Hello There, Guest!

Program 2 months in! (PM, Herbs, Nutrition, Massage, Pics)
#1
Hey, everyone! I've been lurking for a few months researching programs and herbs, and I finally feel like I am coming to a point where I feel comfortable posting my own program and progress. I've always been tall, thin, prone to acne, and a little "bottom-heavy" (something no one seems to mind ;D) and I had an eating disorder as a young teenager and feel that I may have stunted some of my natural breast growth then, leaving me with small 32B breasts now in my mid-twenties. I always assumed that, once I was secure in my career, I'd pay for implants, but reading the stories of capsular contracture, infection, implants traveling and the resulting deformities, not to mention the need to get new implants every ten years for maintenance, I decided that I didn't want to go down that route. So, naturally, looking into fat transfers follows, only problem is: who has $10,000 to spend on a surgery in which surgeons freely admit that up to 80% of the fat will be reabsorbed? I'm out on that for now, too. So finally, I remembered that a friend in college experimented with herbal breast enhancement, and they saw results! Why shouldn't I give that a try? So, here I am, as you all are, too.

Stats:
5'10"
25 years old
125 lbs
Before starting NBE: 32", 26", 36"

My regimen:

1) Days 1-15: 500mg Pueraria Mirifica

The first herb that attracted me was PM, for its potency and for its reported safety among the Thai communities that have used it for millennia. Not to mention, multiple sources report it reduces the incidence of breast cancer, which is important when we are basically taking these herbs to cause mastogenesis. I take 500mg daily from days 1-15 of my cycle. My choice to do so this way was based on the consensus that this is the method most in line with our natural spikes of estrogen. I have been taking Barlowe's Herbals, which is working well, but I bought my pills prior to becoming aware of Ainterol, the apparent gold standard for PM. I may switch to Ainterol when my supply runs out.

Interestingly, Ainterol has a 66-participant study on their website stating that more people experienced breast growth while taking 400mg PM BID rather than daily (28/34 saw breast growth at 800mg for 15 days as opposed to 3/32 taking 400mg daily for 15 days). This study only took place over two months, and PM is supposed to really show cumulative effects from 3 months of use onward, so take that with a grain of salt. I will continue at 500mg for the next few months, but if growth plateaus, I may increase to 500mg BID for the first 15 days.

(http://www.ainterolherbs.com/ainterolspu...-p-47.html)

2) Every day: 400mg Vitex

I know that the popular consensus is to use PM with Progesterone Cream to stave off estrogen dominance, but the side effects of progesterone cream are scary. Because you are self-measuring the dose, it seems easy to overdose on PC, and there is little consensus as to whether to apply daily, every other day, and how much to use. Finally, progesterone cream is stored in fat tissue, seems to metabolize fairly slowly, and can cause adrenal fatigue and an excess of progesterone, estrogen, and testosterone when used in excess. I read accounts of people developing heart palpitations and experiencing fluid retention while taking PC, and I decided it may be safer to start with a progesterone-modulating herb, such as Vitex. Vitex stimulates the pituitary gland to release LH, inhibit the release of FSH, and modulate the ratio of estrogen to progesterone, favoring an increase in progesterone.

***Note: I am contemplating adding daily shatavari, OR doing the GetCurvyNow regimen of Day 1-15: 500mg PM, Day 16-28: Breast Actives. The two should not be combined at the same time, but one for the first half of the cycle, one for the second, may be fine. I want to do a few months of just PM and vitex and nutritional modifications first, then think about adding another estrogenic supplement. Breast Actives is the best-reviewed combination herbal supplement, with Fennugreek, Wild Yam, Dong Quai, Blessed Thistle, Fennel, Dandelion, Kelp, Watercress, and Vitamin E.***

(https://getcurvynow.com/how-to-get-bigge...naturally/)

3) Every day: 50mg Zinc and 2 cups of spearmint green tea

Zinc is purported to be an anti-androgen, which is why I have added it in. In addition, it helps boost immune function, which is beneficial for me due to my job in a hospital (I'm not a doctor or pharmacist). Spearmint is a well-known anti-androgen, specifically, it decreases free testosterone, with two cups of tea daily being the dosage necessary to reduce hirsuitism in women with PCOS. Green tea is a 5-a Reductase Inhibitor, with prevents the conversion of T to DHT ("active testosterone"). Saw Palmetto is also a 5-a Reductase Inhibitor.

(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693613/)

***Note: White Peony is also a 5-a Reductase Inhibitor, as well as an aromatase (aromatic?) herb, which promotes the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. It also increases low progesterone, and thus may be a good adjunct to or replacement for Vitex.***

***Note 2: There seems to be an inverse relationship between progesterone and testosterone, as many pro-progesterone herbs are also antiandrogenic. I'll look into this, or maybe someone else has the knowledge and can share?***

Herb Sources:

(http://thehormonediva.com/6-best-medicin...-for-pcos/)

(https://www.larabriden.com/best-natural-...hirsutism/)

(https://breast.is/) Lotus's website? I think?

(http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=22417) Lotus's megathread on herbs.


4: Nutrition:

Thank you, MissMadScientist, for your nutritional program! I am trying to eat 2 TBSP flaxseed with yogurt and berries daily (estrogenic), and I add 2 TBSP full fat soy flour to a glass of whole milk, which I drink in the AM.

Also, thank you, surferjoe2007, for your tip about pumpkin seeds (not to mention all the herbal info he shared). I eat about 2 or 3 TBSP pumpkin seeds daily for their antiandrogenic properties.


(http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=27469)

(http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.ph...=surferjoe)


5: Massage:

I strive for two massages daily, consisting of 360 rotations of the chi massage on each breast and a lymph massage. Sometimes it's only one, if I'm busy. I massage with Evening Primrose Carrier Oil and Ylang Ylang Essential Oil. I plan to buy PM serum and add this to my evening primrose oil.

(http://www.growbreastsnaturally.com/3-es...ssage.html)

6: Pumping:

I've only been at this for two months, and have seen some growth, so I have not bought a Noogleberry. If growth slows, I may, but NBE is expensive and I need to prioritize lol! I do see the value in pumping and a lot of people seem to grow quite a bit from doing so, but I'm trying to dip a toe in at a time and don't care too much about rapid growth, as long as I have steady growth.

Pics:

First two are from June 2, 2018. UB: 28.5", B: 32", TB: 31" (shallow 32B, not much upper breast)
   

Second two are from June 27, 2018: UB: 28.5", B: 33.5", TB: 32" (little bigger, little more upper breast/cleavage)
   

Last two are from July 18, 2018: UB: 28.5", B: 35", TB: 33" (starting to feel sore, feel more like a full 32B)
   

Not sure of my goal size yet.
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#2
So, upon reading here about Breast Actives, it seems as if the dosing is too low to be particularly beneficial.

I did get a good idea going from Lotus and Isabelle as to what blend of herbs I should be looking for.

Pytoestrogen: Pueraria Mirifica, Shatavari, Dong Quai
Pytoprogestin: Vitex, White Peony Root, Dong Quai
Prolactin: Shatavari, Fennel?

Anti-androgen: Zinc, White Peony Root
Aromatase: White Peony Root
Pro-hormone: Fish Oil
Potentiator: Collagen/MSM


Days 1-15
Phytoestrogen: PM
Phytoprogestin: Vitex
Antiandrogen: Zinc
Pro-hormone: Fish Oil
Potentiator: MSM

Days 16-28:
Phytoestrogen: Shatavari, Fennel, or Dong Quai
Phytoprogestin: Vitex
Aromatase/Phytoprogestin/Antiandrogen: White Peony Root
Antiandrogen: Zinc
Pro-hormone: Fish Oil
Potentiator: MSM

**Dong Quai-Balance hormones, assists breast enlargement, improves gland function activities, stimulates progesterone synthesis, source of diosgenin

**Fennel-Promotes milk production, nutrient rich for NBE growth, stimulates the growth of breast tissue, rich in flavonoids that cause estrogenic effects, the key to the formation of new breast cells and tissue, and the boosting of excretion is key to the cleansing of the estrogen receptor sites which get clouded with environmental toxins that mimic estrogen.

Pueraria Mirifica-Phytoestrogen, minor anti-androgen (daidzien), anti-estrogenic (ER-beta), miroestrol/dexymiroestrol bind to estrogen receptors (ER-a)


**Shatavari-Phytoestrogen, normalizes estrogen levels, prolactin source, adaptogen, anticancer

Vitex-Corrects hormone imbalances, increases LH in favor of Estrogen, binds to ER-a (estrogen receptor alpha) progesterone receptor

**White peony root-Estrogenic, blocks 5-ar and pro-aromatase
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#3
So, another update.

I kind of brushed over in my top post my massage routine, which I feel like I should share because I recently made some modifications. So, in the shower (heat, open pores, convenience): quick Chiyomilk fat brush massage (I feel like this actually should be called "venous return brush" because I doubt I'm moving any fat anywhere, but massaging towards the breast/heart certainly facilitates venous return, which in turn would allow for more blood to circulate to the arteries in the breast), followed by ten pushes directly upwards, followed by 360/breast chi massage rotations.

I have to say, the chi massage is kind of annoying, so I do a modified version: for my right breast, I use my left hand, and for my left breast, I use my right hand. I do one breast at a time (counterclockwise for L breast, clockwise for R breast, same direction as the chi massage recommends), typically 100 rotations at a time before switching to the other breast. It takes longer, and if I'm in a hurry, I just do the standard chi massage, but it is a less awkward position for the arms and I feel as if I get a better massage when I do this.

Also, for massage oil: I bought the Swiss Botany PM serum and added it to a brand new container of my evening primrose oil carrier oil. So, I am massaging with those two at the moment. About 1/4 tsp will work fine, that may even be a little too much!

Evening primrose oil benefits: high in gamma linolenic acid, which is supposed to balance hormones and increase circulation to the affected tissue (v. important). Many people claim EPO alone increased their breast size and firmness. I actually find mine (Now brand) at a local supermarket!

PM benefits: ya'll know this already!

Finally, I wanted to make a few comments on my herbal regimen:

1. I'm doing a 3-day milk thistle cleanse while on my period. I think I overdid it with PM and I want to help my liver clear all that out before beginning again. I just had the *worst* start to my period in a long time, with a full day of anticipatory cramps (!) before things got going. So, I don't think I will be increasing my PM dose to 500mg BID next month, I'll just stay with 500mg daily. Also, I'm not sure if the vitex helped or did much of anything one way or another. I may look into white peony root during the luteal phase only.

2. Finally, I have added MSM for connective tissue growth. I bought Sun Foods Opti-MSM off of Amazon, and they have a weight-based dosing chart on the back, which I appreciate. They state that you should consume 2g/100lbs of body weight (roughly 2g/50kg) BID, or 1/2tsp BID. Today is my first day, so I am consuming half that dose (1/4tsp); tomorrow I will begin the full dose. It's easy to take in water and is slightly acidic tasting, but not at all bothersome.
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#4
Hey all,

I've been incommunicado on this thread the past few weeks due to life (friend's wedding, emergency funeral on the east coast, and a new position at my job that means I work more days in the week), but I have certainly been lurking! I've been reading Tibetan Princess's thread and watching her Youtube channel and wondering if BO may be more appropriate for me. What really seems to make sense to me about that as opposed to herbs is that it stimulates your body to produce its own hormones rather than stacking phytohormones on top of what you are already making.

I also had a scare last week when I went for a hike -- I took my MSM, my spearmint tea, my PM and fish oil and zinc, and went up to the mountains (9,000ft above sea level), and became severely lightheaded then developed a massive migraine! I only ever had migraines before while on birth control (read: xenohormones), so I suspected it could be PM-related (that's the only phytoestrogen in my program), or MSM-related (supposed to cause migraines in people unaccustomed to it, or in people taking too high a dose). So, I stopped all supplements in time for my red eye back to NYC for the aforementioned funeral, and have taken about a 5 day hiatus at this point.

I think my focus for now will be getting my body in shape to try BO next month after my trip to Italy. So, my goals are to gain about 5 lbs, begin taking a multivitamin, and *possibly* take an adrenal glandular depending upon the literature to see if that can help naturally raise my hormone levels. And keep drinking antiandrogenic tea, because that is for sure my main hormonal challenge.

Oh, and I plan to actually take a hormone saliva test to see what I'm working with. Should have started from there but I took the online quiz and thought it would be sufficient!
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#5
Bad day in boobland. Yesterday, my face and R breast developed a handful of pimples -- a cyst on my chin, a few whiteheads on the bridge of my nose, and a pimple on my areola. Okay, I break out now and then, nothing unusual, I popped the cyst on my chin, used my exfoliant (CeraVe -- cheap and reliable), and tried to pop the one on my areola to no avail. I figured it was a deep cyst and wasn't "ready" to pop, right? Not so.

This morning, I wake up with redness and pain surrounding the "pimple," which does not appear to be getting ready to pop, and actually looks like mastitis, complete with a red streak extending towards the armpit! I think this is probably from my massage oil, or massaging, generally. Can't think of any other reason my boob would have an infection. And, of note, I always massage in the shower, with clean hands. My massage oil is probably two months old at this point and ready to be switched out for a new vial, maybe that was the start of the issue?

Ugh. Regardless, I have work today, but I applied tea tree oil to the offending area and to the chin cyst, ate a clove of garlic, and will pray for a reduction in swelling. If not, to the doctor's I go tomorrow (day off).

I'm just going to take the rest of this cycle off from massage and estrogenic herbs and focus on the antiandrogens and nutrition. My boobs have also lost the perkiness and a bit of upper pole growth/swelling that they had, and look like they did prior to starting the herbs. Coming in at:

27" Band/Underbust
32.5" Bust
32.75" Top Bust


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#6
Keep a close eye on that infection, if it spreads any more, go to a doctor.

I notice your UB has gone down 1.5". Have you lost weight? Anyhow it doesn't seem like you lost much from your boobs if you take the under bust measurement into account.
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#7
Okay chiquititas, I am thoroughly removed from my crisis week of the altitude sickness and cyst/mastitis issue (it healed with whole garlic (eaten) and tea tree oil (topical) surprisingly!) and have taken a break from NBE to regroup. I'm just going to stop obsessing over hormonal cascades and try BO and general wellness, maybe adding a glandular support blend or antiandrogen if needed next month. My body temp, after ensuring I am eating enough each day, which sadly is a problem for me as I can get focused on a task to the exclusion of my stomach, has averaged 97.7. I bought an entirely-whole-foods women's multivitamin with kelp-sourced iodine (100mcg), and will use that with fish oil in the AM and 2 capsules BO nightly next month, after my period (any day now). I'm going to be on vacation next month so I will be focused on that more than updating here, but hopefully all goes well and I'll have some happy news in early October!
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#8
By the way, boobs are back down to their starting measurements: 31.5" top, 32" bust, 28.5" band/underbust.
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#9
If you still have body temp issue after adding kelp, you can try eating 1 tsp of coconut oil per day. It helped some girls on the forum here. Give it a search and try it out. Good luck!
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#10
(23-08-2018, 03:02 AM)FlatMeow Wrote: If you still have body temp issue after adding kelp, you can try eating 1 tsp of coconut oil per day. It helped some girls on the forum here. Give it a search and try it out. Good luck!


Thanks! Currently, temps are good -- 98.7 was my last reading.
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