09-08-2011, 02:13 AM
Hold on ladies im not getting this!!! Ive read that fenugreek acts like estrogen!! Ugggh forreal ppl should I just switch to pm????
09-08-2011, 09:49 AM
Good morning Prettymama and Susan,
Fenugreek does not act like estrogen.
FG increases prolactin (for lactation), so it causes swelling, but real growth follows much later.
FG increases insulin (drops blood sugar and releases some testosterone from SHBG).
FG increases insulin sensitivity (for waist slimming).
If you use fenugreek, you have to combine it with something that increases estrogen:
Wild Yam works well if you've breastfed. It blocks the breakdown of estrogens to 16α-hydroxyestrone.
PM is phyto-estrogen.
Hops is both phyto-estrogen and anti-androgen. It's best if you are young, prone to acne, post-menopausal, or male.
If you don't use hops, you need an anti-androgen. For women, spearmint tea, peppermint tea, or stinging nettle root should be enough. SP is stronger, and more popular on the male NBE forum.
Susan,
I am copying Eve's program, but had to make some changes:
- replaced the soy by maca because thyroid trouble is common here in the sea dunes.
- not using the barley grass: I get too much anti-androgen from the hops already.
- I get folic acid from multis and dark green leafy vegetables, instead of from beremeal.
Fenugreek does not act like estrogen.
FG increases prolactin (for lactation), so it causes swelling, but real growth follows much later.
FG increases insulin (drops blood sugar and releases some testosterone from SHBG).
FG increases insulin sensitivity (for waist slimming).
If you use fenugreek, you have to combine it with something that increases estrogen:
Wild Yam works well if you've breastfed. It blocks the breakdown of estrogens to 16α-hydroxyestrone.
PM is phyto-estrogen.
Hops is both phyto-estrogen and anti-androgen. It's best if you are young, prone to acne, post-menopausal, or male.
If you don't use hops, you need an anti-androgen. For women, spearmint tea, peppermint tea, or stinging nettle root should be enough. SP is stronger, and more popular on the male NBE forum.
Susan,
I am copying Eve's program, but had to make some changes:
- replaced the soy by maca because thyroid trouble is common here in the sea dunes.
- not using the barley grass: I get too much anti-androgen from the hops already.
- I get folic acid from multis and dark green leafy vegetables, instead of from beremeal.
09-08-2011, 01:10 PM
Goodmorning Isabelle,
Wow now that was explained nice..
How are your titas doing.. mine are holding at about 32 1/2, I am gald to be back on PM..makes me feel better
Wow now that was explained nice..
How are your titas doing..
mine are holding at about 32 1/2, I am gald to be back on PM..makes me feel better
09-08-2011, 03:39 PM
Hey Susan, good morning too 
32 1/2 is nice! Keep at it!
Felt shoots twice today, both while active:
05:00 4,000 mg maca root powder in water
06:00 shoots during massage
07:00 low blood sugar: dizzy when I was getting up (is FG too much?)
83.5 kg (had 2 chocolate cornet ice creams yesterday night)
bust 103 cm, down 2 cm = almost 1"
under 97 cm
waist 95 cm
hip 101 cm
one whole meal sandwich (for blood sugar) with cottage cheese and lettuce
light housekeeping activity, office activity
09:00 4,000 mg FG in cottage cheese
office activity
12:00 shoots during 3.5 km (2 miles) walk in the dunes, so FG is enough
14:00 2 eggs
office activity
nap
16:00 no shoots during massage
18:00 beer yeast and vitamin C
19:00 salad ham, cheese, lettuce, tomatoe
21:00 hops in lemonade
32 1/2 is nice! Keep at it!
Felt shoots twice today, both while active:
05:00 4,000 mg maca root powder in water
06:00 shoots during massage
07:00 low blood sugar: dizzy when I was getting up (is FG too much?)
83.5 kg (had 2 chocolate cornet ice creams yesterday night)
bust 103 cm, down 2 cm = almost 1"
under 97 cm
waist 95 cm
hip 101 cm
one whole meal sandwich (for blood sugar) with cottage cheese and lettuce
light housekeeping activity, office activity
09:00 4,000 mg FG in cottage cheese
office activity
12:00 shoots during 3.5 km (2 miles) walk in the dunes, so FG is enough
14:00 2 eggs
office activity
nap
16:00 no shoots during massage
18:00 beer yeast and vitamin C
19:00 salad ham, cheese, lettuce, tomatoe
21:00 hops in lemonade
09-08-2011, 04:50 PM
Im thinkin pm works faster though..what do you girls think about me takin maca,pm,teas,massage?....or I could do maca fenugreek..wy.massage...i kinda like my first plan w pm...
09-08-2011, 05:06 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2011, 05:07 PM by beachbumbythesea.)
(09-08-2011, 03:39 PM)Isabelle Wrote: Hey Susan, good morning too
32 1/2 is nice! Keep at it!
Felt shoots twice today, both while active:
05:00 4,000 mg maca root powder in water
06:00 shoots during massage
07:00 low blood sugar: dizzy when I was getting up (is FG too much?)
83.5 kg (had 2 chocolate cornet ice creams yesterday night)
bust 103 cm, down 2 cm = almost 1"
under 97 cm
waist 95 cm
hip 101 cm
one whole meal sandwich (for blood sugar) with cottage cheese and lettuce
light housekeeping activity, office activity
09:00 4,000 mg FG in cottage cheese
office activity
12:00 shoots during 3.5 km (2 miles) walk in the dunes, so FG is enough
14:00 2 eggs
office activity
nap
16:00 no shoots during massage
18:00 beer yeast and vitamin C
19:00 salad ham, cheese, lettuce, tomatoe
21:00 hops in lemonade
Wow nice and organized..I think your getting close to a nice mix..as for the dizziness.. just a thought ..you had the ice cream before bed (sugar up then down)..hmmm..possibly why you were dizzy..unless you still are then maybe FG.. me too getting more shoots ..
(09-08-2011, 04:50 PM)Prettymama Wrote: Im thinkin pm works faster though..what do you girls think about me takin maca,pm,teas,massage?....or I could do maca fenugreek..wy.massage...i kinda like my first plan w pm...
Hey Prettymama,
how you feeling today..Isabelle will be back later I am sure ..I think her bedtime is like around 5pm our time..anyway..IMO with what you wrote..you could probably do all but in a cycles..PM and maca first half and second half do the FG, WY and teas.. I wouldnt add the teas with the PM (but you can experiment) and it depends on what is in the tea..but IMO..just from experience when you start PM I would just start with PM and maybe just maca but keep maca low dose ..more isnt always better..trust me I did the more is better and I had no feelings or results..then i backed of on everything even foods..this included supps..and I am keeping very simple and I am now feeling and seeing progress just hope it is going to stay in the next weeks..I ve been hearing alot of good stuff also about NB for growth and it is perm..
09-08-2011, 05:58 PM
Hi Susan,
Yes, the ice cream, hadn't thought about that. I have no ice cream today, see if blood sugar is better tomorrow morning.
Hi Prettymama,
Agree with Susan. A little while ago, many people were convinced PM shouldn't be mixed with anything...
Yes, the ice cream, hadn't thought about that. I have no ice cream today, see if blood sugar is better tomorrow morning.
Hi Prettymama,
Agree with Susan. A little while ago, many people were convinced PM shouldn't be mixed with anything...
09-08-2011, 07:09 PM
Ok its official I think im gonna do pm and maca starting next week...and pm massage along w protien shakes..im gonna try.it and by the end of september I will give yall my results
..im gonna try.it and by the end of september I will give yall my results
09-08-2011, 07:13 PM
Well nb is out for me...w a job and my babies id have nooooo time..lol I massage well enough though
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