1:21 AM

can anybody clear this up?

do i make my program more progesteronic when it's on progesterone or the other way around?



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 3:54 AM

Hi Mark,
BCP are not interested in making a woman's hormones balanced. They mimic pregnancy so that there is no ovulation and they make the uterus lining inhospitable to any fertilized egg. Many women have trouble coming back into hormonal balance after stopping BCP.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 12 2007, 3:56 AM

Boobies06,
You may not want to add any phytoestrogens if you have estrogen dominance. Adding more progesterone when your cycle is in that phase would help your body if it does not have enough progesterone to balance the estrogen you already have. This is the basis for my NBE and it is working for me. I have tried adding phytoestrogens, but they always make my estrogen dominance worse.




Boobies06
(Login boobies06)
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 14 2007, 3:14 PM

Sorry for my slowness, but when you say "that phase" you mean the phase more dominant on estrogen, right? So once again, should I not make any changes according to phases and keep the routine the same all the time?



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Confused: Follicular Phase and Luteal Phase
January 14 2007, 4:41 PM

Hi Boobies06,
I think your best idea would be to keep your routine the same all the time. Even if you wanted to change your routine according to you cycle, there is no clear cut timing to each cycle. Some women ovulate on day 12 or earlier, some ovulate on day 15 or later. The only thing consistent about our cycles is that our periods start always 2 weeks after ovulation (of course this gets messed up if there is no ovulation).

If you take herbs then take the same things each day. This consistency will allow your body to use the chemicals you are giving it and produce the results better.

If you use progesterone cream however, only use it from days 12 - 28 of your cycle. This hormone will support your luteal phase, but it will mess up your follicular phase if you take it too soon.

You can however take vitex throughout your cycle. Even though vitex ultimately results in greater progesterone in our bodies, the body decides when that progesterone is released, so there is not the same restriction on it as there is on progesterone cream.

Hope this will help. You are really doing a lot of thinking through your NBE and that is a good thing. I know you are not yet satisfied with your results, but hang in there. You will see some changes, but it may take a few months. The more consistent you are with a routine, the more you can evaluate its results. Plan on sticking with a routine for at least 3 months before you change it significantly, even if you have no results.

It takes time for our bodies to respond to what we are doing to change them. I had quick results at first, but now the changes are slower. I think this is due to my hormonal imbalance. Once I have balanced, I believe the changes will quicken. It may take me 3 to 6 months to achieve hormonal balance. One thing for sure, NBE is teaching me patience.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon

First half of the cycle?
January 17 2006 at 11:22 AM Solitaire (no login)
A herbalist once told me that herbs for natural breast enhancement should be taken for the first half of the cycle only. Does anyone know the reason for this advice? It does not seem a widespread idea in NBE but I remember this herbalist being quite definite about it.




SugarQ
(no login)
Re: First half of the cycle?
January 17 2006, 6:27 PM

There are many ways of trying to understand and reason with why a doctors or herbalists would reommend taking herbs half the cycle. at around half way though a cycle estrogen peaks and progestrone is elevated. its beleived that having too much estrogen at this time is just as bad for NBE and having low levels. it prevents growth. so taking any prescription estrogen drugs or herb during the time when estrogen is already pretty high my prevent growth and probably cause some irregular cycles.

For example Mirifem (a pm pill an cream brand) had a pill that the recommeded people take from day 1(when you start your period. at this time estrogen and progesterone levels should be at their lowest) to day 15 (estrogen and progesterone levels should be elevated). after that you dont take any pills until the next cycle begins. Mirifem had Pills with 200mg of Pueraria Mirifica (which is as far the herb with the strongest Phytoestrogens) and you take 4 a day. i dont think its an accident that the makers recommmed this way of using their product. but now they reformulated Mirifem pills to a 1 a day capsule of 100mg and you take this through out the cycle. so that is a big difference.

with other herbs like fennel and fenugreek im not too sure whats the best way to use it. fenugreek is not considered a strong phytoestrogen and there are many women with success with taking it though out the month with some breaks every 3-12 months. other herbs like red clover, licorice root, hops etc are considered high in phytoestrogens. but there is some debate on weither they act like estrogen enough to cause NBE or do they lower natrual estrogen levels in the body. so i really cant say which is the most effect way to take other herbs for nbe. maybe someone like molly with some more background may chime in with some advice but as far as i know you are suppose to take other herbs through out the month.

you can try taking herbs for half a cycle for a 3-6 months and see if you get any results. if not then switch to a full cycle. this would mean that you would have to do more trial and error work with your routine if you are using individual herbs. you already have to do adjustments with dosages which already can take some time to find the right mix for you.now you have to figure out if you get better results with a half cycle or full cycle routine. if you are a person who does trial and error methodically and you give enough time in between changes(2-3 months) to see if those changes make a difference then this will be a very expensive and time consuming method. it can take well over 2 years to figure out that NBE herbs dont work for you. but there really isnt a way to get around trial and error because there is no method or science that can give the perfect formula for NBE specifically for you. this topic is really interesting and members should think about it before they start a routine.

the half cycle routine isnt nearly as common a method as the full cycle so it would be interesting to see if people do end up getting better result with it.

hopefully someone else chimes in soon with another view to share cause im really interested as well to learn more.




prettysoulful
(no login)
Re: First half of the cycle?
January 18 2006, 2:58 PM

Many people have the belief that estrogen and follicular growth are the most important facets to lasting BE. As a result the emphasis is placed on this time in the cycle which is the first half of the cycle. This belief is based on the idea that since estrogen causes the body to store fat, that only growth during this phase will remain, and growth at any other time is merely swelling that will go away later in the cycle or after NBE ends.

Others take a more holistic view of the process. The role of progesterone, prolactin, and HgH is not dismissed.

'Progesterone promotes development of the lobules and alveoli of the breasts causing the alveolar cells to proliferate to enlarge and to become secretory in nature. However, progesterone does not cause the alveoli to secrete milk unless stimulated by prolactin from the pituitary. Progesterone cause the breasts to enlarge partially due to changes in the lobules and alveoli, but also partly from increased fluid retention in subcutaneous tissues.'

For that reason, the whole cycle is addressed during NBE. For some, massage alone(prolactin stimulation) can encourage growth; the same goes for using only natural progesterone cream. Each woman is different.

Personally, most of my growth has taken place during my luteal phase(when estrogen is low and progesterone is high). And except for an inch plus lost during whole body weight-loss, I have retained this growth for nearly a year.




Molly
(no login)
Re: First half of the cycle?
January 24 2006, 8:14 AM

Was it a Chinese herbalist? This idea only seems popular in China and other countries in the Far East. Herbalists in European and American countries don't seem to accept it.

Doesn't it make more sense to stop taking Herbs...
August 9 2009 at 8:21 AM Marie (no login)
Doesn't it make more sense to stop taking herbs that are estrogenic like fennel, fenugreek, soy products, PM etc after you ovulate while your body is producing its own estrogen and progesterone? And start taking them again once your period starts or shortly thereafter while your estrogen is very low.

Common sense would say that these phytoestrogens make our own esrogen weaker during the luteal phase.

So just wondering why most advice taking the estrogenic herbs every day. Aren't our bodies own estrogen and progertone actully much stronger than the phytoestrogens?

Just curious. I rarely see people talking about this.

I say this becausa I had been massaging one breast during my last luteal phase with fennel, soy cream and fenugreek b/c i wanted it to catch up in size to the other breast and noticed that it was actually getting smaller. But these same oils massaged in just after my period seemed to puff me up.

Your thughts?




Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't it make more sense to stop taking Herbs...
August 9 2009, 11:28 PM

Our own estrgen is stronger, but we have many more receptors than we have hormones which is why we can increase total estrogenic actions even with weaker phytoestrogens as well - up to a certian dose. But theory is not so well understood yet, practice tells us a lot more in NBE than theory does and practice says phytoestrgens work.




Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't it make more sense to stop taking Herbs...
August 9 2009, 11:47 PM

Yep, there is an excellent argument for that with one modification. It is done fairly regular with some PM products. However I think that the women who have tried it have ended up with cycle problems as a result.

Try using just fenugreek extract and borage oil to do the catch up.