09-10-2013, 07:47 AM
(08-10-2013, 05:12 PM)sweet Wrote: [ -> ]Goat's rue can also be considered.
Yup! Definitely already considering it and looking into it. Thanks for the input!!
(08-10-2013, 05:12 PM)sweet Wrote: [ -> ]Goat's rue can also be considered.
AbiDrew85 Wrote:Soooo...
I'm going to start by explaining as much as I can think of about the interactions of the NORMAL androgen portion of the endocrine systems as they relate to the FEMALE body... Which differs only slightly from a MALE body.
Androgens are produced primarily from the progesterone pathway, but also through a side-chain pathway, from pregnenolone, which is itself also a progestin.
Curiously, it's the pregnenolone pathway that seems to be most over-active in the majority of female hirsutism cases... But that's unrelated to your own case haha. Just something curious that I've come across lol.
From pregnenolone, the 17-alpha-hydroxylase enzyme ADDS an OH molecule, and the 17,20 lyase enzyme takes it away again and reduces the total size of the chain by eliminating the entire bonding site the OH molecule bonded to and an additional unused bonding site. This produces the first androgen in the pathway, DHEA.
From DHEA the 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme, despite its name, further reduces the chain by hydrogenating it and producing androstanediol.
At any point along the pregnenolone pathway the 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme can convert it over to the main pathway, which starts with progesterone.
From progesterone the same process that produced DHEA produces androsteniodone, which, like it's counterpart on the pregnenolone pathway, is the first androgen of the pathway.
The same enzyme that produced androstanediol reduces this chain to testosterone, and as you already know, the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme turns this into DHT.
As you are also likely aware, aromatase turns testosterone into estradiol. What you might not know is that aromatase also changes androsteniodone into estrone and just like the two androgen side-chains, it's 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase that makes estrone into estradiol.
So, now. What chinese skullcap does is it partially inhibits both 17,20 lyase and 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase... So..... We need to be careful, ESPECIALLY in a female system, not to over-use it. ESPECIALLY because while it partially inhibits both of those reductions, it more strongly inhibits 17-beta-HSD...
This can potentially lead to a E1/E2 imbalance. Which is VERY VERY VEEEEEEEEERY potentially bad. As in. Leads to elevated cancer risk bad.
I don't have to worry much because, as a genetic male, and especially as such a damned "skinny bitch" I have very little aromatase to produce ANY natural estrogens with. I would have had to worry if I started off with CS instead of with licorice over two years ago when I still weighed 180 pounds...
But you're female, and judging by your hormone balance, there's NOTHING wrong with your aromatase levels. So... BIG RISK taking too much.
So here's where another facet of the endocrine system comes in to help save us. Sex-hormone-binding-globulin. SHBG for short. What SHBG does is it picks up any left over steroids not being bound to any other receptors and deactivates them, which then allows them to be removed from the body through the normal waste elimination processes.
A curious phenomenon that's not entirely understood WHY it works this way, but it's simply accepted that it does, is that when receptors are being blocked, the hormone that would go for that receptor doesn't even try and gets picked up by SHBG even quicker. And SHBG already plays favorites and prefers androgens...
So that's where the spearmint comes in. It doesn't play with any enzymes at all, it simply just blocks off the androgen receptors, and with the absolutely smallest and least androgenically active phyto-hormone known. Since it's so small and so inactive it both moves through the blood system quickly, and reduces the overall androgen traffic significantly, which makes SHBG have a field day picking up and eliminating androgens.
Now... You actually do need SOME testosterone, so that's why we're going low doses on each. Reduce the traffic just enough to allow for an increase in the estrogenic and progestagenic traffic without allowing congestion to occur while also not reducing it so far that you can't keep up your resistance training.
So... I hope that all made sense! It really did need a bigger picture look at the entire system in order to explain.
(10-10-2013, 03:51 AM)pom19 Wrote: [ -> ]Bravo Abi, well done research.
(18-10-2013, 11:28 PM)timarie Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny cuz I read all the same about keeping the temps high as you posted above, accept for:
(18-10-2013, 04:39 PM)iamsorpor Wrote: [ -> ]"If your body temperature is below 98.2, your liver just does not produce enough enzymes to convert your thyroid hormones from T4 to T3 and Bovine Ovary will not have the desired effect on your body."
I'd need to do research on this, because healthy temperatures for the follicular phase range down as low as around 97 degrees according to some example ovulation charts of a healthy cycle. I cannot believe that they tell us to keep our temps above 98.2 degrees because that is too high for follicular phase. If one has temps that high in follicular phase, they will have thyroid problems, ironically (see: http://www.whitelotusclinic.ca/basal-bod...rettyPhoto ). In thyroid disorders, BBT's will be either abnormally high (>98) or abnormally low (<97). At least, according to the sample charts I have seen. I have been unsuccessful in finding a sample range per phase of healthy BBT's so far It all depends on what time of the day one is taking them, too. If I take my temps in the afternoon, they are much higher than they are in the morning. But, I suppose the BO companies recommend that at your lowest, not to go below 98.2. I just find that really... strange... It just doesn't make any sense to me!!
Thank you for sharing! I will need to follow up on this one now.
EDIT:
Sorry I am hijacking your thread, but I thought you might be interested since we've been talking about it It seems that a healthy range (NOTED FOR ONLY THE 2ND, 3RD, AND 4TH DAYS OF MENSTRUATION) are between 97.6 and 98.2 ( http://doctormurray.com/health-condition...hyroidism/ ). Taking one's BBT's for the purpose of monitoring one's thyroid is NOT recommended during the Luteal Phase and certainly not the first day of the cycle or the rest of the days of the Follicular Phase, since the Luteal Phase's temperatures are determined by one's progesterone levels and the Follicular Phase is determined by one's thyroid, but the rest of the Follicular Phase I suppose is allowed to fluctuate possibly lower (?) ( http://www.whitelotusclinic.ca/basal-bod...rettyPhoto ).
(19-10-2013, 07:26 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote: [ -> ]Actually that doctor has oversimplified a much more complex situation.
Check these out:
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/iodine12345/
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/05/iod...is-part-i/
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/nu...-selenium/
So, I'd suggest getting your iodine tested, as suggested by the first link, though I rather suspect you're low.
IF I'm right, then take:
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-u...-ml-liquid
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/world-org...-oz-liquid
I'd also suggest still taking a thyroid glandular. I take the concentrace btw, but don't supplement my iodine, my levels are seemingly fine.
A teaspoon of concentrace and 2 drops of potassium iodide. Absolutely no more than 4 drops of iodide and a teaspoon of concentrace.
You might also want to supplement Vitamin C, but the way I understand your diet, you should be getting plenty of that.
(19-10-2013, 10:47 PM)tibetan113 Wrote: [ -> ]I was worried about temps being hypo and all. My underweight and temps were low, working against me. But guess what, a little whey and progesterone monitoring took care of that! I grew within 3 months of taking BO. Very surprised.
Even though there's merit in higher temps = good for growth, I think its a cop-out for BB as when a person doesn't grow, they've got something to point out as to why.
"Well, how where your temps? Where they up high enough? Low thyroid could prevent your potential gains."
Well, I'm proof anyway...