(22-04-2012, 12:15 PM)Isabelle Wrote: Thank you cupcake,
Here's the USDA list of isoflavone contents in foods:
http://afrsweb.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Pla...lav_R2.pdf
Ctrl-F "fenugreek" and you will see that it does contain the four isoflavones: genistein, daidzein, formononetin, and biochanin A. In a way, that's richer than soy, which contains only genistein and daidzein. But the content of each of these four phyto-estrogens in fenugreek is ten times lower than in red clover. So for practical use in NBE, fenugreek is ten times less effective as a source of phyto-estrogens than red clover. That's why I call it negligible.
As far as I know, fenugreek doesn't contain any phyto-progestins either. But like wild yam, it contains diosgenin. Diosgenin has been used as a raw material for the industrial synthesis of progesterone. Especially web sites that sell progesterone cream keep stressing that the human body cannot perform the biochemical reaction steps that are necessary to convert diosgenin to progesterone. But there are enough publications showing that progesterone and prolactin increase in humans and other mammals who take diosgenin. That's why I consider fenugreek a source of progesterone and prolactin.
Many people on the forum have successfully done this little experiment: when they got a headache because of estrogen dominance from PM or hops, they took fenugreek and the headache stopped. That is a strong indication that fenugreek restores the balance between estrogens and progesterone.
The main reason for the success of fenugreek in NBE is that it puts on weight while slimming the waist. It slims the waist because it improves insulin sensitivity. Saw palmetto puts weight on the thighs and in cellulite, but with fenugreek alone, without saw palmetto, the extra weight seems to have nowhere else to go but the breasts.
Because technically, fenugreek contains no phyto-progestins, many programs and formulas that need it for the progestogenic effect, combine it with a small dose of fennel. The dose must be small because progestins can cause stalling too. This is also a reason not to use red clover, which contains as much phyto-progestins as phyto-estrogens.
The above does not explain why fenugreek is more successful than wild yam. I really don't know. I explained two other advantages of wild yam here:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=11639&pid=48282#pid48282
Wild yam limits the metabolism of estrone and it contains an anti-androgen. Fenugreek doesn't, so it's always combined with either wild yam or with a source of phyto-estrogens and an anti-androgen. The phyto-estrogens are usually from hops or red clover or PM, and the anti-androgen is traditionally saw palmetto.
Taking fenugreek alone is probably not effective. Fenugreek based programs traditionally have fenugreek-fennel-saw palmetto as a back bone, and add wild yam or hops or red clover. Because hops contains anti-androgens too, the saw palmetto can be dropped.
Great Post with Great Explanations with Supporting Documentation.
From one "Analyst to another" .... hats off .... a "Keeper" in my reference library.
Karen