[surferjoe2007]

Dear Surferjoe,

I have been taking the items from the nutrition list for 3 days.

I just need to clarify a few things:

1. Should I continue the nutrition program for a couple of months and then start with the herbs or should I start taking the herbs alongside? what is better? ( I am an A cup and my goal is to become at least an E cup)

2. I have access to both Shatavari powder and Shatavari capsules, which form is better?

3. I have fenugreek seeds (I can grind it), and I have access to fenugreek capsules, which form is better? Is fenugreek safer than Shatavari as its a common household item?

4. Is fresh mint as effective as saw palmetto capsules?

5. <meta charset="utf-8">Is red clover better than PM if I have access to it?

6. If I take Shatavari/Fenugreek, mint/saw palmetto, PM, and PC, will my hormones become adversely affected? 

7. Could you please explain what the purpose of the following is:

1. Shatavari/fenugreek
   
2. saw palmetto or mint 
   
3. PM or red clover
   
4. PC
   
5. Massage
   

Thankyou

Btw sometimes I’ll see an email notification and have free time and respond fast, other times I may be a few days but I still see things eventually.

1.  Either way is ok.  If you’re on a budget or want to save effort you might want to wait on the herbs because they may or may not help for the first few months when starting from A cup.  Either way you shouldn’t take PM or PC during the first few months, or you should greatly limit the amount if you do: For example up to 250 mg PM and 1/4 tsp PC.  After you start to get results you can experiment with increasing them, preferably one at a time a little bit at a time.

2.  Both are the same but make sure it’s 50% saponin to be strong enough.  Or 25% saponin and use twice as much, etc.

3.  Likewise the same, look for 50% saponin.  Or you can soak 1-8 tsp whole fenugreek seeds in water for at least a few hours or overnight to soften, and eat them.  Besides that fenugreek can make your sweat smell like maple syrup.  Which might be a neutral or good thing, but some don’t like it.

4.  They work in different ways.  30g fresh mint per day reduces all testosterone and has stronger studies behind it.  Saw palmetto *extract* only reduces DHT and while it probably works or at minimum probably helps with NBE, there’s a little bit of conflicting information on whether or not that’s all from DHT reduction or if there’s a lot of DHT reduction.  DHT is “bad” testosterone which besides inhibiting breast development like all testosterone does, also may increase acne and body hair including facial hair.

5.  It’s much weaker and less effective than PM, but this can be a good thing during the first few months when you need to limit the amount of PM anyway.

6.  Usually balanced hormones, usually a hormonal benefit unless you have problems with libido, possibly be careful and keep the amount low, possibly be careful and keep the amount low.  Though PM is more troublesome than PC and PC sometimes corrects problems if a lack of progesterone was the cause.

7.
1.  All hormones in balance.  Boosts the hormones your body makes and often the effects of other herbs too.
2.  Reduces testosterone which inhibits nbe, though T increases libido too.
3.  Immitates estrogen.
4.  Provides progesterone.  E and P help NBE when both raised and kept in balance.  So you need to be careful with E and P so you become more balanced not less balanced.  When you aren’t growing that is completely blind (unless you take a hormone test), hence why I say to keep them low until you are growing and can experiment.  Plus if you aren’t responding well with growth you might overtax your body with too much even if kept in balance.
5.  Provides a little growth, reduces cancer risk (in general, herbs usually reduce cancer risk too), prevents stretch marks.  Even safer than herbs but takes a lot of work for little gain.  But at least a little bit is probably a good idea for breast health, if not a lot to help more with NBE.

Foods are also very important for herbs, hormones and growth to work properly.  To keep hormones in balance, stay healthy, and to maximize growth (or sometimes to be able to grow at all).

[nwyori]

Hey biggiwant girl,

Yes, please consult a doctor so that you can get a suitable BCP for PCOS. If you can't do that locally, there are online BCP prescription/consultation sites like Nurx. It's super important to get your PCOS under control before NBE can start to take off! Androgens *strongly* inhibit NBE, even if you take P & E supplements. I think that might be the major reason why your program did not work so far. And the pills are safe to use if you get them from a trusted source (registered pharma).

I'm looking into mitosis, alveologenesis, and the prolactin pathways so hopefully I can come up with more info soon. You can also look at my previous posts on BO and PM (deoxymiroestrol). Mitosis happens in luteal according to the article I posted.

[nwyori]

My current program seems to work. I've done some more research on BO and decided to pause/take smaller amount, because like what Lotus and Surferjoe suggested, the bovine estrous cycle has a longer luteal phase and thus a higher P:E ratio, *if* the cows are slaughtered randomly throughout the cycle. Last cycle I run out of BO half way and was forced to stop, and my breasts started to ache so much. Same thing happened this month. But this is contrary to what MissEllen said about taking BO from day 12-24, so I need to look more into the mechanisms.

Noogling and BCP might have also helped. I got a dull pain (like how I felt in puberty) and some nice swelling. I guess this is the sensation when alveologenesis happens.

Last night I measured at 94, so close to my midterm goal 95!

[Boin]

Hello everyone! I'm a lurker on this wonderful forum for a while now and you all have helped me so much with your experience and knowledge! In the past five months I've increased from a large C cup to a fitting F cup, and I'm still experiencing growing pains so I'd like to think there is more to come. I will share my journey and document future progress in this thread.

About me: 23 yo/ 5'7/ 120lb/ Asian&European/ biological female. I'm moderately active (though not so much in quarantine), and have a slim build. My upper body looks slightly smaller in proportion to my lower body. I don't seem to experience estrogen dominance before I started NBE, but I suspect that my androgen levels are high (oily skin, hair loss, anxiety, etc.)

Measurements:

February: underbust 69, bust 83

April: underbust 71, bust 87

July: underbust 70, bust 91

I've also gained a bit of weight, probably 4-5lb

First program: PM only

I reacted to PM after a few days and grew about 1.5 cm (could be temporary swelling), but it did have an effect on me. My breasts were tingly and heavy. It stopped working after 2 weeks, and even caused shrinking.

Second program: PM, PC, fish oil, MSM, VitC, white peony

This program was pretty successful. I got some spotting symptoms while only on PM, so I thought the P:C ratio was wrong and incorporated PC. It worked wonders for me, and my breasts were so painful for an entire month I couldn't even touch them. The routine for this program is pretty simple:

• PM 250mg, twice daily
• fish oil 1g, twice daily
• PC before bed
• MSM 1.5g, twice daily
• VitC 1g, after waking up

I incorporated these supplements one by one, to make sure that my body actually reacts to each one of them. Among all, I found white peony and MSM to be the most useful ones. Without white peony my eyebrows grew like wild grass, and MSM single-handedly brought a visible growth spurt in April. I've gained 6cm from this program, but when I reached 88-89cm I feel less tingling sensations and my progress slowed down a lot, so I switched program.

Current program: BO, BO nipple cream, fish oil, MSM, VitC, high protein diet, (sometimes reishi), (sometimes L-arginine)

I get instant, strong tingles after taking BO, should have done it earlier! I replaced white peony with reishi because it's not estrogenic, though I haven't thoroughly experimented on whether I react differently to WP and RS while on BO. My body temperature is normally 98.4 - 98.9. I've noticed that after a hot shower I immediately get strong growing pains, and when I set the AC too low, the tingles disappear almost simultaneously. So temperature definitely matters for BO. If your natural body temperature is low, simply wear more clothes! I did that and it worked for me.

• Swanson BO 250mg, twice daily, 2 pills every time (I'm still experimenting on dosage, and will talk about it in a separate post)
• BO nipple cream: keep it on for 12 hours
• fish oil: 1g, twice daily
• MSM: 1.5g, twice daily
• VitC: 1g, after waking up
• high protein diet: Mix protein powder with plain greek yogurt (30g protein in one cup), drink at least 1.5L water, plenty of fresh fruits for detox and HGH/IGF-1, limited carbs (low GI), wakame soup twice a week (supplement iodine)
• L-arginine: newly added, not sure about its mechanism and effects yet

Here's a general summary of my journey so far. I will later post more about why I decided to add/take out some ingredients, and stuff I noticed/theories I had while experimenting with all the supplements. Please let me know what you think! Happy growth everyone " alt="" title="">

Hey
nwyori

!

Did you cycle the PM in your second program(PM, White Peony, MSM etc)? and if so, how did you cycle?

[nwyori]

Changes to my program:

 - stopped casein and whey because they spike insulin

 - taking reishi and WP together

 - added aloe vera as recommended by Lotus

Last night I hit my 95cm midterm goal. My breasts were so sore in the past week, and they seem to grow overnight. Normally it takes a month to grow 1-2 cm. I gained some weight, but my other measurements haven't changed much. +1cm on waist.

My active BCP will run out in a week. Will update again when period is over.

Hey Boin,

I cycle everything that contains phytoestrogen, but not basic supplements like MSM. I'd start taking PM from day 10 because I don't want a high amount to send negative feedback to the pituitary gland and suppress FSH/LH and thus creating an anovulatory cycle. For WP, it is not as strong (I haven't calculated anything, but WP didn't seem to have an estrogenic effect on me so I guess it weak and negligible), and I take it from day 4.

[Boin]

Changes to my program:

 - stopped casein and whey because they spike insulin

 - taking reishi and WP together

 - added aloe vera as recommended by Lotus

Last night I hit my 95cm midterm goal. My breasts were so sore in the past week, and they seem to grow overnight. Normally it takes a month to grow 1-2 cm. I gained some weight, but my other measurements haven't changed much. +1cm on waist.

My active BCP will run out in a week. Will update again when period is over.

Hey Boin,

I cycle everything that contains phytoestrogen, but not basic supplements like MSM. I'd start taking PM from day 10 because I don't want a high amount to send negative feedback to the pituitary gland and suppress FSH/LH and thus creating an anovulatory cycle. For WP, it is not as strong (I haven't calculated anything, but WP didn't seem to have an estrogenic effect on me so I guess it weak and negligible), and I take it from day 4.

Thats so exiting! I’m jealous! " alt="" title="">

So do you take PM from day 10-period starts or?

[GrowGirl]

Dear Surferjoe,

1.You have mentioned maca for butt. Does maca not work for breasts? How does maca work for the body?

2. You have mentioned that we should take the herbs (option 2)  indefinitely. Does that mean for the whole life?

3. Has anyone outside of this forum tried option 2 (nutrition and then herbs) and seen results? Did they have any side effects?

4. Is maca safe if there is no hormone imbalance as such? There is this one article, where this model took maca powder, gained two cup sizes, but as a result, got her period twice. This is the link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6157475/Model-claims-superfood-maca-powder-caused-breasts-grow-TWO-cup-sizes-month.html ;

5. If I take extra estrogen via fenugreek and PM once I start taking the herbs, will than not tamper with my hormones or is it safe?

Thank you very much " alt="" title="">

[surferjoe2007]

Dear Surferjoe,

1.You have mentioned maca for butt. Does maca not work for breasts? How does maca work for the body?

2. You have mentioned that we should take the herbs (option 2)  indefinitely. Does that mean for the whole life?

3. Has anyone outside of this forum tried option 2 (nutrition and then herbs) and seen results? Did they have any side effects?

4. Is maca safe if there is no hormone imbalance as such? There is this one article, where this model took maca powder, gained two cup sizes, but as a result, got her period twice. This is the link:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6157475/Model-claims-superfood-maca-powder-caused-breasts-grow-TWO-cup-sizes-month.html ;

5. If I take extra estrogen via fenugreek and PM once I start taking the herbs, will than not tamper with my hormones or is it safe?

Thank you very much

1.  It works for breasts too.  It’s more popular for the butt and more often works for that.  I’m not exactly sure how it works.  It seems to adapt itself to various hormones similar to fenugreek, and yet it’s more likely to affect butt than breasts, unlike fenugreek.  Maybe it affects estrogen more than progesterone, I’m not sure.  I have read that most of those who grow breasts using maca tend to be larger chested to begin with, or at least medium.

2.  After you stop herbs it may take several months to a couple years to shrink back down but eventually you’ll shrink.  So it’s best to keep taking them.

3.  It’s hard to tell because people tend to be inconsistent or mix in other ideas.  I’ve helped people who did well but nearly all of them also did other things.  And many had trouble sticking to the foods.  Others disappear from the forums.  I try to get info from past successes mostly, and sometimes from those I help too.  I have noticed most A cups who grow a lot add some form of nutrition such as parsley juice, lots of healthy seeds or etc.  It also tends to be slow, taking months and then only after they find the nutritious food(s).  Be patient and don’t assume you’ll be the same as those who grow in less than a month.

4.  It’s safe but sometimes can cause hormonal issues including period issues.  Other times it can correct hormonal issues and/or improve hormonal balance. Usually it’s a mild benefit in that area, but it varies.  Likewise most don’t grow 2 cup sizes nor so quickly, but it varies.  Balanced hormones are always best for any NBE program both to avoid hormonal problems and to grow.  But lacking exactly what maca provided might be why the model responded so strongly both positively and negatively.  She might have had high progesterone and relatively low estrogen for example.  Hard to say.

5.  It’s safe and non-toxic but likewise may sometimes cause hormonal issues.  Especially PM.  Fenugreek might cause issues but it is more likely to improve hormonal balance instead.  Too much PM might lead to a hormonal imbalance not only causing various monthly issues but also often inhibiting or reversing nbe growth.  Those who start with a larger size are more likely to benefit from PM because that means their hormones are already balanced well enough to grow and they must be free from other issues that might inhibit growth.  Starting from A cup it’s less likely to benefit from PM and I read about much fewer success stories that way.  At least not until you also do other things for your health and hormones first.  That’s why I typically recommend nutrition as a basic starting point.  Keeping herbs balanced for balanced hormones such as using PC with PM too.

[GrowGirl]

Dear Surferjoe,

1. There are two types of Shatavari powder yellow and white. What is your opinion on this with regards to nbe, different capsules and powders sells different types?

2. If I start with 600 mg of Shatavari, will it be as effective as a higher dosage? What's the advantage/disadvantage of starting off with a higher dosage?

The reason I ask is because the Shatavari powder bottle recommends a dosage of 1/2 teaspoon or 3 g or 3000mg up to twice daily (thus max at 6000mg). Whereas Shatavari is available in a smaller dosage of 500 mg in capsule forms.

3. Is it ok if I just take Shatavari, as it will add estrogen to my body?

4. Is it safe to take Shatavari for life?

Thank you very much " alt="" title="">

[surferjoe2007]

Dear Surferjoe,

1. There are two types of Shatavari powder yellow and white. What is your opinion on this with regards to nbe, different capsules and powders sells different types?

2. If I start with 600 mg of Shatavari, will it be as effective as a higher dosage? What's the advantage/disadvantage of starting off with a higher dosage?

The reason I ask is because the Shatavari powder bottle recommends a dosage of 1/2 teaspoon or 3 g or 3000mg up to twice daily (thus max at 6000mg). Whereas Shatavari is available in a smaller dosage of 500 mg in capsule forms.

3. Is it ok if I just take Shatavari, as it will add estrogen to my body?

Thank you very much " alt="" title="">

Answered in PM before I saw it here.