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Deep Question (Notice: Intimate)
#1
I’m asking something quite deep, intimate, and detailed here. Yesterday I noticed something that triggered a chain of thoughts and a hypothesis.

It was yesterday during foreplay with my fiancé, that a particular memory pulled all sensations to a sharp point. The memory itself is so hazy that mostly only its emotional permeation remains: I am exposed, my chest is exposed, and I am acutely aware of being female amidst males. Immediately all sexual charge I had with my fiancé is washed away.

The reason this is so interesting, is because this memory has arisen at various points over the years, since I was a young girl (maybe 7 or so; I’m 25 now). If I listen to the memory closely, i think I am aware of being exposed in front of my brothers and father, and feeling wrong.

Then other things come to mind. As a girl/budding teenager, I simultaneously felt it shameful to be a woman, and wrestled with deep anger towards men. I would say on account of the way my father spoke about women and treated my mother. I remember trying to prove to myself and others that I was as tough as a man, that I wasn’t womanly. Around the age of 15 or so I began growing a bit too much hair on my throat, though it wasn’t yet hirsutism. My breasts never developed past a shallow A-cup, in spite of exclusively busty women on both sides of my family. My hips also remained narrow and my torso straight, with little indication of a feminine waist.

In my early twenties, when I began engaging with men sexually, I discovered to my deep shame and with excruciating pain, that I had what is called “vaginismus”: my vaginal muscles wouldn’t loosen enough to let a man inside. They refused to budge no matter the position, coaxing, lubricant, setting, no matter how wet or horny I was - something said “NO”.

Now, I got through vaginismus. It was not trivial. I had to face it bare-faced and with a burning courage. But I faced it. And I made it not just my problem, but the issue of my partner and friends. Because, “only you can do it, and you can’t do it alone.”

Maybe I still have some digging to do. To figure out if some part of my psyche is obstructing my breast development.

Do you think our psyche might have a much bigger influence on our production of hormones than we’re accounting for? Might I ask those who are willing to describe their own psychological nuances insofar as they see them relating to breast/female development? Relevant childhood experiences, current self-image?
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#2
(26-08-2019, 02:39 PM)Aboreal Wrote: [font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]I’m asking something quite deep, intimate, and detailed here. Yesterday I noticed something that triggered a chain of thoughts and a hypothesis. [/font][/font]

[font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]It was yesterday during foreplay with my fiancé, that a particular memory pulled all sensations to a sharp point. The memory itself is so hazy that mostly only its emotional permeation remains: I am exposed, my chest is exposed, and I am acutely aware of being female amidst males. Immediately all sexual charge I had with my fiancé is washed away. [/font][/font]

[font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]The reason this is so interesting, is because this memory has arisen at various points over the years, since I was a young girl (maybe 7 or so; I’m 25 now). If I listen to the memory closely, i think I am aware of being exposed in front of my brothers and father, and feeling wrong. [/font][/font]

[font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]Then other things come to mind. As a girl/budding teenager, I simultaneously felt it shameful to be a woman, and wrestled with deep anger towards men. I would say on account of the way my father spoke about women and treated my mother. I remember trying to prove to myself and others that I was as tough as a man, that I wasn’t womanly. Around the age of 15 or so I began growing a bit too much hair on my throat, though it wasn’t yet hirsutism. My breasts never developed past a shallow A-cup, in spite of exclusively busty women on both sides of my family. My hips also remained narrow and my torso straight, with little indication of a feminine waist. [/font][/font]

[font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]In my early twenties, when I began engaging with men sexually, I discovered to my deep shame and with excruciating pain, that I had what is called “vaginismus”: my vaginal muscles wouldn’t loosen enough to let a man inside. They refused to budge no matter the position, coaxing, lubricant, setting, no matter how wet or horny I was - something said “NO”. [/font][/font]

[font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]Now, I got through vaginismus. It was not trivial. I had to face it bare-faced and with a burning courage. But I faced it. And I made it not just my problem, but the issue of my partner and friends. Because, “only you can do it, and you can’t do it alone.” [/font][/font]

Maybe I still have some digging to do. To figure out if some part of my psyche is obstructing my breast development. 

[font=.SF UI Display][font=.SFUIDisplay]Do you think our psyche might have a much bigger influence on our production of hormones than we’re accounting for? Might I ask those who are willing to describe their own psychological nuances insofar as they see them relating to breast/female development? Relevant childhood experiences, current self-image? [/font][/font]


Vaginismus is not mental but physical issue. You need to find a good physio specialised in physiosexology and work on that issue.
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#3
(26-08-2019, 03:57 PM)sweetorange Wrote: Vaginismus is not mental but physical issue. You need to find a good physio specialised in physiosexology and work on that issue.


Sorry, I don't know why my original post was in such a messed up format. Fixed it hopefully.

As I wrote, I already solved the issue of vaginismus. I don't believe it is physical at all. The vagina of a woman with this condition is exactly the same as that of a "healthy" woman. The muscles contract involuntarily and it is especially prevalent among women from highly conservative backgrounds, who attempt to lose their virginity on their wedding night, and among women who were sexually traumatized.

Have you ever experienced not being able to pee, because you knew others could hear you? And you really try to pee, but your muscles just won't let up? I think the principle is the same. Your muscles are the same as when you are alone and nobody can hear you, but the situation is different mentally.

I could write a lot more about vaginismus and my personal (successful) battle to overcome it, but it's detracting from the point of my thread.

Thank you for trying to point me in a good direction in any case Smile
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#4
Hi Aboreal,
I've had similar issues and fought through them on my own.
I am a wee bit older than you are, but knowing what I know now I would suggest you drop in to a psychologist, therapist, or whom ever and explain your story, much like you told us.
Your continuing fear of intimacy I'm sure (like mine) is rooted in your upbringing.
Parents try their best, but often cant see the future.
Bobbi
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#5

Hey, thank you for sharing your experiences with us, I am glad you could work things out.


I remember two things about my childhood/puberty. One thing was that I did not want to grow up or get taller. The kids I used to hang out with more or less frequently were my godmother's twin nieces. They were 3 years younger than me which, at a young age, did make a difference. I can recall younger kids being treated better than myself, the older one. Somehow this must have manifested in my brain and at some point I decided that I didn't want to grow any more. I started putting books and even weights on my head to stop myself from growing. I was around the age of 12 when it got really bad and I actually did stop growing around that time, too. I was, and still am, 5'1. Now this could be coincidence and might not necessarily have anything to do with my breasts, but I was terrified of growing in general, I would measure myself all the time, I knew the height of several things including tiles, wardrobes, so I could easily check if I had grown. I remember wanting to run away from home or maybe even kill myself(?) if I'd grow.


Second thing is, my dad had cheated on my mom several times during their marriage which I knew from a rather early age on since he had a son from his affair who used to stay with us every other weekend (my mom was ok with this because she said it wasn't the boy's fault).

I am adopted since my mom couldn't have kids and according to the lady who had arranged the adoption, my biological mom had given me up because she too, had had an affair with a married man who couldn't leave his family because he was a reputable businessman. (As I found out later after having talked to my birth mother, this wasn't even true, she must have been whoring around, which I don't mind at all if the guys were single, and says she doesn't even know who my father is.) But once again I was being confronted with those "bad" women who lured married men into their bed. I don't know why, at an early age, I had such a strong aversion to women who were having affairs with married men, maybe because I saw my mom devastated because of my dad's affair(s?). I am mad because it wasn't even true for my biological mother and I hated her and myself so long for believing I was the product of the dirty deed of a cheating married guy and his slut. So at some point, I started hating myself for being a slut, because I was a woman and this somehow turned me into a slut because my mom was one (not caring about her several one night stands with random guys, as she says, the only thing that got to me was the 'fact' that it was supposedly a married man). Talk about self-fulfilling prophecy, though, I've had my fair share of sex with guys I didn't really care about when I was still drinking and after breaking up with someone that I still loved. I wish my (adoptive) mom hadn't been lied to by the adoption agency about my heritage and hadn't been told that 'businessman' story which she passed on to me. I mean what were they thinking? That it would make me, as a baby, look more attractive to my family than knowing that I come from a mother who doesn't even know who she's been sleeping with? After all, the guy could have been married, as well, we don't know that, so I shouldn't be holding a grudge, they meant well after all. I was still disgusted with the idea of sex when pretty much everyone else my age had already lost their virginity. Up until this day, I am still twisted about this whole sex thing.


So yes, I didn't want to grow up as in growing up in general plus I didn't want to become a woman because this would automatically turn me into the slut I was meant to be because of allegedly having a slut as a biological mother.


That being said, my breasts are tubular and they say this is a congenital deformity, so I don't know. But then again, they just assume it's a congenital deformity, it only becomes apparent during puberty, so how would they know. I've also read about tuberous breast deformity being caused by 'trauma' to the chest, who knows if my fear of growing and of becoming a woman (=slut) caused enough psychological trauma to make my breasts end up that way. I don't necessarily believe this to be the case, but you never know.

It's been ages since I last wrote such a long text in English lol.


Take care!

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#6
I dont have a similar experience to add but I do want to add something I saw in a documentary the other day where doctors had heard about the placebo effect beeing just as strong as the real operation for something wrong with bones in the spine..

They couldnt believe the scandanavian researchers so they wanted to find out and had a group of hundreds of people who needed this back-operation. Only halve of the patients received the operation the others were beeing tricked, thinking they had the operation...they did everything to ''fool'' the patients and made it loook like they really had the operation. And afterwards the pain of the patients in the placebo-group was gone just as with the  patients who did recveived the operation.

The doctors dont really know how to explain this but its truth mind-power, we have what it seems a personal pharmacy in our brains....BUT we really do have to believe it and have faith in it. A nice comparison is how centuries ago everybody believed in god and churches were active all over the western world. They must have known that thoughts are powerful things..

Yes I totally believe that when a young girl thinks she should not have breasts bc thats to feminine for her , Or she iss afraid she stays small and wont grow breasts, it really becomes reality.

We might keep ourselves more responsible for not having breasts and allow our minds to grow. In the mind and the bossom area ofcourse... Rolleyes Smile
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#7

That is very interesting, hannah. Even though I would have been a bit pissed if I had been in this group without knowing about it. I don't know if I'd been more pissed about not having had the op and having been fooled or about having been operated when they already knew that it wasn't necessary and could have just pretended.


The mind can be a powerful instrument indeed.

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#8
(07-06-2020, 11:50 AM)koyasha Wrote:

That is very interesting, hannah. Even though I would have been a bit pissed if I had been in this group without knowing about it. I don't know if I'd been more pissed about not having had the op and having been fooled or about having been operated when they already knew that it wasn't necessary and could have just pretended.


The mind can be a powerful instrument indeed.




Lol, yeh I would have been pissed off as well lol. But the patients talking in the documentary werent bc they no longer had any pain BUT they still needed the operation and received it later on.. it was a research project to find out about the placebo-effect. So faith and positive thoughts can  actually become reality. Just like how you didnt grew in height bc you were resistant in beeing the oldest biggest at home.. 
Very interesting story btw Tongue
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#9

(08-06-2020, 07:10 PM)hannah Wrote:
(07-06-2020, 11:50 AM)koyasha Wrote:

That is very interesting, hannah. Even though I would have been a bit pissed if I had been in this group without knowing about it. I don't know if I'd been more pissed about not having had the op and having been fooled or about having been operated when they already knew that it wasn't necessary and could have just pretended.


The mind can be a powerful instrument indeed.




Lol, yeh I would have been pissed off as well lol. But the patients talking in the documentary werent bc they no longer had any pain BUT they still needed the operation and received it later on.. it was a research project to find out about the placebo-effect. So faith and positive thoughts can  actually become reality. Just like how you didnt grew in height bc you were resistant in beeing the oldest biggest at home.. 
Very interesting story btw Tongue" alt="Tongue" title="Tongue">



Glad they were happy, but too bad they still needed the operation! Now that would have been great if not only the physical pain had disappeared! Know we know how easy it is to trick our minds, but the question if our bodies will cooperate remains. Haha  I wish I knew for a fact if my craziness back then was the reason why I stopped growing at 5'1 or if maybe I would have stopped growing, anyway. I sure hope so, I mean if not.. what a waste of time standing in front of the tv with a pillow on my head and a dumbbell on top of it.. bummer! 

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