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My “Brava” program (aka sleep-pumping)
#31

Man, I’m really clogging up my thread with a lot of nonsense, but I have even more to say about my pump and padding. It looks like I might not actually need to replace my Brava pump. I reapplied my blue tac and cling wrap very carefully, using a different technique, and was able to get it much, much smoother. Now it’s finally smooth enough to hold a seal at very low pressure, so it works with my Brava pump, thank god. This is so much better than the camper tape, I’m pretty sure I’ll stick with the blue tac from now on. I’m so glad I can keep using my Brava pump. When it works it’s awesome.

 Reply
#32

It’s the end of week 5 of pumping, obviously not including my 1 month break. I want to keep posting a running tally of my total hours of pumping and my average hours per week.


I only averaged 3 hours of pumping this week due to back pain. I still hate back sleeping, but the cups pop off almost immediately if I try to sleep on my side. The pillows I put under my legs completely prevent lower back pain but I still get some upper back/shoulder blade pain when I try to sleep on my back. The shoulder blade pain got a lot worse this week. Maybe because I was reaching and pulling overhead a lot while taking holiday decorations up and down from the attic. I gave myself 3 full nights off from pumping to hopefully let my shoulders recover.


So far I’ve pumped a total of 240 hours.

 Reply
#33

It’s been roughly 6 weeks since I added  herbs to my program and I haven’t seen any new growth or swelling at all. At least I’ve kept the 1” of growth that I got from my first 4 weeks of pumping, before my pumping break. I’m sure I’ll start growing again now that I’ve started pumping again, but I’m not sure if the herbs are helping at all yet.


I think I should start slowly ramping up the dose of my pm and pc. I might also try incorporating shatavari or goat’s rue. I’m leaning towards shatavari. Mother Love,lactation supplement brand, claims that goats rue increases breast tissue to make their other galactagogues more effective for women who have insufficient gland development. Earlier today I asked them what this claim is based on and whether they could steer me towards any relevant animal studies. (I don’t think there are any human studies showing that goats rue stimulates the growth of milk glands, but I’m not 100% sure). They haven’t gotten back to me yet, but I really hope they eventually respond.


I increased my PM from 100mg to 150mg, and my progesterone from 1 pump to 1 and a half pump. I’ll probably increase it by the same increment again next month, or maybe the month after that.


I forgot to mention this earlier, but the PM i’m taking contains roughly 5 times as much deoxymiroestrol as Ainterol PM. Deoxymiroestrol is the main phytoestrogen in PM, and also the most estrogenic. What that means is that my 100mg of extract is equivalent to a 500mg Ainterol capsule.


I won’t be increasing the dose of my 3 antiandrogens because there’s no reason  to do that. I’m probably already taking more than necessary. I don’t know what possessed me to buy 3 antiandrogens in the first place, but once I’m done with my current supply, I’ll probably switch to taking only reishi, or maybe no herbal antiandrogens at all. After 7 or 8 months of taking birth control, my androgens have lowered so much that my happy trail (lower stomach hair) has magically disappeared. It was extremely dark and thick, but now it’s completely vanished. I don’t have unshaven “before” pics to show you just how unbelievable the difference is, but knowing what a massive difference it made, I’m not sure why I thought I needed to blast my testosterone even further with herbs. It also eliminated my acne, and oily skin, and reduced the growth rate of the rest of my body hair.


I’m still having major issues with back pain from sleeping on my back. I tried doing some back stretches, but so far it’s not helping much. I don’t know what else to do. I may give in and buy a back wedge, but I’m not sure if it’ll help. If the back pain doesn’t subside, I’ll have to go back to sleeping on my side, but that means I’ll only be able to pump one breast at a time. My chest is to narrow to accommodate both cups unless I’m lying on my back. I don’t want to get up in the middle of the night to switch sides, but I might not have a choice. Limiting my back sleeping to 3 or 4 hrs a night might also work. Either way, my pumping time will be cut by more than half.
 Reply
#34

It’s already the end of week 6 of pumping. I only averaged 4 hours pumping per night this week. Again it’s mainly because of back issues. I’m now at 268 total hours of pumping.


I’m still considering adding a galactagogue to my program, but I haven’t done it yet. BTW, Motherlove responded to my question about their goat’s rue by telling me to buy some books about breastfeeding, so they weren’t very helpful.


I’ll update my pics and measurements on week 8 of pumping, which will be the 12th week of my program over all. Wow, I didn’t mean to wait 3 months to post update photos. I don’t know why I didn’t post photos after the first month when I got my first inch of growth. I didn’t post at the end of the second month because I hadn’t grown at all that month. I need to take photos for reference at the end of this month no matter what does or doesn’t happen.




 Reply
#35

I’m still waffling about whether or not to add a galactalogue to my program. When most people on this board say “galactagogue”, including me, what they actually mean is “prolactin secretagogue”. The problem is that those two things are not exactly the same, and it’s not completely clear what prolactin does for breast growth.


The interaction between prolactin and the sex hormones is complicated, and I won’t claim to understand it all, but in some ways they seem to oppose each other. Very high progesterone and estrogen during pregnancy prevent the high prolactin levels from causing lactation, but don’t prevent prolactin from causing the growth of alveoli (the structures that hold milk). Very high prolactin levels decrease the body’s production of progesterone and estrogen, but slightly elevated progesterone levels, can either increase or decrease the levels of the sex hormones in different women seemingly at random. The reasons for the variation in prolactin response between women are apparently unknown, but may be genetic.


More importantly, as far as I can tell, prolactin does not increase fat in the breasts in any way. It only promotes the swelling of breast tissue, milk engorgement, and the growth of alveoli. <meta charset="UTF-8">At least that’s what I think I understood from what I’ve read. I’m not sure how much the increased size of the alveoli actually contributes to total breast size. It could be a little or it could be a whole lot. I really have no idea. There are many reasons why the breast sometimes enlarge so much during pregnancy, and it’s not just because of  the enlarged alveoli.


People on this board used to say that even if prolactin does not directly cause growth of fat cells in the breast on its own, it somehow “tells” estrogen and/or phytoestrogens to increase body fat mainly in the breasts rather than in the hips, thighs and tummy. But I can’t figure out where they got that idea, and so far I haven’t been able to find any evidence that it’s true. Everything I’ve read so far seems to imply that high prolactin levels increase visceral fat (fat under the abs, around the organs). In other words, prolactin actually seems to promote androgenic (masculine) fat distribution.


Another thing that makes me hesitant is that many NBE herbs that people think of as galactagogues may not increase breast milk by increasing prolactin, and some might not even really be effective galactagogues at all. That doesn’t mean that they don’t work for NBE, it just means that their effectiveness is not necessarily proof that high prolactin levels are good for NBE.


This issue is even more complicated by the fact that some popular, and apparently effective, programs such as “Grow Yours” (a massage only program) focus only on increasing prolactin in order to cause temporary swelling, alveoli development, and mild milk engorgement. The creator of the program freely admits that the results are only temporary unless you are willing to continue with regular massages for the rest of your life. If you’re following a prolactin-focused program, then a drop in estrogen or progesterone may not interfere with breast enlargement, and using too many strong phytoestrogens might actually prevent the program from working, assuming that mild milk engorgement is really the main goal of the program.



 Reply
#36

I was doing random searches related to pumping and I came across Missmadscientist’s old thread about pumping pressure values:

https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27856&pid=196175#pid196175


All vacuum therapy is based on the studies done on negative pressure wound therapy (NPWT), where the vacuum is used to drain the wound and stimulate growth of granulation tissue. In her thread above, Missmadscientist says that multiple studies have shown that roughly 125mmhg is the best pressure for growth of granulation tissue (and hopefully other types of tissue). I’ve seen her thread about negative pressure before and I don’t know why it never occurred to me to compare the “ideal” npwt pressure to the pressure used by Brava. For some reason I have always just assumed that Brava was using whatever pressure is commonly used  for NWPT, because their system is based on that concept and the earliest models of Brava used real NWPT pumps. Actually Brava’s pump is designed to maintain a relatively even pressure between 15mmhg and 35mmhg.


For the sake of simplicity I’ll assume that the Brava pump maintains a pressure of 25mmhg for most of the night. That means  that it’s only producing 1/5th of the ideal pressure. I assume Brava decided to use this pressure because they wanted to prioritize comfort over growth. I saw a study that directly compares 25mmhg to 125mmhg. The higher pressure caused the granulation tissue to grow about five times faster than the tissue under lower pressure. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it would cause breast tissue to grow 5 times faster, but it seems possible. The same study also said that variable or intermittent pressure, the kind produced by nursing pumps, causes faster growth than continuous pressure, the kind produced by the Brava Pump.


Those are the main reasons I’m strongly considering switching to the Ardo Calypso nursing pump that I mentioned earlier in this thread, but there are even more reasons. My Brava pump, which used to be extremely quiet, has suddenly become a lot louder which makes me worried that it’s already breaking down. It’s a used pump, and Brava pumps are notorious for breaking down after 1 or 2 “cycles”. A Brava “cycle” is 700 hours, and 1400 hours sounds like a pretty decent lifespan for a pump, so I’m not saying thar the pump is poorly made. On the other hand, the Brava pump cost about 150 to 200 dollars, while a used Ardo Calypso pump only costs 30-40 dollars if you only buy the pump without any of the unnecessary nursing accessories. If I’m going to have to replace the pump every 3 to 5 months, I’m not going to pay hundreds each time. Another thing I’m worried about is the possibility of the Brava pump breaking during a session and injuring me. Sometimes when a Brava pump breaks it just shuts off and never turns back on, but other times the pressure sensor fails and the pump just keep pumping until it causes injury, unless you can wake up in time to disconnect it. I don’t know if I should switch to the Ardo pump right away to avoid that possibility.


I’m also planning on making some yoga mat padding rings, because my blue tac padding works ok but it’s nowhere near soft enough to use at a higher pressure. I’ve tried making yoga mat padding before but I couldn’t create a seal because the mat was waaay to thick and spongey. Nowadays I know better, so I’ll use a much thinner and denser mat. I read over on the noogleberry forum that 6 to 8mm thick is the sweet spot for maximum comfort without compromising your ability to create a seal.

 Reply
#37

(05-12-2020, 12:41 PM)ShelaVenna Wrote:

I was doing random searches related to pumping and I came across Missmadscientist’s old thread about pumping pressure values:

https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27856&pid=196175#pid196175


All vacuum therapy is based on the studies done on negative pressure wound therapy (NPWT), where the vacuum is used to drain the wound and stimulate growth of granulation tissue. In her thread above, Missmadscientist says that multiple studies have shown that roughly 125mmhg is the best pressure for growth of granulation tissue (and hopefully other types of tissue). I’ve seen her thread about negative pressure before and I don’t know why it never occurred to me to compare the “ideal” npwt pressure to the pressure used by Brava. For some reason I have always just assumed that Brava was using whatever pressure is commonly used  for NWPT, because their system is based on that concept and the earliest models of Brava used real NWPT pumps. Actually Brava’s pump is designed to maintain a relatively even pressure between 15mmhg and 35mmhg.


For the sake of simplicity I’ll assume that the Brava pump maintains a pressure of 25mmhg for most of the night. That means  that it’s only producing 1/5th of the ideal pressure. I assume Brava decided to use this pressure because they wanted to prioritize comfort over growth. I saw a study that directly compares 25mmhg to 125mmhg. The higher pressure caused the granulation tissue to grow about five times faster than the tissue under lower pressure. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it would cause breast tissue to grow 5 times faster, but it seems possible. The same study also said that variable or intermittent pressure, the kind produced by nursing pumps, causes faster growth than continuous pressure, the kind produced by the Brava Pump.


Those are the main reasons I’m strongly considering switching to the Ardo Calypso nursing pump that I mentioned earlier in this thread, but there are even more reasons. My Brava pump, which used to be extremely quiet, has suddenly become a lot louder which makes me worried that it’s already breaking down. It’s a used pump, and Brava pumps are notorious for breaking down after 1 or 2 “cycles”. A Brava “cycle” is 700 hours, and 1400 hours sounds like a pretty decent lifespan for a pump, so I’m not saying thar the pump is poorly made. On the other hand, the Brava pump cost about 150 to 200 dollars, while a used Ardo Calypso pump only costs 30-40 dollars if you only buy the pump without any of the unnecessary nursing accessories. If I’m going to have to replace the pump every 3 to 5 months, I’m not going to pay hundreds each time. Another thing I’m worried about is the possibility of the Brava pump breaking during a session and injuring me. Sometimes when a Brava pump breaks it just shuts off and never turns back on, but other times the pressure sensor fails and the pump just keep pumping until it causes injury, unless you can wake up in time to disconnect it. I don’t know if I should switch to the Ardo pump right away to avoid that possibility.


I’m also planning on making some yoga mat padding rings, because my blue tac padding works ok but it’s nowhere near soft enough to use at a higher pressure. I’ve tried making yoga mat padding before but I couldn’t create a seal because the mat was waaay to thick and spongey. Nowadays I know better, so I’ll use a much thinner and denser mat. I read over on the noogleberry forum that 6 to 8mm thick is the sweet spot for maximum comfort without compromising your ability to create a seal.




Hey girl!

Question: How could you make the Calypso pump work for the domes? <3

 Reply
#38

(05-12-2020, 05:18 PM)SweetO Wrote:

(05-12-2020, 12:41 PM)ShelaVenna Wrote:

I was doing random searches related to pumping and I came across Missmadscientist’s old thread about pumping pressure values:

https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27856&pid=196175#pid196175


All vacuum therapy is based on the studies done on negative pressure wound therapy (NPWT), where the vacuum is used to drain the wound and stimulate growth of granulation tissue. In her thread above, Missmadscientist says that multiple studies have shown that roughly 125mmhg is the best pressure for growth of granulation tissue (and hopefully other types of tissue). I’ve seen her thread about negative pressure before and I don’t know why it never occurred to me to compare the “ideal” npwt pressure to the pressure used by Brava. For some reason I have always just assumed that Brava was using whatever pressure is commonly used  for NWPT, because their system is based on that concept and the earliest models of Brava used real NWPT pumps. Actually Brava’s pump is designed to maintain a relatively even pressure between 15mmhg and 35mmhg.


For the sake of simplicity I’ll assume that the Brava pump maintains a pressure of 25mmhg for most of the night. That means  that it’s only producing 1/5th of the ideal pressure. I assume Brava decided to use this pressure because they wanted to prioritize comfort over growth. I saw a study that directly compares 25mmhg to 125mmhg. The higher pressure caused the granulation tissue to grow about five times faster than the tissue under lower pressure. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it would cause breast tissue to grow 5 times faster, but it seems possible. The same study also said that variable or intermittent pressure, the kind produced by nursing pumps, causes faster growth than continuous pressure, the kind produced by the Brava Pump.


Those are the main reasons I’m strongly considering switching to the Ardo Calypso nursing pump that I mentioned earlier in this thread, but there are even more reasons. My Brava pump, which used to be extremely quiet, has suddenly become a lot louder which makes me worried that it’s already breaking down. It’s a used pump, and Brava pumps are notorious for breaking down after 1 or 2 “cycles”. A Brava “cycle” is 700 hours, and 1400 hours sounds like a pretty decent lifespan for a pump, so I’m not saying thar the pump is poorly made. On the other hand, the Brava pump cost about 150 to 200 dollars, while a used Ardo Calypso pump only costs 30-40 dollars if you only buy the pump without any of the unnecessary nursing accessories. If I’m going to have to replace the pump every 3 to 5 months, I’m not going to pay hundreds each time. Another thing I’m worried about is the possibility of the Brava pump breaking during a session and injuring me. Sometimes when a Brava pump breaks it just shuts off and never turns back on, but other times the pressure sensor fails and the pump just keep pumping until it causes injury, unless you can wake up in time to disconnect it. I don’t know if I should switch to the Ardo pump right away to avoid that possibility.


I’m also planning on making some yoga mat padding rings, because my blue tac padding works ok but it’s nowhere near soft enough to use at a higher pressure. I’ve tried making yoga mat padding before but I couldn’t create a seal because the mat was waaay to thick and spongey. Nowadays I know better, so I’ll use a much thinner and denser mat. I read over on the noogleberry forum that 6 to 8mm thick is the sweet spot for maximum comfort without compromising your ability to create a seal.




Hey girl!

Question: How could you make the Calypso pump work for the domes? <3




Just put domes where the nipple flange thingies would normally go. I don’t know if it will fit my tubing, but there are connectors that can make it fit, assuming I can figure out which size connectors to buy.

 Reply
#39

(05-12-2020, 09:08 PM)ShelaVenna Wrote:

(05-12-2020, 05:18 PM)SweetO Wrote:

(05-12-2020, 12:41 PM)ShelaVenna Wrote:

I was doing random searches related to pumping and I came across Missmadscientist’s old thread about pumping pressure values:

https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27856&pid=196175#pid196175


All vacuum therapy is based on the studies done on negative pressure wound therapy (NPWT), where the vacuum is used to drain the wound and stimulate growth of granulation tissue. In her thread above, Missmadscientist says that multiple studies have shown that roughly 125mmhg is the best pressure for growth of granulation tissue (and hopefully other types of tissue). I’ve seen her thread about negative pressure before and I don’t know why it never occurred to me to compare the “ideal” npwt pressure to the pressure used by Brava. For some reason I have always just assumed that Brava was using whatever pressure is commonly used  for NWPT, because their system is based on that concept and the earliest models of Brava used real NWPT pumps. Actually Brava’s pump is designed to maintain a relatively even pressure between 15mmhg and 35mmhg.


For the sake of simplicity I’ll assume that the Brava pump maintains a pressure of 25mmhg for most of the night. That means  that it’s only producing 1/5th of the ideal pressure. I assume Brava decided to use this pressure because they wanted to prioritize comfort over growth. I saw a study that directly compares 25mmhg to 125mmhg. The higher pressure caused the granulation tissue to grow about five times faster than the tissue under lower pressure. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it would cause breast tissue to grow 5 times faster, but it seems possible. The same study also said that variable or intermittent pressure, the kind produced by nursing pumps, causes faster growth than continuous pressure, the kind produced by the Brava Pump.


Those are the main reasons I’m strongly considering switching to the Ardo Calypso nursing pump that I mentioned earlier in this thread, but there are even more reasons. My Brava pump, which used to be extremely quiet, has suddenly become a lot louder which makes me worried that it’s already breaking down. It’s a used pump, and Brava pumps are notorious for breaking down after 1 or 2 “cycles”. A Brava “cycle” is 700 hours, and 1400 hours sounds like a pretty decent lifespan for a pump, so I’m not saying thar the pump is poorly made. On the other hand, the Brava pump cost about 150 to 200 dollars, while a used Ardo Calypso pump only costs 30-40 dollars if you only buy the pump without any of the unnecessary nursing accessories. If I’m going to have to replace the pump every 3 to 5 months, I’m not going to pay hundreds each time. Another thing I’m worried about is the possibility of the Brava pump breaking during a session and injuring me. Sometimes when a Brava pump breaks it just shuts off and never turns back on, but other times the pressure sensor fails and the pump just keep pumping until it causes injury, unless you can wake up in time to disconnect it. I don’t know if I should switch to the Ardo pump right away to avoid that possibility.


I’m also planning on making some yoga mat padding rings, because my blue tac padding works ok but it’s nowhere near soft enough to use at a higher pressure. I’ve tried making yoga mat padding before but I couldn’t create a seal because the mat was waaay to thick and spongey. Nowadays I know better, so I’ll use a much thinner and denser mat. I read over on the noogleberry forum that 6 to 8mm thick is the sweet spot for maximum comfort without compromising your ability to create a seal.




Hey girl!

Question: How could you make the Calypso pump work for the domes? <3




Just put domes where the nipple flange thingies would normally go. I don’t know if it will fit my tubing, but there are connectors that can make it fit, assuming I can figure out which size connectors to buy.




Never thought about it! Are you going to try it out or it's just an idea for now?

 Reply
#40

(06-12-2020, 04:31 PM)SweetO Wrote:

Never thought about it! Are you going to try it out or it's just an idea for now?



I’ll probably try it out soon, but I’m not sure. I already use a breast milk pump with my domes. It’s nothing new. People were using breast milk pumps with domes 15 years ago or whenever I first started trying out NBE (I’ve had several failed attempts that were years apart from each other). It’s very easy to do as long as your domes fit on to the tubing.

 Reply
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