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Help please! :( Testosterone dominant

#11

(15-11-2012, 00:41)jiberish Wrote:  I didn't expect a candy like product to have such negative effects. But I will quote what I read so you can make your own decision.

"A combination of Paeonia and Liquorice has been used in Chinese and Japanese traditional medicine and have been shown to significantly decrease testosterone in women with defined PCOS and in those described as infertile and without menstrual periods or with erratic menses. Paeonia and liquorice has also been used to reduce elevated prolactin levels(11)."

"Peppermint or spearmint tea has previously been shown to have anti-androgenic effects in rats, and in a small study of 21 women with excessive hair growth (12 of who had PCOS), drinking 2 cups of spearmint tea daily in the first phase of the menstrual cycle (day 1 to day 14 , starting with first day of period) resulted in a decrease in free testosterone and an increase in FSH, LH and oestradiol levels(13). These beneficial testosterone reducing and active oestradiol increasing effects would be important during the first half of the menstrual cycle and spearmint or peppermint tea could be taken 3 times daily, steeped for 10 minutes covered with a saucer to prevent loss of essential oils."

Okay. PCOS is one of those conditions in which a woman could use paeonia, yes. I still wouldn't advise the licorice. It's just too risky.

Yes it has a dramatic effect on androgens. It also has a dramatic effect on estrogens, progesterone, and aldosterone and the corticosteroids. It's essentially taking a sledgehammer to your hormonal synthesis pathway and destroying everything.

I guess I could understand that approach somewhat for some PCOS sufferers, because sometimes that sledgehammer may actually be the only way to go. But honestly... I think there's better. Always.

OP didn't say she had PCOS though.

BTW... There's a difference between licorice as a candy and licorice as a medicine. The concentrations of the "sledgehammer" glycyrrhizic acid in the candy range between nothing and almost nothing. The concentrations of the sledgehammer in the medicinal herbs... Massive.

Buuuuuut...... It is still possible to OD on the candy as well and if you'd like I could link you an article in a medical journal about a guy who ended up in a coma at home and then dying in the hospital from a licorice OD.

It's possible to control the effects and "rebuild" after taking the sledgehammer to everything, but it's very expensive, very difficult, and if you miss ANY doses of ANYTHING or screw up and accidentally throw your sodium through the roof or drop the floor out from under your potassium... or... Yeah. Just please. No one mess with licorice. Except for very very short term use. MAYBE a month at most. Short bursts of a few days preferred.

Some of the "short term" benefits of licorice is that it's a laxative, and it's a diuretic... But please, use it for those purposes, NOT as a long-term anti-androgen.

BTW BTW... You might notice shopping for licorice that a lot of what you find anymore is "DGL" licorice. This licorice is useless for the "sledgehammer" effect, it won't decrease testosterone, it also won't decrease aldosterone, increase cortisol, decrease estrogen, decrease DHEAS, decrease androsteniodone, increase progesterone.... It has as much of the glycyrrhizic acid removed from the licorice root as possible, and most candies are made with DGL licorice any more, and they suggest using DGL where ever and whenever possible for the other uses licorice might have... and the part that makes it so yummy to some people, BTW... It's a pro-aromatase and fat dissolver... And it's NOT the glycyrrhizic acid... So it's still in the DGL stuff. And stuff that's standardized extracted to contain as much of the pro-aromatase fat dissolver as possible? Look for stuff labeled "glavonoid", it's the patented formula containing something like 45% iirc of the licorice flavonoid oils, which is the good stuff.

PS: Anyone else think it's kinda freaky how much I know about this ONE herb? It's like. Whoa there! Seriously though. I had to do a lot of work in order to stay on licorice safely for as long as I did. And even then, I still wasn't functioning at 100% because of it and everything I had to do to keep from going toxic. I do not recommend it.
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#12

Wow! Thank you all so much for the replies!

I did recently purchase Saw Palmetto (Nature's Way, 160 mg, 85-95% fatty acids) except I'm not sure how much I should be taking. I read in a few places to take around 300, so that would be two pills. One girl on here was describing her saw palmetto routine, and she did 1 pill the first week, 2 pills the second week, 3 for the 3rd week, 4 for the 4th week and then nothing for a week. Then started over again. I was thinking of trying something like that.

I also bought spearmint tea, because I like tea anyways and if it can help with my testosterone levels, then that's something I definitely can do.

Yes, I do have facial hair... and just a lot of hair in general... I've talked to my doctor about this and I don't have PCOS. She believes it's the combination of the high level of testosterone and genetics (I'm Middle Eastern).

Again, thank you all so much, I really appreciate the feedback! So, I think first I should try everything to lower my testosterone levels, and then focus on nbe? If anyone has any specific routines/dosages that would be great too!
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#13

I just had a hormone test done & the results are: estradiol - 1.1 (normal 1.3 -1.7) progesterone - 477 (normal 200 - 3000) testosterone - over the limit (no numbers given) E to P ratio - 434 (normal 100 - 500). I am a 62 yr. old female 10 years postmenopausal. I have taken NBE herbs for the past 2 yrs. My intake consists of Hops, Soy, Flax, Red Clover, Licorice, Black Seed, GR, FG, Fennel, Barley Grass, Oat Straw, Alfalfa & PG cream.
I've had minimal growth in the past 6 mo. but have side efects of depression, mood swings & irritalility.
What changes should I make, if any? Is the high T a concern?
Thanks for any info.
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#14

(15-11-2012, 17:38)ittybittytitties Wrote:  Wow! Thank you all so much for the replies!

I did recently purchase Saw Palmetto (Nature's Way, 160 mg, 85-95% fatty acids) except I'm not sure how much I should be taking. I read in a few places to take around 300, so that would be two pills. One girl on here was describing her saw palmetto routine, and she did 1 pill the first week, 2 pills the second week, 3 for the 3rd week, 4 for the 4th week and then nothing for a week. Then started over again. I was thinking of trying something like that.

I also bought spearmint tea, because I like tea anyways and if it can help with my testosterone levels, then that's something I definitely can do.

Yes, I do have facial hair... and just a lot of hair in general... I've talked to my doctor about this and I don't have PCOS. She believes it's the combination of the high level of testosterone and genetics (I'm Middle Eastern).

Again, thank you all so much, I really appreciate the feedback! So, I think first I should try everything to lower my testosterone levels, and then focus on nbe? If anyone has any specific routines/dosages that would be great too!

I do not understand why anyone would want to cycle SP. It's activity is on a hormone that should remain mostly static and low in a female system. It cycles some in a male system, but not nearly enough to warrant a cycling of SP.

320mg is probably a safe starting dose btw. IF you end up needing to increase that, do so slowly, and don't go doing any silly cycling. Just get to where you feel comfortable and stay there.

I'm not too sure on the mint teas really, I'm allergic which is why I had to hunt down an alternative and settled for chinese skullcap... Which I wouldn't recommend to a natal female.

No PCOS.... Yeah. Definitely stick to fighting the high T first, then we can talk about phytoestrogens and pc and deregulators and... the fun "nbe" stuff. If you need any of them at all. Get the T low, then wait a few months after knowing for sure that you've got the T low, and see if anything changes first.

(15-11-2012, 17:42)lostacres6 Wrote:  I just had a hormone test done & the results are: estradiol - 1.1 (normal 1.3 -1.7) progesterone - 477 (normal 200 - 3000) testosterone - over the limit (no numbers given) E to P ratio - 434 (normal 100 - 500). I am a 62 yr. old female 10 years postmenopausal. I have taken NBE herbs for the past 2 yrs. My intake consists of Hops, Soy, Flax, Red Clover, Licorice, Black Seed, GR, FG, Fennel, Barley Grass, Oat Straw, Alfalfa & PG cream.
I've had minimal growth in the past 6 mo. but have side efects of depression, mood swings & irritalility.
What changes should I make, if any? Is the high T a concern?
Thanks for any info.

Egads girl. That plan is uselessly complex. Are you even getting a reasonable dose of any single herb? And the competing phyto's... Jeeeeesh.

IMO, toss ALLL of that out and try something completely new.

Your hormone levels sound pretty much right for a postmenopausal woman, and indicate to me that you might be best served trying a combination of PM, FG OR WY, Maca, and the anti-androgens SP and a mint tea. AVOID any other weaker phyto-estrogens in combination with the PM. You are currently mixing way too many competing phyto-estrogens and are diluting your own results if any.
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#15

Ok thank you so much! I will stick with the 320 mg and spearmint tea, and hopefully that will help battle the high T levels. I will definitely PM you when I get that under control, because I really would like to start working on nbe as well!
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#16

Thanks for your comments & advice. Guess I should have elaborated on the doses - I'm following Eve M's program but added the black seed & GR from Isabelle's program. I tried PM about 1 yr. ago without results (used PM exclusively w/o adding other weaker phytoestrogens). I also tried BO & the Greenbush system. No results from either. SP made me gain weight in my hips, butt & thighs so I d/c'd it. I'm having results from this program for the 1st time in 2 yrs. (albeit very slow & meager). My main complaint is the depression I'm experiencing. Since my estrogen is lower than the normal, I figured the depression isn't caused by that. So (I really don't know) I thought it was from the testosterone. I'm going to add spearment tea as you mentioned in another thread but I hate to start a whole new regime of herbs.
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#17

Okay... I think it's more likely you didn't get results because you didn't have any way to balance your progesterone with the raised estrogen. Part of why I suggested the adaptogens.

I think your mood problems now are from too much progesterone compared to estrogen from the PC cream while not having any real strong estrogen.

Testosterone excess really shouldn't cause anything other than problems controlling your temper.
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