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NBE... is it safe?
December 11 2006 at 2:06 AM Anonymous  (Login curioushubby)

Hello ladies,

I am very curious about NBE for my wife, but I have some questions that hopefully someone can help me with. Although these herbs are safe, are they not increasing the levels of progesterone and estrogen? I know that progesterone can is necessary for inducing cell death and that it decreases the risk for several types of cancer. However, increased levels of estrogen are not good. Although estrogen (estradiol) may stimulate cell growth in the breasts, these cells may not die thereby resulting in cancer. I hope someone can shead some light on the subject. Are there only some herbs that upregulate estrogen production? Thanks for your time.




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: NBE... is it safe?
December 11 2006, 3:25 AM

I have read that the phytoestrogens have a much milder effect than estrogen while they take up the estrogen receptors - thus blocking actual estrogen from those receptors. Most of the NBE herbs that have an estrogenic effect are these phytoestrogens. They don't stimulate estrogen production. Angus castus has an effect on the pituitary gland and causes the body to produce more progesterone. Progesterone is used by the body to produce several hormones, estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, etc. However, excess progesterone actually turns off the receptors. I don't think a normally functioning body would overproduce hormones for itself.

The real danger is from the artificial hormones. Xenoestrogens come from pesticide, plastics, hormones given to animals that are used for food and even birth control - these all cause heightened estrogen in women's and men's bodies. The true danger to your wife's health is not in NBE, but in the Xenoestrogens of modern life.

One great resource that may help you is a book by Dr. John Lee : 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause' - Although it does not talk about NBE, it has helped me in making my decisions for NBE.

Hope this has helped,
waxingmoon



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: NBE... is it safe?
December 11 2006, 12:45 PM

The way hormons and NBE really work is a lot more complex than anyone of us here can really explain. I study medicine and though I have some clue, I really don't have like 1% of it. So the most reasonable thing to do is to look at empyrical evidence. Women have only benefited from herbs and there is no observation of breast cancer linked with NBE. There are studies that say that increasing estrogen-like activity increases breast cancer and shout that NBE is dangerous, but nothing in practice has confirmed that. Then there are other studies that say the opposite - that estrogenic-like agents decrease the rish of cancer, cause they block actual estrogen. But the fact is that the herbs we use have been used for centuries and that's more than enough time to ascertain whether they are likned to cancer and they have never been, sooner the opposite.
And afterall, if growing breasts with herbs could be attributed the risk of cancer, the same risk could then be attributed to birth control pills and even having big breasts naturally from the beginning.



emmie
(Login emmiedee)
great to show concern
December 11 2006, 5:12 PM

first of all, i think it is great that you are concerned for your wifes health before anything else... good for you, and she is a lucky lady!

as for your question, if you look at some of the common herbs taken some of them are being studied as possible cancer prevention herbs... just about all of them are overall good for health and good for breast health. there has been some concern over mineral oil, but the herbs themselves have not been held suspect that i have read...

again, good on you for looking out for her. any other questions you have, let us have it!!



Vicky A
(Login VickyA)
Re: NBE... is it safe?
December 11 2006, 5:49 PM

I believe there is a cancer danger with bovine ovary, but not with herbs. Before anyone jumps on me, this is only my humble opinion, but I think introducing a cow's hormones into your body through eating their ovaries is dangerous and carries a cancer risk. I don't believe this is the case with herbs, since herbs act to regulate hormone levels, not just increase them. I believe taking NBE herbs even protects against breast cancer and this view is supported by the statistics on cancer rates throughout the world, which consistently indicate that the higher the phytoestrogen consumption in a particular country the lower the rate of breast cancer.



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: NBE... is it safe?
December 11 2006, 7:08 PM

I don't know what are the levels of hormones in BO, but taking BO itself isn't that different from taking BCP. We must know that eveverything with estrogenic activity increses breast cancer risk, even our own hormones. But obviously we're not gonna stay away from everything because of that. I think the risks are small and I at least am perfectly willing to take it if I get boobs out of it. Anyway with BO I personally would be more worried about BSE. But then again I'm a bit paranoid about that. :p



Becky
(Login Becky)
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Re: NBE... is it safe?
December 12 2006, 8:49 AM

I agree about the BSE. That would be a greater concern to me.

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do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 14 2007 at 4:26 PM madboobie (Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER

Hello...

having read various threads I'm freking out a bit! I have EVERY sympathy for you girls who have been ill, for whatever reason, whether its to do with NBE or not. And I truly wish you a speady return to health. A someone pointed out boobs are not worth giving up your health for.

That said, has anyone got ill doing herbs? Would it just be excess herbs do you think or trying lots of different things over a long period of time? I hope I'm reasonably safe with wu but can't help but feel a bit anxious about it.

I'd really appreciate some reassurance and for people to share their herbs and health experiences, good or bad. I notice a lot of the marketing makes a lot of health benefits but is that just a marketing ploy, do you think?




momXseven
(Login momXseven)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 14 2007, 4:38 PM

I'm one of the ones that has been ill, and it is NOT from the herbs. I have fibromylagia and a very weak immune system so I get sick easily and being a mommy of seven kids they bring home all kinds of bugs from school. I did take a break from the herbs all of Oct. when I was really sick to give my body a break and so I could have a fresh start after I was better. Anyway I know for sure the herbs have helped me, I don't need anti-depressants right now, I feel so much better, I finally for the 1st time ever in my life have a real sex drive. I agree that having bigger boobs is not worth your health.



madboobie
(no login)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 14 2007, 7:13 PM

seven kids oh my god!! i have 2 and that's bad enough... did you breast feed them all?! Really pleased you're feeling better. Are you on a combined supplement or doing singles? And how much have you grown?



momXseven
(Login momXseven)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 14 2007, 9:33 PM

madboobie, I did not breast feed any of the kids. I'm now taking WonderUp, SP, EPO, GABA, L-Lysine. When 1st started I was on a lot of other things, you can look at my whole list on the program page. I have gone from an A cup to a C cup in 4 month.





madboobie
(no login)
thanks for the info....
November 14 2007, 9:43 PM

...did you find the sp helped your growth in a noticeable way? I assume you were not finding the wu effective enough and felt you needed to add something in? I'll look at your programme page. Don't worry about an answer if the anser is there!




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 15 2007, 8:25 AM

The herbs used in NBE are health foods and you can't say the health food industry is based on nothing but marketing, as you imply. For most health foods it's very easy to demonstrate the health benefits.



Reah
(Login Reah100)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 15 2007, 12:57 PM

I will be interested to see your replies as I too hsve been wondering this very same thing.



madboobie
(no login)
marketing
November 15 2007, 1:13 PM

'The herbs used in NBE are health foods and you can't say the health food industry is based on nothing but marketing, as you imply. For most health foods it's very easy to demonstrate the health benefits...'

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear - wasn't trying to imply that the health food industry is based on nothing but marketing, clearly there are numerous supplements and food substances available with very clear and documented health benefits (in fact as a health professional by career this is a particular interest of mine.)

My point was, really, specific to the NBE formulas that are commercially available which do major on benefits over and above the desired effects on the breasts. My anxiety would be that this is overplayed in order specifically to allay any anxieties or fears that women embarking on NBE might have. Clearly it is in the companies interests to sell their pills! (Hence the professioanlism of thier web design, numerous testimonials, etc.)

I cast no aspersions on the health food / supplements industry as a whole. However my instinct is to question and to ask 'who gains?'



HDChick
(Login HDChick)
think..
November 15 2007, 2:58 PM


Much safer than the alternative method of getting implants :-)

Chris



madboobie
(no login)
true enough....
November 15 2007, 6:41 PM

.....I hope, and there are definite benefits in having grown your own in terms of appearance! HDChick, how much have you grown now?




WiccanWoman
(Login WiccanWoman123)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 15 2007, 10:10 PM

I have not been around for a bit but I'm finding out more about my Thyroid problems and the Dr is concerned about my very high prolactin levels. I told Him about Grow Yours and my NBE programs and he said it may or may not be from that but either way its not safe to raise them beyond a certin point.

The pituitary gland controls prolactin level and helps to regulate your thyroid gland, upsetting the balance of those I am learning is dangerous and can cause side effects like low libido and vaginal dryness/ pain with sex among more serious ones. Thats something I have been dealing with since my hysterectomy however I started NBE after it too.. so NBE could be to blame.

I'm being very cautious now about NBE, not sure if I will ever find the right program for me or if any of this is truely "safe". I'm not saying its not safe its just food for thought.



HappyThoughts
(Login HappyThoughts)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re:
November 16 2007, 4:56 PM

Hi, girls!
I, too have been wondering if this is safe and what the long-term effect might be. I have just started taking WU.
This is part of an article that got me thinking:

"Natural breast enlargement pills could theoretically increase breast size because some of them contain herbs that have known estrogen-like effects on the body.
Birth control pills are thought to temporarily increase breast size in the same way--estrogen causes fluid retention in the breasts and may have an effect on breast tissue.

Are Breast Enlargement Pills Safe?
But if natural breast enlargement pills do work, there is no evidence that they're safe.
Adriane Fugh-Berman, M.D., professor of complementary and alternative medicine at the Georgetown University School of Medicine, said in an article published in Obstetrics and Gynecology, "The use of bust-enhancing products should be discouraged because of lack of evidence for efficacy and long-term safety concerns."
If breast enlargement pills do have estrogen-like effects in the body, there are some safety concerns. Estrogen given on its own stimulates the growth of tissue in the uterus and is believed to promote uterine cancer, which is why birth control pills and hormone replacement therapy normally contain progesterone to counter estrogen's effects on the uterus. We don't know if natural breast enhancement pills stimulate the growth of uterine tissue."

I am very intersted in finding out what your opinions are on the subject.







madboobie
(Login madboobie)
SENIOR MEMBER
good point...
November 18 2007, 8:43 PM

...re growth of uterine tissue, has anyone checked ths out with any of the manufacturers?



C
(Login frenchkitty84)
To momxseven about fibromialgya
November 19 2007, 6:19 AM

Hi my mom has fibromialgya also, and since 2 days ago i bought her a natural medicine i saw online called SAM-e it's said to help people with fibromialgya, depression, cartilage regeneration and many other things and it doesn't have any side effects, its very short to say if it helps or not but my mom is having a better sleep so far, and she is in a better mood, you can look for this product online or at the GNC stores, and also you can look for Pain Specialists Doctors, they treat all the illnesses that causes pain, so i hope this information helps you and that you heal completely very soon.



sophie
(Login sophie9)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 19 2007, 10:04 AM

i thought i'd share my recent thoughts on this. it is impossible to say for sure if nbe did in part contribute to my hormone imbalance (estrogen dominance), but all i know is i have a hormone imbalance, and if you look up estrogen dominance and look at the side effects, they aren't that pretty. i certainly am more interested in getting my body back into hormonal balance than i am concerned about growing larger breasts. having healthy hormone levels for my body and health is more important to me at this point than having large breasts.

at first i just assumed i must have low estrogen because i have small breasts. i'm not an idiot; i think a lot of us assume we have high testosterone and that we are doing something "healthy" and "natural" for our bodies by taking herbs - i did. we all know nbe is manipulating our bodies - for better or worse. maybe some of us do have a hormone imbalance and are lucky enough to fall upon the right program that will work for nbe. but i don't think the majority of us will. and if your hormones are in balance, why risk screwing up your hormones? now i have to take progesterone cream like a menopausal woman, and i'm only 27. i'm not blaming this on nbe, but i am saying it could have contributed and it certainly didn't help by adding estrogenic herbs. from what i've read, estrogen dominance is the most common hormone imbalance in women AND men! and my testosterone levels are too low now - my program was very anti-angrogen and i was adding extra fennugreek.

my point is, i'm just glad i got a hormone test when i did to see what was really going on with me. i suggest everyone does in order so that you can go about your program effectively and safely. sure...i would like my breasts to be a little bigger, but if they can't be, i'd rather take care of this issue now. i do know some of the symptoms of estrogen dominance are anxiety and depression. i've had several incidents this year since trying nbe that are rather unusual for me. i became terribly depressed taking wonderup. i just want to feel and be healthy. i've had breast implants, and i've done nbe. i grew 2 inches in a short time on natureday. i now realize my breasts are in balance to my body and clothing was actually becoming more difficult to fit as i was reaching my goal of a C cup. is it really tempting to manipulate my hormone levels to make my breasts grow because i know it worked for me? sort of...yeah. but i need to take care of the problem right now. which means no nbe. i'm not even allowed to eat soy products! and we all remember the post of the poor woman who took nbe herbs at the recommendation a nutritionist i believe and had disasterous results. she was so upset and emotional about the issue, and rightly so. and she wasn't trying to grow larger breasts. my point is not to scare anyone or be negative - i just have had the realization that the herbs i was taking was contributing to a hormone imbalance i probably already had. so i suggest if you do go about it, you see where your levels are and just keep in mind that we are trying to manipulate our bodies. not every woman is meant to have large breasts. and if i'm not one of them, eh...so be it. i went through enough with implants and i think it's time i take a look at the fact that i have nice legs, a pretty face, a good personality, etc. and that God jipped me in the boobs department! so is it safe? it apparently wasn't considering my hormone levels, and i really don't think it is safe to manipulate your hormone levels unless you are correcting an imbalance - which is what i am now doing with advice from a doctor. it sucks...no...i wish i could still do nbe because i grew to a 34C. but if i am a B again? So be it.



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 19 2007, 10:28 AM

Madboobie-Which hormone levels thread are you referring to? I would like to read it...

I just stumbled upon this forum recently and initially, I was very excited to know that the NBE option even exists. My eagerness to start my own program aside, there still are alot of unanswered questions for me. One being your very question...is it safe? So far as I can envision my starting an herbal NBE routine, I would only feel comfortable in doing so while seeing a naturopath or herbalist. I feel it would be important to have a health professional as a guide.
It would be a wise start, anyway, to do as much research as you can, devise a routine and have an naturopath (or herbalist,etc.) look it over. THEN, have them do a thorough check on your health history and current bill of health-hormonal balance, blood pressure, thyroid, Pap results,etc. I would get to know as much about each herb as possible, and the systems they affect on our bodies and have those systems checked prior to herbal use and monitored during use.
I know it sounds drastic perhaps, but we're dealing with our hormones here.
I used to work at a "natural foods"store, and I tell you, there were alot of things in that store that were not that natural. They contained "natural" ingredients, but too much of one thing can set anyone off balance (soy,for example-which is in almost everything these days-and was promoted as this healthful product and now there's much in the press lately about 'the dark side of soy'). Our culture in the u.s. is to overdo everything (if something is "good" for you, well, why not eat alot of it???)
I'm digressing a bit, but I guess my point is that even though herbs are generally safe and are indeed blessings from nature, they are very potent and need to be respected. I recently visited a naturopathic clinic for an ear infection, and I learned so much more about my entire body than just my ear.They spent a great deal of time with me, asking me questions and making me more aware of pieces of my health history that I had forgotten, or would not have considered in regards to my ear infection. Everything is connected. I think with any program that focuses on just one aspect of our body, we have to equally consider the whole.
I don't know enough about NBE, but from the threads here, I have gathered that there is still alot of research to be done. Correct me on this, but NBE is fairly new (last 10 years or so?) It seems apparent that there are successes with NBE, but I guess I want to know more about the long term. Will I be asking myself years later if a particular health problem has manifested because I used herbs to alter my hormones 15/20 years ago? I do know that if I start a program, I will be offering myself up as a guinea pig-being prepared to reap the benefits (or not), but also accept the consequences. Sorry for the long post.



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Sophie
November 19 2007, 10:55 AM

Sophie, I was posting just as your message went up. Wow. It suppported my concerns for sure. You are wise for getting yourself checked out. I'm amazed at how many girls have said they would be embarassed to tell a doctor (or health professional) that they are doing something like this. I think that should be the FIRST step in any NBE program. They're just body parts, after all, that our silly "culture" tells us we need more of to feel good about ourselves. i think any reasonable doctor would get the desire to want to "measure up",so to speak, to our culture's standards...

Also, some other posts I have read regarding adverse affects:I know Faerycat had an episode awhile back about some (serious sounding) depression and hormonal affectations like her hair falling out in clumps, etc. And Coffeegirl, i think, had posted something about a cyst that formed on her ovaries and then burst (!?). I've been trying to find more of their follow-ups on these instances. I will try and track down the exact posts and links, for accuracy.

Blessings to you all



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Has anyone got ill...
November 19 2007, 11:56 AM

Here are the posts I mentioned earlier:

Faerycat (in her personal program pages)- under title "Grim!"/April 13,2007:
"...am presenting most of the symptoms of hypothyroidism...hyprothyroid symptoms are exactly the same as estogen dominance symptoms and both are linked.Scary!!...I actually feel suicidal...just wanna feel healthy and well again..."

It's not clear if these symptoms Faerycat stated were related to the herbs or not, but she stopped her NBE though because of this episode. It looks like she was waiting for some test results, but there is no update after that (and I can't find any more details searching the forum). Does anyone know if she's alright?

Coffeegirl77 (in her personal program pages)-under "re:coffeegirl77's program"/March 12,2007:
"I discovered the increase in hormones caused a cyst to develop on one of my ovaries, and when I ovulated one month it burst..."




This message has been edited by durga on Nov 19, 2007 12:09 PM




northernmom
(no login)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 19 2007, 1:12 PM

I spent my first 8 years in asia (now in western canada) where herbal medicine was very prominent in everone's lives. and it is that herbal MEDICINE. we shouldnt full around with herbs lightly. having said that, i AM doing nbe with the four most popular herbs and am experiencing no negative side-effects. but my dosage is low: just tweaked my program to 1000mg per day. when i started visiting this site a few months ago, i must admit i was surprised at the very high dosage of herbs that were being taken. ladies, we all want bigger boobs, but do be careful. go lower dosage, for longer.



northernmom
(no login)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 19 2007, 1:16 PM

i meant i take fennel: 600mg; FG: 600mg, not 1000mg each.




madboobie
(no login)
message for Durga and other things
November 19 2007, 9:12 PM

... the hormones thread i was referring to was the one posted by Sophie, entitled 'I just got my hormone results back....'

Maybe its not completely relevant to everyone doing nbe but it made me think. I always think its worth asking questions. Obviously none of us want to get sick. I think lowest does of herbs possible to get a result assuming we've made the decision to go down the herbs route. And not messing about with lots of different routines over a long, long period of time.

I am going to give Wonderup (and nothing else other than massage and extra protein) a three month trial, then assess how I'm going and feeling. If all ok, will take a month break and then do another three. But I will certainly not be doing it for years.

It would be interesting to know how longs the girls who have had possible herb related problems were on their herbs for. Maybe there is a maximum safe period?

What do you girls think?



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Self-diagnosis
November 19 2007, 9:46 PM

The thing that stands out to me is that it seems challenging to really know if there are negative side effects going on, especially in the short term. We might be getting results and feeling fine, but it's difficult to know really what may be going on in our bodies. If estrogen does promote growth in other areas like the uterine tissue,we may not feel any symptoms until, like coffeegirl, a cyst bursts and then suddenly, she's aware that something is amiss. Was it the herbs? Was it a pre-existing condition? Hard to know since something like ovarian health wasn't checked out before using the herbs.
Things are cumulative, well beyond our immediate results. I think we should be very careful in self-diagnosing ourselves. Like Sophie said, people are manipulating their bodies.



sophie
(Login sophie9)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 20 2007, 8:48 AM

Thanks you guys. I was worried everyone was going to be upset or defensive regarding what I wrote. Durga - I agree; you should DEFINATELY tell your doctor or naturopath about nbe! I told mine. She totally and completely understood the desire and where it comes from. But I also want to feel better.

I have noticed changes in my mood since doing nbe. If i was inconsistent with my routine, my mood would change drastically. I actually am seeing a psychiatrist tomorrow because the inconsistancy coupled with the hormone imbalance have made me have serious depression problems - unlike what I have experienced in the past. I basically have had my family taking care of me. I am not blaming this on nbe, but I do see a pattern of when I have been on a program, when i have been inconsistent and when i have stopped. Now I have this hormone imbalance, which I may have had before, but that's the point - someone with my estrogen dominance should not be taking estrogenic herbs. They exacerbate the problem.

And you will notice as someone pointed out regarding my post on my hormone results, I was still considering finding a different program after I take care of my imbalance. But then by taking the herbs, I would be creating another imbalance, and if the imbalance is making me sick and not myself, why bother? It just isn't worth it to me! Sure - I would love my breasts to be a little larger, but if they aren't, so be it. I have been dealing with horrible depression for months. The time I was taking Wonderup was the worst - I literally would take just one pill (trying to start slow) and would be normal one hour, and the next could barely speak because I was so down. I would hate for a psychiatrist to mistake those behaviors with some serious mental condition if one didn't exist. Regardless, anxiety and depression are symptoms of estrogen dominance, and the problem has gotten so out of hand I need something temporarily to cope. It has affected my career even. Wonderup is not a good thing for estrogen dominance. The pill can make women depressed - it is rather similar in that way.

My doctor actually said we could talk about the herbs at a later point in terms of nbe. She said she understood my desire, but we need to get me healthy first and see if it is something I want. She uses a lot of herbs used for nbe as medicine actually. But I don't need those herbs as medicine! I just think about the woman who was posting explaining her experience with herbs that were rather carelessly prescribed by a naturopath, and I feel so bad for her. The post has to still be around. A lot of people - myself too unfortunately - were defensive. This woman went through so much pain and her body completely changed and she was dealing with a difficult time. She was trying to warn us. Even though I got in a little tiff with her, I stopped nbe when I read her post and decided to get my hormones tested. I suggest everyone do the same. We spend all this money on herbs - for 250 dollars I found out so much about my body and how to take care of it. Now I will have to explain to my psychiatrist tomorrow how I manipulated my hormones so that they don't put me on lithium or something I don't need! It seriously affected my mood, and it makes sense since I did not need the estrogen or the anti-androgen stuff. Oh - accelerated aging is the number one symptom of estrogen dominance - not something I am pleased to hear at 27! I want to get my body back in balance pronto! Good luck to you ladies!



Heloise
(no login)
Sophie - is this the previous thread on this topic?
November 20 2007, 10:30 AM

I did a search on your name and the following thread came up in my search:
Warning Too Much Estrogen Will Make You ILL
September 27 2007 at 5:07 PM

The thread is something of an emotional rollercoaster, but insightful. I've only just started NBE but will take a short break and cleanse and get my hormones checked before I tinker more with herbs for NBE. Though I wont give up on massage yet.

(PS Sophie - IMHO your comments were helpful and I felt they aimed to provide a balanced position.
PPS Waxing Moon - has a wonderful gift with words for refocussing on positive aspects of the dialogue.)



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 20 2007, 2:45 PM

This is a great thread because it shows everyone on it is thinking about more than just gaining some breast tissue.

Too often I read posts and the 'I'll do anything to grow my boobs' desperation is horrifying.

The answer to the thread topic is "It depends."

It depends on what you are doing. It depends on your overall health when you start NBE. It depends on your own personal vulnerabilities to things.

Yes -unopposed estrogen is very carcinogenic. They used to give birth control pills that were just estrogen until they noticed the increases in cancers. But here is the really confusing part. Some of the estrogenic herbs are actually lower dose than our own natural estrogen and therefore are PROTECTIVE - meaning they lower our total body estrogen. However -things like St Herb and some of the stronger herbs (red clover perhaps) are more potent than our own estrogen. And it is not just cancer to worry about - there is an increased risk of stroke with higher estrogen as well.

Now as far as massage, galactogauge herbs, 'boobie' foods, breast pumps, meditation... these things are probably relatively safe. Of course any thing can happen. I remember the post of a woman who used a snake bite kit tool to stimulate her nipple and ended up with a pituitary problem (now I am personally skeptical that there was not a pre-existing condition, but she didn't have the full blow problem prior to her actions).

The best we can do is be calm and rational in our approach to NBE. Research, research, research and then research some more. Be attentive to your body's reactions. Do not ignore symptoms. Do not be desperate.

Also - examine the rest of your life. What other things are you doing that are a threat to your health. Smoking, drinking, poor eating are unsafe as well. Are you overweight? Do you exercise regularly. Do you live your life in a healthy way? Do you deal with the stress in your life or let it overwhelm you?

This topic was a good start. I hope everyone takes it one step further and makes the rest of their life better too.

waxingmoon

Ps. Heloise -thanks for the kind words. I spend my life 'talking people down' from the emotional roller coasters they put themselves on.



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Sophie and Waxingmoon
November 20 2007, 10:41 PM

Sophie- Re:"My doctor actually said we could talk about the herbs at a later point in terms of nbe. She said she understood my desire, but we need to get me healthy first and see if it is something I want. She uses a lot of herbs used for nbe as medicine actually. But I don't need those herbs as medicine!": did you mean that your doctor thinks you could use some of these herbs as medicine for your hormonal imbalance, but not specifically for NBE?

I really feel for you and the issues you've been experiencing. Depression is not fun, especially on top of your hormonal imbalance, I'm glad to hear your family is taking care of you and that you are seeking support for your well-being. You are on the road to recovery and doing the best you can do. If it helps to know, I for one will be here if you need support on the forum. Sounds like there are others here to offer that, too. Know you are not alone, woman! Peace and continued well-being to you.

Waxingmoon-You said it! We need to be calm and rational...not desperate (or impatient, I might add- it's our body and it works hard, ladies.) And I also concur, RESEARCH, RESEARCH, RESEARCH, AND MORE RESEARCH. Don't believe someone else just because they said something and it sounds like they've done their homework. We need to do our own homework, too.

Yes, I think this thread is a good start and that we can take this all a step further. That's what's drawn me to certain aspects of NBE. I felt so superficial seeking out a "cure" for my small breasts, but considering the possibilities here, I felt that it would be great to give my neglecteds some attention and love, even if i never gain an inch. I did one massage, made it a little ritual (lighting a candle and aromathrerapy), and I felt so much better about my breasts and gained a new appreciation for them. I want to continue honoring them and if nothing else, it felt fantastic to have an excuse to take some time out to relax and focus on my goddess potential. Yes, and even further stepping, I like the fact that NBE also offers us an opportunity to tune-in to our general health and emotional state. Again, even if we try an approach and it doesn't work, we will have gained these important practices.

I have been looking into some of the other nbe approaches like massage, visualization (qi gong), and breast* food therapy. *The word 'boob' just sounds so dunce-like."Go sit in the corner and grow some boobs!" * I think if one wanted to be cautious and gentle, these would also be a great way to start a program before (or without) having to use herbs. Tarepanda 23 is trying this, and claims she's gotten results, just much more slowly.

Separately, Waxingmoon, I just have to say I really enjoy reading your Personal Program pages. Your posts are a treat to read. It's nice to see that someone is, like you said, not desperate and just looking at themselves (and their body) as a petrie dish of measurements and doses. Let's try to remember to be kind and forgiving to ourselves. The laughter part is definately necessary, too. I personally could use more of that in general! Thanks for reminding us...

XOXO to all. May everyone be content



This message has been edited by durga on Nov 20, 2007 10:54 PM




Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 20 2007, 10:49 PM

I've been trying to leave this thread alone but am I really the only one who's desperate enough to try anything or everything at once and hope for the best? I've become totally looks obsessed and certainly not interested in being happy how I am...just dreaming that I could look how I want and not be ashamed...I will grow boobs if it's by determination alone, I will also fix my lower body, have glowing skin and beautiful hair...if nothing else that hypnosis does make you more focussed and more positive! Good luck to everyone desperate!



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Louise
November 20 2007, 11:24 PM

Louise,-No, you are certainly not alone. If you started a new thread entitled, "Am I the only one who's desperate?" I guarantee you would get a significant response. Yes, good luck and may you find your true happiness.



This message has been edited by durga on Nov 20, 2007 11:42 PM





hopeful88
(Login Hopeful88)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 20 2007, 11:48 PM

I'm desperate too Louise, so you certainly are not alone in your feelings. While I'm not willing to do anything to extreme in order to fill my A cup bra, I do massages and use some of the basic galactogauge herbs, and I've been trying to eat more protein and such. All of this doesn't sound too extreme but its what i'm comfortable with, and I definately agree that we should all keep our health in mind before going overboard to achieve those boobie dreams. good luck everyone...



Durga
(Login durga)
SENIOR MEMBER
Ladies!!
November 21 2007, 1:03 AM

I just read the "Warning! too much estrogen can make you ill..." thread. It is a roller coaster but another valuable read.

Waxingmoon-after reading the above mentioned thread I have thought again: you rock! This forum needs more like you. I, too, enjoy your enlightened wisdom

Another thread you all might be interested in is: "Worried"(March 31, 2007). It contains more perspectives to mull regarding this topic.

I apologize for having so many posts in this particular thread. It's the first I have responded to and it's SUCH an important one...



This message has been edited by durga on Nov 21, 2007 1:06 AM




waxingmoon
(no login)
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 21 2007, 1:05 AM

Louise,
I don't think of you as desperate. I see you more as driven. To me this means that come hell or high water you are going to do what it takes to grow. Desperate means grasping for simple solutions and being unwilling to consider consequences. Usually the desperate put their little internet hands over their ears and shout out -"la la la -I can't hear you and how dare you try and tell me that putting my hand into the garbage disposal while it is working is dangerous"... lol.

Being boob (or for Durga 'breast') obsessed is a common theme for us all. We are all of us focused on what is essentially a trivial physical characteristic. However, in today's world there is far too much emphasis on the physical. I know that before beginning NBE I had a much more negative self image. Sure I have grown a little physically, but what has changed more radically is my way of thinking.

waxingmoon - still obsessed about my little rascals but much more comfortable about them being small



annie2
(Login annieboobs)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 21 2007, 5:33 PM

Interesting thread, always had those worries on the top of my head. Maybe that's why i never had any growth in NBE becoz i never stay long enough on a program , as soon as i start seeing the side effects such as bloating, weight gaining or even acne, i just stop takign my herbs. I was on wonderup for two month had a little swelling but lost it after period and was gaining lots a weight on it. i'm alway thinking if all this would mess up my ovaries or other parts of me.

Now i've been on BO for a month now and did not lost the fullness after my period ,reading this thread now makes me wanna stop. But i love the fullnes i'm getting on BO. I wonder if this can cause more harm than herbs.
I'm due for my next pops-smear so will ask my doc to do a hormone test.Coz i have most of the symptoms of excess estrogen.

Health come frist .




Jennelle
(Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 21 2007, 5:43 PM

BO is far more risky than herbs - I thought that was something everybody agreed on. Remember that herbs have a balancing action and are usually good for you. BO simply supplies raw hormones.



annie2
(Login annieboobs)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: do you really think what we're doing is safe?
November 21 2007, 5:57 PM

Thanks, for pointing that out jennelle..Think i'm gonna try the boobie food route.

[admin]

newbie..cancer?!!
February 2 2008 at 7:28 PM riya (Login riya123)

Hey Everyone,
I am a newbie from India,and I have the same prob as all you women out there!I am sick of my size,barely an A and I feel aweful about it..I am planning to use wonderup,got rave reviews about it from the forum,but I am really really scared about something
Cancer
I ve done enough research about cancer to know that it can be caused by so many things,it s in my family,a lot of my relatives have died from it.Also I am a smoker, and that itself is a big risk factor.
I am very sceptical about the long term use of these pills,I mean ,nooone has done any prper clinical trial right?like under NIH or somethin? and I ve heard it increases the risk of uterine and breast cancer.
I am nearly desperate to get into shape since it really affects my self-esteem, and makes me feel insecure when I make out,though my guy loves me a lot and has no prob at all..BUt I dont want to risk my health in any way ,so I am really in a fix..can someone please help me..any suggestions,any articles about the safety in the long term?
for all who are already using it,happy happy growing!
riya




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 2 2008, 8:10 PM

Riya,

How can you say you are really worried about cancer if you SMOKE CIGARETTES???

Yes, I am on a soapbox - but you need to re-read your post and ask yourself why you admittedly state you know that smoking is a risk factor and yet what you are worried about is.... HERBS?????

I am not trying to be rude - but COME ON!!! Not only are you risking CANCER from smoking, but you are also risking emphysema, spinal disc degeneration, skin disorders and a whole host of problems associated with the relentless loss of vitamin C - all caused by SMOKING.

Okay - I will take a breath now...

To answer your question about herbs - there is not conclusive proof that herbs will in any way enhance a woman's chances of cancer.

Many studies point to the fact that phytoestrogens are less potent than our body's natural estrogen and therefore are much more likely to be cancer preventative than causative.

Many cultures that utilize high dietary amounts of phytoestrogens have much lower rates of cancer than those who consume an 'Industrialized diet'.

Xeno-estrogens (artificial estrogens found in birth control pills, plastics, pesticides, solvents, hormones fed to meat animals... etc) are much more harmful to us and a likely cause of the industrial world cancer syndrome than any phytoestrogen.

There are some phytoestrogens that are more potent than our body's natural estrogen. They are the ones that will play havoc with a woman's cycle. Red clover is one of these. Even so - some cancer treatments use red clover as part of the treatment.

The bottom line is that any herb that is taken in too great amounts can cause problems with health. There have been many studies done with herbs to try and prove or disprove their health benefits. These studies have never drawn a causative effect between cancer and phytoestrogens.

NBE participants can feel safe if they use herbal preparations in a rational way. Any herb that is taken at above recommended dosages will cause problems. Used properly they will have positive effects -however as many have found - not necessarily increased breast growth.

The bottom line... STOP SMOKING. Then I will believe you are worried about cancer.

just my very opinionated two cents,
waxingmoon



riya
(Login riya123)
I know what you re saying
February 2 2008, 8:40 PM

Hry Waxingmoon

I am not offended and yeah that question was bound to eb asked..I am trying really hard to quit righ now,have already changed my brand to a drastically milder one, am having only HALF a cigarette maybe in two days or so ..so you see it is not like I am not aware of its ill-effects or not trying,an will stop soon..and about herbs..well I am afraid to trust something that induces a sort of second puberty,what if teh effect on hormones goes haywire, or if cells proliferate madly or something liek tat ..I know I may eb soundign too critical or crazy,but I dont want to take a chance if there is too much risk involved that is all.
thanks
riya




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 2 2008, 9:18 PM

You seem to be missing two points. Firstly, you say that cancer can be caused by many things, but you somehow forgot to mention that there are also things that can protect against cancer (such as the phytoestrogens in these herbs for example, as countries with a high consumption of phytoestrogens in their diet have lower rates of breast cancer). Secondly, you said it was long term use you were worried about, but nobody in this forum can help you with that, because nobody here has used these kind of products in the long term (presumably by long term you mean at least 5 or 10 years, whereas a single year or less is more typical use for the women here).



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 2 2008, 9:41 PM

A relevant point is also that these herbs have been used in traditional medicine for centuries if not milenia. If they would increase the risk of cancer, I think it would have been observed and known. As Waxingmoon said, few conclusive studies about herbs and cancer are available, but most doctors and professional today will incline more to the opinion that herbs are not harmful. It looks more like they protect against cancer.

And I have to agree with Waxingmoon about smoking. Know that smoking increases your risk of cancer more than anything else, it may even add a bigger risk that your genes do. It's good that you're trying to stop, but know that this is practically a must. Personally I've never smoked so I don't know first hand what it's like to stop, but both of my parents did and they both said that the cutting down method isn't the best, that you have to do this 100%, you have to throw all the cigarettes away at once and say 'that's it, no more'.
As a medicine student, I can also give you one other advice on prevention of cancer - studies show that drinking abundant ammounts of water decreases the risk of most cancers, some event as much as 40%. But you really have to get this into your lyfestyle and drink plenty of water every day, for the rest of your life. This is also recomended in NBE btw. As for that, WU is a good choice. But be sure to make good research on this site if you decide to give it a go. Good luck!



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 2 2008, 11:25 PM

I don't smoke personally because it's expensive but loads of people in my family have done and only 2 people have died in their 70s (not smoking related), everyone else has lived until their 80s and 90s. My nan is the only person in my family to have had cancer, she was diagnosed with cervical cancer at 84 and cured at 89, she died ay 94 of something else. Some people smoke all their lives and have no problems others get cancer off passive alone so it's clearly down to genetics....you could get run over by a bus tomorrow so why worry.

In response the original post, if you have an estrogen related tumour and your body is low in estrogen then theoretically the herbs could increase your estrogen and feed the tumour. Usually the herbs would be protective as they are weaker than your body's natural estrogen. Also I don't think any of these things would actually cause a new tumour to arise so have a check up and don't worry after you get the all clear.



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
newbie..cancer?!!
February 3 2008, 4:46 AM

If you would like to convince yourself of how healthy phytoestrogens really are, especially in fighting cancer, go to google.com and enter searches such as:
phytoestrogens cancer apoptosis
fenugreek cancer apoptosis
fennnel cancer apoptosis
Saw Palmetto cancer
pomegranate cancer apoptosis
red clover cancer
etc.

Do some research yourself and your confidence will increase.

If you take steps to eat right, exercise, and keep your PH level up in the alkaline zone, you will lower your chances of getting cancer significantly.



This message has been edited by Wahaika on Feb 3, 2008 4:48 AM




riya
(Login riya123)
how long has it been around?
February 3 2008, 6:01 PM

thanks everyone,
that sounds good, I ve been debating pills for over a year now! gave up somewhere in between, I want to do it now if it's worth a try...I can see that some women have had success with WU, and I dislike a lot of the flashy websites that brag about their products,the WU site seems more real.Can someone tell me how old WU has been around for?Also teh success rate it has had?thanks for the luck
riya



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 3 2008, 8:23 PM

As far as I know it's been around for at least 5 years and success judging by this forum seems to be maybe 50-60% so definitely not worked for everyone but then a lot of people have given up early due to the cost and you haven't really given it a fair trial if you give up in less than 6 months. Even the website says some people need over 11 months but then do get growth. Obviously it's in their interest to make you keep taking them but some people definitely take longer to respond than others.



Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 3 2008, 9:06 PM

There is also a poll on WU in the surveys section. But not so many people have voted as have used WU.



Felicity
(no login)
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 4 2008, 7:59 AM

I think Wonderup must have been around for a lot more than 5 years, as someone here said they used it in 1999.



riya
(Login riya123)
vitex ,cocoa butter and WU?
February 4 2008, 5:27 PM

Thanks
I ask that question because obviously the longer a product stays, the more credible it gtes right? If I had not found WU, I would prolly go for Bountiful breasts for that reason, and also because they are the only ones awaiting a patent? anyone had success with BB? well, of course this question is so redundant but can someone please please tell me what works best WITH WU? I was thinkin of maybe cocoa butter ith Vit E ..heard rave reviews bout it..or vitex..that I am not so sure..vitex is taken for menstrual pain right? someone here had tremendous success with just vitex..but I dont have the slightest pain during my periods and I dont know if it can be taken then IF it's useful with WU at all.I dont think I ll be able to afford the cream with WU, so I need some catalyst, and only you all can guide me with it.If someone had good success with a WU combo with something else, please tell me, any advice would be great !
thanks
riya



Mary
(no login)
Re: newbie..cancer?!!
February 4 2008, 3:23 PM

The patent pending thing is a joke, I'm afraid to say, because BB have been saying that for about 10 years.

[admin]

BREAST GROWTH=CANCER!!!
January 16 2006 at 6:24 PM Lisa Fitterer (Login browneyedgirl15)

Hey everyone,

I was just wondering what infromation you girls have collected about the link between increasing your breast size by natural methods(of herbs/BE product) and breast cancer. I have been reading up a lot on the subject of herbal breast enhancment (because being a AA, and considering implants too risky, I see herbal breast enhancement as my last option). I have read on a number of websites that if you were to actually suceed at enhancing your breast with herbs/BE pills you would be in turn increasing your risk of breast cancer. Many articles say that you cannot have one without the other. Does anyone have more information about this??? Any advice is helpful.

Thanks,
Browneyedgirl




SugarQ
(no login)
Re: BREAST GROWTH=CANCER!!!
January 17 2006, 4:23 AM

this subject has a lot of interesting opinions. IMO there may be a risk but so far no one knows for sure. herbs may actually help prevent cancer (some say) but the truth is that its hard to say. you need to first understand how natural estrogen works to great cancer cells and you need how phytoestrogens work in the body (many theories but no one knows for sure). so far there hasnt been a cancer scare on any forum where nbe is discussed. some forums have been discussing nbe at least since 1999 and thousands of women have used these nbe formula brands and individual herbs without much too much worries of cancer but there may be other problems that are hormone related that come up from time to time. sometimes they are serious problems.



Molly
(no login)
Phytoestrogens
January 17 2006, 8:03 AM

To be fair, you ought to have pointed out that most authorities do not agree with this idea and also it would have been worth saying that the general medical outlook on phytoestrogens is highly favourable. For balance, you should have stated that only a small minority of articles promote the idea you mention and most others are completely against it.



Tabitha
(no login)
Study
January 17 2006, 11:18 AM

There is a clinical study on phytoestrogens and cancer which concluded that dietary intake of phytoestrogens significantly REDUCES THE RISK OF CANCER. When I say study I mean a published study (even published in The Lancet). It is also well known that the higher the intake of phytoestrogens in the national diet the lower the rate of breast cancer. Japan has the world's highest intake of dietary phytoestrogens but the world's lowest rate of breast cancer.



SugarQ
(no login)
Re: Study
January 17 2006, 4:00 PM

there are a lot of interesting opinions floating around from studies and researchers, but i dont know if i believe any studies or researchers too much mainly becuase you can find "studies" that suggest that herbs do or dont cause cancer. its been a while since i did research on this topic but from what i remember last i read something(cant remember if it was a published study) about fennel causing cell growth in the mammary tissue of mice. im having trouble finding anything related to that righ now so if someone heard something like this and have a site with more info them please help me out. the fear behind herbs and cancer is weither or not it causes cell growth. if it does then it could mean that abnormal cell growth also has the potential to occure .http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estrogenherbdata.html#table1 this is on site i found that talks about phyoestrogen. i personally am cant understand what this experiement is suppose to find out but i see cancer and estradiol together. maybe someone can make some sence out of it.




prettysoulful
(no login)
Re: BREAST GROWTH=CANCER!!!
January 18 2006, 3:26 PM

I can not speak to the validity of all the studies as they pertain to breast growth and cancer. But I can say that the two main herbs that I use and recommend have been used for centuries as food and medicine. Fenugreek is used around the world in food everyday, and while the dosages we use for BE are significantly greater than a basic meal, this same herb has been used and suggested for nursing mothers in dosages higher than what is suggested for BE with few side effects and no links to cancer. The saw palmetto has been studied for safety and effectiveness in men for the past decade or so, but has been used for female issues for over a century, again with no links to increased cancer risks.

For me, this knowledge, coupled with the many studies that support the benefits of phytoestrogens, plus the lack of any studies that clearly link phytohormones to cancer, and I feel fairly comfortable with NBE.



Anna
(no login)
Saw Palmetto
January 18 2006, 6:03 PM

http://cancer.ucsd.edu/Outreach/PublicEd...almeto.asp

This is a page from the Cancer Center at the University of California on how using Saw Palmetto can help with the symptoms of cancer.




Trudie
(no login)
Re: BREAST GROWTH=CANCER!!!
January 22 2006, 10:16 AM

Red Clover has often been described as the world's leading anti-cancer herb.



Judith
(no login)
Re: BREAST GROWTH=CANCER!!!
January 22 2006, 6:28 PM

I thought Saw palmetto was supposed to help PROTECT men against certain cancers.



Shirley
(no login)
Phytoestrogens Reduce Risk for Cancer
January 22 2006, 7:34 PM

The following article "Phytoestrogens Reduce Risk for Cancer" is taken from http://www.womenlivingnaturally.com/arti...php?id=107

"In a study published in Environmental Health Perspectives, researchers reported that, in addition to their benefits for the glandular system, phytoestrogens have been shown to have antioxidant activity and can influence intracellular enzymes, protein synthesis, growth factor action, and cell proliferation in a way that makes them "strong candidates for a role as natural cancer-protective compounds." The authors point out that countries or regions that consume the highest amounts of phytoestrogens also tend to have the lowest cancer rates. In another study published in the Journal of Epidemiology foods high in phytoestrogens were found to have a protective effect against endometrial cancer. In this nine-year study involving over 800 women, those who ate a diet rich in phytoestrogens showed a 54 percent reduction in the incidence of this cancer".

[admin]

Contridictions over herbs and Breast Cancer
March 24 2006 at 7:16 PM Lanie40 (Login Lanie40)
EVE MEMBERS

Hi everyone, been researching and every site is different when it comes to fennel and fenugreek, red clover. The only herb that never got mentioned being to linked to breast cancer was wild yam. As for the others some sites say they are good for you and then the next site say they are bad for you. They say to avoid soy and herbs that effect hormone levels, and yet a magizine I picked up at the health food store said that soy and asian herbs help protect the breast from cancer. So I am now so confused, what should you believe.




SugarQ
(Login SugarQ)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Contridictions over herbs and Breast Cancer
March 24 2006, 7:48 PM

this is a good example to the fact that NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE. there are theories and experiments that go back and forth contradicting one another. right now the main idea around all the forums is that the herbs are pretty safe .we know to have NBE we need to have new tissue growth in the breast anything that causes new tissue growth can also help to stimulate cancer cell growth which is why there are warning about herbs and NBE. but the thing is we dont know exactly how herbs cause NBE. their estrogens are far too weak to just stimulate tissue growth like estradiol would. women with high estradiol levels tend to have bigger breasts and a higher cancer risk.Phytoestrogen seem to help to lower estradiol's activity in the body so it should lower cancer risks but then how does phytoestrogens work for NBE if it lowers estrogen levels?

Now thats the tricky question. even brava has a cancer risk and company warns about that and they ask women if they have a hystory of breast cancer before they start the program. thats because the brava stimulates tissue growth(without adding hormones). the truth is anything that stimulates tissue growth has the potential for stimulating cancer as well. herbs may not directly cause cell or tissue growth but if you try to connect their possible activity to the brava then we can theorize that they cause breast swelling (like the brava) and the pressure and tesion that is produced stimulates new tissue growth and thus allowing NBE to be perminant. thats just one idea.

i think herbs are pretty safe but you still need to be careful no matter what anyone thinks or says. many women will say its safe and may people eat these herbs every day and nothing happens to them which is true but most people dont take these herbs at the high dosages many women here take them at.

i hope i make sense here. you shouldnt worry but still be careful.



Lanie40
(Login Lanie40)
EVE MEMBERS
So much to filter. SugarQ.
March 25 2006, 11:24 AM

Won't even look at a site tryingto sell something, cause you know they are going to say its good for you. I'v been trying to find medical sites and they can't even agree. So I will keep searching. Thanks for your input SugarQ. Noticed your name on other forums, your a busy bee. How do you remember so much info. I can't even spell alot of terms(estrogens I read about) and trying to keep them filed good or bad is even harder. My hats off to you for aguiring so much education about this subject SugarQ. Maybe some day you should right your own book like Lucille did. Something to think about!!!




Sunset
(Login liquidSunset)
EVE MEMBERS
A book
March 26 2006, 2:33 AM

I agree SugarQ you know lots of stuff and seem to remember it all so well too.
You should at least think about making a book to teach about NBE. or hormones and boobie biology or something, even if you dont write about a "sure fire method" all that other stuff is equally important to know about before doing NBE. I agree-You should give it a thought

[admin]

BE and Breast cancer
July 31 2008 at 5:21 AM f'_cups_desired (no login)

Breast cancer is to some extent preventable through diet and exercise etc., but does stuff like nbe encourage cancer? Is anyone here practicing nbe with breast cancer in their family? Is NBE safe to try if Breast cancer runs in the family even if you have a clean diet? Are you still taking a risk if you do it?




Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: BE and Breast cancer
July 31 2008, 9:32 AM

I think it was my great aunt that had breast cancer yes. I still decided to do NBE. I don't believe it's very likely NBE could encourage cancer, tho I guess you can never know for sure. I chose to take that risk.



Jojo
(Login PrincessJojo)
SENIOR MEMBER
BE and Breast cancer
August 1 2008, 4:29 AM

I have been researching this prospect as I really want to try the NBE program, bought all my herbs but am giving more time to ponder. Google natural estrogens and you will get lots of information. From what I have researched so far, people believe that the natural estrogens are better than man made however it is all new and without long term use (like for menopausal women), more time is needed to figure it out. Anywhere where there is tissue growth or change in the body is where cancer is more prevalent. My Aunty has recently had breast cancer, so it's in my family so it certainly makes me think. She has been on hormone replacements (man made)and has had to come off altogether. Don't know if any of this helps you




Ewa
(no login)
NBE & risk of breast cancer ???
August 4 2008 at 9:26 PM

That,s what I found on iHerb.com:

The hormone estrogen, if taken in high enough doses, increases breast size by stimulating growth of breast tissue. However, it is not safe to use estrogen in this way, because when breast cells are stimulated to grow, they are more likely to turn cancerous. A woman who took enough estrogen to enlarge her breasts would greatly increase her risk of breast cancer.

Many herbs and supplements provided in breast enhancement products are included there because they act somewhat like estrogen in the body.
These substances are called phytoestrogens, meaning “plant-based estrogens,"

According to manufacturers of breast enhancement products, phytoestrogens can enlarge the breasts, like estrogen, but without incurring estrogen’s risks.

However, there are several problems with this hypothesis.

Perhaps the most important is that phytoestrogens generally act to decrease the estrogen-related functions of the body, rather than increase them. Here’s why: natural human estrogen exerts its effects in the body by latching on to special sites on cells called estrogen receptors. Phytoestrogens also latch on to estrogen receptors. However, when they do so, they only produce a partial effect. In addition, they block the ability of real estrogen to bind to those receptors. The net effect in women of menstrual age is to reduce the action of estrogen. This may be a very useful effect because, in theory, it could decrease a woman’s chance of developing breast cancer. However, the same line of reasoning suggests that phytoestrogens should decrease breast size, not increase it.

Furthermore, studies indicate that many breast enhancement products do not even contain substantial amounts of phytoestrogens. 1,2

In any case, if a breast enhancement product were to contain a powerful phytoestrogen in sufficient quantities to actually stimulate growth of breast cells (a very big if), it would also increase the risk of breast cancer! You can’t get one effect without the other. Measurement of estrogenic breast cell stimulation is, in fact, one way of determining the breast cancer risk posed by a substance under study, whether it is a supplement or an environmental contaminant.

Thus, there is no particular reason to believe that phytoestrogens can enhance breast size, nor, it they did, that they would produce such an effect safely.


you can find a whole article here:

http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=e0498803-7f62-4563-8d47-5fe33da65dd4&chunkiid=35539


What do you think of it?
I'm almost ready to start NBE but still searching and thinking ...




Jennelle
(Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: NBE & risk of breast cancer ???
August 5 2008, 6:45 AM

There's nothing new in that, to be honest. If you read through this forum the usual view taken here is that phytoestrogens protect against breast cancer. Articles like that one claiming that phytoestrogens don't enhance breast size are actually pointless, because in this forum there are many women who have clearly been successful with phytoestrogens, whatever other people may say.




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: NBE & risk of breast cancer ???
August 8 2006, 7:06 AM

Just to repeat what I have posted previously, if you read more widely you will find that the general view is that phytoestrogens protect against breast cancer. Countries that have a high rate of phytoestrogen consumption in their diets have lower rates of breast cancer and the country with the very highest natural consumption of phytoestrogens of all has the very lowest rate of breast cancer. But when women in those countries emigrate to the West and start eating typical Western diets their incidence of breast cancer rises to normal Western levels. There was also a major clinical study conducted on this subject which concluded not only that phytoestrogens provide protection against breast cancer, but that the degree of protection against breast cancer appeared to be significant.

[admin]

breast cancer risks
May 20 2005 at 3:19 PM lynda (no login)

I am thinking about starting on wonderup but i am hesitant as i am not sure if there is any increased risk of breast cancer. You hear so much about the risks associated with changing hormonal balance in our bodies and I was wondering if anyone else has read anything about this.




Yvette
(no login)
Breast cancer protection
May 20 2005, 3:32 PM

There is a study somewhere that shows that these nutrients offer significant protection against breast cancer. If I can find the reference I''ll post it. The point is that all women would be well advised to take these kind of nutrients in order to reduce their risk of breast cancer.



Luana
(no login)
Re: Breast cancer protection
May 20 2005, 6:02 PM

Yvette is right, you have got things upside down. Products like Wonderup you mentioned are a marvellous protection against breast cancer. Look at it this way, the countries with a high intake of these nutrients generally have a low rate of breast cancer. The country with the highest intake of these nutrients of all is Japan and it has the lowest rate of breast cancer of all. Does that answer your question?



Claudia
(no login)
Re: Breast cancer protection
May 22 2005, 3:52 PM

There is also a study which looks at what happens when Japanese women emigrate. This found that when Japanese women went to live in Western countries and started to eat a typical western diet their chances of getting breast cancer rose to normal Western levels. Therefore it seems that the Japanese diet is protective against braest cancer and that we should look to eat more of these kind of nutrients and not less of them.



Massous
(no login)
Breast Cancer Risks
June 1 2005, 11:44 PM

Hi all,

PLease, view this web site for info: " http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/medals.cmms/alternate.htm ".

Good Luck



Preeti
(no login)
Breast Cancer Risks
June 4 2005, 9:16 AM

There is really no consensus on this issue. Even medical websites don't agree on the subject.

[admin]

BE increasing uterine cancer?
December 22 2006 at 1:54 PM snowfalling (Login snowdropsfalling)

Does anyone know if that's true? I've been reading that BC how that increases some temporary volume by increasing estrogen but it also contains progesterone to counteract that and to prevent uterine cancer. And how fennel which contains that increase breast tissue in rats, but also in their uterine.




snowfalling
(Login snowdropsfalling)
BO
December 22 2006, 1:59 PM

I also found this on BO:
Bovine Ovary Extract - There are no published studies of the safety or effectiveness of bovine ovary extract in humans. Unlike the other herbs discussed here, websites selling the product say that bovine ovary extract stimulates the pituitary gland resulting in an increase in prolactin and growth hormone levels.

If this is true, there are potential risks. Prolactin is a hormone that rises almost ten-fold during pregnancy to stimulate breast development and milk formation. High levels of prolactin can cause infertility, irregular menstruation, reduced libido, and possibly increase the risk of stroke.

Growth hormone is needed to stimulate growth in children. High levels of growth hormone in adults who don't need it can cause the development of diabetes, abnormal growth of bones and internal organs such as the heart, kidneys, and liver, high blood pressure, and atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries).




MyJourney
(Login Myjourney)
NBE=Cancer?
March 21 2007 at 2:51 PM

I am not sure I would jump to that conclusion. A site I quoted before (Annieappleseedproject) seems to be research for those with cancer or with a history of cancer in their families, and want to avoid cancer causing things.
We know that in studies the animals are given very high doses of substances...and the substances may not cause cancer in lower doses in normal individuals...
I think most of us here are paying attention to our bodies signals...and using herbs etc. in a manner that is responsible.

Consider this article:

"PHYTOESTROGENS - FRIENDS OR FOES?
CAN PLANT HORMONES HELP WOMEN IN MENOPAUSE? DO THEY AFFECT BREAST CANCER?
~2002, Susun S. Weed
Phytoestrogens are weak hormones found in many plants. They are currently being promoted, sometimes in highly refined forms, for relief of the symptoms of menopause. Are they safe~ Can they promote breast cancer~

We know that increased exposure to hormones - such as those used in the cattle industry, those given to women during menopause, those taken by women engaged in hi-tech pregnancy efforts, and even those naturally produced by our own bodies - increases our risk of being diagnosed with cancer, especially breast cancer. And many believe that hormone-like chemicals - xenoestrogens - increasingly found in our food and water, contribute to cancer as well. Doesn't that imply that phytoestrogens will increase cancer risk too~

Virtually everything we eat - grains, beans, nuts, seeds, seed oils, berries, fruits, vegetables, and roots - contains phytoestrogens. Scientists measuring the amount of phytoestrogen break-down by-products in the urine of healthy women found that those with the least were four times more likely to be diagnosed with breast cancer than with the most. Phytoestrogens actually appear to protect tissues from the cancer-causing effects of xenoestrogens and other hormonal pollutants.

This seems simple - eat more phytoestrogens, be healthier - and it is, so long as we restrict ourselves to eating plants. But when the difference between food and medicine is disregarded, when phytoestrogens are isolated and concentrated, sold to us in pills and candy bars, then the equation changes: phytoestrogens become dangerous hormones, quite capable of promoting cancer."

Another excerpt:

".......................Phytoestrogenic foods are the basis for a healthy diet and a long life. The first food listed is the highest in phytoestrogens. The best diet contains not just one but many choices from each list:

~ Whole grains (rye, oats, barley, millet, rice, wheat, corn)
~ Edible seeds (buckwheat, sesame, sunflower, pumpkin, amaranth, quinoa)
~ Beans (yellow split peas, black turtle beans, baby limas, Anasazi beans, red kidney beans, red lentils, soy beans)
~ Leafy greens and seaweed (parsley, nettle, kelp, cabbage, broccoli, kale, collards, lamb's quarter)
~ Fruits (olives, cherries, grapes, apples, pears, peaches, plums, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, salmon berries, apricots, crab apples, quinces, rosehips, blueberries)
~ Olive oil and seed oils
~ Garlic, onions and their relatives leeks, chives, scallions, ramps, shallot

The exceptions to the rule that plants don't contain human hormones:

~ French beans, rice, apple seeds, licorice, and pomegranate seeds contain the “weak” estrogen estrone.

Phytoestrogenic food-like herbs are generally considered longevity tonics. For optimum effect, use only one from the list below and to stick with it for at least three months:

~ Citrus peel, dandelion leaves and/or roots, fenugreek seeds, flax seeds, green tea, hops, red clover, red wine.

Phytoestrogenic herbs are usually too powerful for long-term use. From the list below (which is in alphabetical order), it is safest to use only one herb at a time, and use it only when needed, although that may mean daily use for several months. More information about these herbs, including specific dosages and cautions, is in New Menopausal Years the Wise Woman Way.

~ Agave root, black cohosh root, black currant, black haw, chasteberries, cramp bark, dong quai root, devil's club root, false unicorn root, ginseng root, groundsel herb, licorice, liferoot herb, motherwort herb, peony root, raspberry leaves, rose family plants (most parts), sage leaves, sarsaparilla root, saw palmetto berries, wild yam root, yarrow blossoms.

4. Most of the warnings about phytoestrogenic herbs center on their proven ability to thicken the uterine wall in animals who have had their ovaries removed. This could encourage cancer, just as taking ERT encourages cancer of the uterus by stimulating cell growth. Women without ovaries are probably safe eating phytoestrogenic foods, but may want to use phytoestrogenic herbs - especially ginseng, dong quai, licorice, red clover, and wild yam - in small amounts and only for short periods.

Phytoestrogens can be our friends. In a world that seems increasingly hostile and threatening, green allies offer us ways to stay safe and healthy, so long as we use them with wisdom and honor.................................."

Here is a link to the whole article:
http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Phytoestrogens.htm

My concern in my original post was for young girls who come to this forum wanting boobs and not wanting to wait until they are through puberty to see if they need "help" If they already have hormonal issues..I would be concerned that messing with nature at that point with STRONG herbals could have a negative longe term effect. My (not medical or in any way totally knowledgable) would be to guide these girls to boobie friendly foods, and mild herbals that are nourishing instead of tonic.




deborah
(Login forme2know)
PM not for those under 20 years old...
March 22 2007, 3:41 AM

PM shouldn't be used buy girls that have not finished their natural growth ---even the makers of st herb state this in there product literature...

Deborah



Anonymous
(no login)
Re: NBE=Cancer? for Anonymous
March 22 2007, 12:46 PM

Your post made me worry that herbs can cause cancer.Does anyone know the doses that are used on mice for experiments?

I found this online:
http://www.sensiblehealth.com/estrogen.html


The controversy about plant estrogens or phytoestrogens

There seems to be a common misconception in the natural health community that women with high estrogen levels should take phytoestrogen (plant estrogen) because phytoestrogens are "protective estrogens" which reduce estrogenic activity. It is believed that phytoestrogens compete with endogenous estrogens for estrogen receptors. When the estrogen receptors are occupied by phytoestrogens, cell divisions are reduced because phytoestrogens are "weak estrogens". This theory made sense to me until my own experience showed otherwise. With my endometriosis, my pain level was a measurement for my condition. When I tried Don Quei, Licorice, Ginseng and Royal Jelly, I did feel better initially for a few weeks because they helped my blood circulation. As I continued to take these remedies, my pain would come back with a vengeance, more severe than before. I realized that weak estrogens could add up significantly if given enough time. I believe that many women are misled by initial feelings of wellness without realizing that longer periods of usage actually makes the problem worse. Many other endometriosis sufferers that I know also have had similar experiences with phytoestrogen. After my personal experience, my belief is that weak plant estrogens may replace our own more potent estrogens for receptor sites, but our own estrogens still have to go somewhere if the liver is incapable of eliminating them.

In Townsend Letters for Doctors and Patients (January, 1997 issue), Ray Peat, a renowned biologist in the U.S., stated that "the concept of a protective estrogen is very similar to the idea of protective mutagens or protective carcinogens". He mentioned that "Alexander Lipshuts demonstrated that a continuous, weak estrogenic stimulus was immensely effective in producing first fibromas, then cancer, in one organ after another, and the effect was not limited to the reproductive system". For example, the brain and liver, which also have estrogen receptors, may grow tumours too.

Interestingly, one of the three common estrogens, Estriol, has similar properties. Being a less potent cell stimulant, Estriol was once classified as an estrogen antagonist. In the book Estrogens in the Environment [see Reference 1 at the end of this section], it was mentioned "because it failed to induce breast tumors in susceptible rodent strains and appeared to block such induction by Estradiol and Estrone, it was considered to be a safe estrogen". However, later studies showed that Estriol was safe only if it was administered as a single injection. A continuous administration of Estriol showed the same responses from that induced by Estradiol which is the most potent estrogen. Continuous administration of Estriol was also shown to induce breast tumors in rodents.

Estriol has been suggested as having a protective role in breast cancer based on the observation that oriental women who have a high [Estriol/(Estradiol + Estrone)] ratio in their blood also have a low incidence of breast cancer [see Reference 1 at the end of this section]. Soya bean (contains phytoestrogen) has also been suggested as being protective in breast cancer because Japanese women who consume much more soya bean than Western women have lower incidence of breast cancer. My observation is that in the past oriental women took much less medical drugs including painkillers compared to women in Western societies. However oriental breast cancer incidence has gone up significantly in recent years even though soya bean products are still consumed there much more than in Western societies. I believe this trend may in part be due to increased consumption of medications. The American Liver Foundation stated that the amount of medicine consumed has increased greatly with resulting dangers to the liver. The elevated estrogen level caused by a weak liver may not be detected in blood tests because blood estrogen levels do not necessarily reflect estrogen levels in tissues. Estrogen levels in the tissues cannot be measured.

Estrogens bind to sodium which retains water. That is why many women who take estrogen therapy may find significant weight gain. The fact that estrogen therapy weakens both liver and kidneys and therefore slows down the metabolism may also aggravate weight problems.



http://wholemothermuslima.blogspot.com/2...rt-ii.html

Hormone Based Contraceptives

The Pill: A Short History
When most of us think of birth control the first thing that comes to mind is the birth control pill. Though birth control pills have only been around for the last 40 years, hormone based contraceptives have a very long history among womankind. 4000 years ago Egyptians ground up pomegranate seeds and mixed them with wax to form what may well have been the first birth control pill. We now know that pomegrante seeds contain a natural estrogen, so it is likely that this concoction prevented ovulation! There is also recorded evidence that the ancient Greeks used a pomegranate seed based birth control method. It is not a far stretch to assume that Muslims too have been using this hormone based contraceptive for centuries as the famous Muslim scientist Ibn Sina (Avicenna 980-1037) prescribed pomegranate as a postcoital contraceptive.





Myjourney
(Login Myjourney)
Thanks, Deborah...
March 22 2007, 2:35 PM

That is great info...I think maybe other products should discuss it too. PM is a strong herb, and so are some others. PM arguably too strong.

[admin]

Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008 at 7:17 PM Sunflower (Login ssunflower)

Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer? Wouldn't that make some NBE programs dangerous?




El
(no login)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 7:24 PM

That's a possibility, yes. You have to do your research and weight the decision for yourself. It's a risk some either don't believe in or are willing to take.




Sunflower
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:20 PM

hmmmmm......i thought it was just the synthetic hormones that caused cancer....something to think about.



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:22 PM

Most of these things are supposed to be beneficial as they block estrogen receptors. I think it's established that nothing you take will cause a new tumour to arise but if you have an existing tumour and you raise your estrogen you'll be feeding it.




Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:48 PM

As has been mentioned here before, countries with the highest intake of phytoestrogens in their daily diet actually have the LOWEST rates of breast cancer.



Izumi
(no login)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 17 2008, 4:05 AM

I've read that SOME cancers are estrogen-dependent, but not all of them. I have no scientific expertise, but here's how I've chosen to look at it. If you have an estrogen-dependent cancer, then excess phytoestrogens would probably make it grow; but if you don't have that type of cancer then it probably wouldn't have ill effect. I feel like the reality must be more complex than "estrogen causes cancer." I've also read that a lot of synthetic chemicals in our food and environment have estrogen-like effects on our bodies. Those are probably much more dangerous than herbs.



mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 18 2008, 10:40 PM

short answer, yes. long answer, if you have too much estrogen, way more than your body is supposed to make, then it can increase chances of getting mainly female related cancers [breast, ovarian, uterus, etc.]
typically phytoestrogens dont increase your estrogen higher than you're supposed to have, some women just have lower levels of estrogen and the herbs can increase that to a normal level or maybe a bit higher to encourage breast growth. HOWEVER, it is still possible that the herbs can increase them to abnormally high levels. you just have to be vigilant.

and like what was stated before, if you have any tumors or come susceptibility/sensitivity to estrogen it is more likely to cause cancer. you should make sure you are in good health before starting NBE.



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 18 2008, 10:51 PM

I've done more reading on this today, mainly with reference to increased progesterone but it's the same for both. The answer seems to be that if you elevate the level of one or other of the sex hormones (not both) you risk cancer (I think it's estrogen for the uterus and progesterone to the breast) but if you look at the doses they refer to they're massive. Even if you bought HRT and ate the whole pack daily you'd barely get to the doses they're talking about. Also, it's a small increase in the longterm risk which increases with the treatment duration and then reduces back to normal after you stop. Most of them seem to think 5+ years or sometimes 10+ years carry a significant risk (and then it's like a 2% increase) and I don't think any of us will bother to do it for that long! Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your background) the risks are much higher if you have positive family history compared to someone with no family history who takes hormones. Don't forget the articles telling you these things cause cancer are mainly based on birth control and HRT which are a lot stronger and yet loads of us are on the pill.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 19 2008, 4:31 PM

Hi all,

Great discussion and good posts. I just wanted to add my .02 cents (in waxingmoon speak about $1.95 worth of words... lol)

It is estrogen increased without supported progesterone that was proven to cause cancer. Thus giving women estrogen only pills caused a serious rise in uterine cancer. They no longer will proscribe estrogen only pills unless the woman has had a hysterectomy.

As far as phytoestrogens, the effect on total estrogen levels in our bodies is dose and potency dependent.

1. If you take small amounts of a phytoestrogen whatever its potency, you will add to your body's total estrogen amount because the phytoestrogen molecules take up vacant estrogen receptor sites. The higher the potency of the phytoestrogen, the higher the rise of total body estrogen.

2. If you take large amounts of a phytoestrogen that has a low potency (like crushed flax seed) you will decrease your body's total estrogen. The phytoestrogen molecules will take up sites normally occupied by the body's own more potent estrogen, thus there is less total body estrogen.

3. If you take large amounts of a phytoestrogen that has a higher potency than the body's natural estrogen (like PM) you will increase your body's total estrogen. The phytoestrogen molecules will take up the sites normally occupied by the body's less potent estrogen and thus there will be a rise in total body estrogen.

4. If you mix phytoestrogens that have high and low potency, the lower potency phytoestrogens will occupy some sites and the higher dosage phytoestrogens will occupy some sites, which will average the two potencies. This is why it is advised not to use PM or BO with other phytoestrogens. It lowers the total effect.


So anyway, my $1.95 is done...

waxingmoon

[admin]

ANTI BREAST CANCER(looong post)
May 24 2008 at 7:31 AM
may (Login Cselestyna)

hey ladies! i found some stuff on anti breast cancer that i thought would be helpful! it also has some information on phyto-estrogens and its role in breast cancer. so here it is!
-------------------------------------------------------------

FIGHTING CANCER WITH SOY AND OTHER
POPULAR CHINESE FOODS

One out of three people alive today in the United States will ultimately die of cancer. More and more often, people in this country, including health professionals, are questioning the conventional treatments for cancer. Are surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation therapy the only options for cancer patients? Interestingly, since surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation therapy became the standard treatments for all cancer patients, data indicates no improvement in either the incidence of cancer or the survival rate. Many people are now turning to Eastern medicine to try to find an answer. Increasing numbers of people ask me how Chinese medicine deals with cancer: if there is hope for a cure, and what preventive methods are used.

We all know that many types of cancers are diet-related. It is estimated that 60% of cancers in women are diet-related. Evidence shows that some foods increase the likelihood of developing cancer, while others reduce the likelihood of developing cancer. In Chinese medicine, diet is considered to be a major factor in cancer prevention. Many foods have been tested scientifically and found to contain anti-cancer agents. Some of the most exciting research has been done on soy beans and soy food products.

Soy beans are considered to be one of the five sacred foods in China. For a typical Chinese family, every meal includes soy foods: soy milk for breakfast; tofu salad at lunch; tofu and vegetable stir-fry for dinner. Even at a formal banquet, you would see many soy-based dishes, often marinated with garlic, sesame, soy sauce, or ginger. Soy products can be easily made into noodles, breads, and snack foods, and are wonderful substitutes for meat, chicken, eggs, and cow�s milk.

Although Asian people have long claimed that soy foods promote increased health and longevity, it is only recently that Western researchers got around to performing scientifically controlled, double-blind studies on soy beans and their chemical constituents. When Asian scientists pointed out that cases of breast cancer and prostate cancer are significantly lower in Asian countries than in Western countries, and attributed this fact to diet; and when it was further pointed out that American women who consume soy foods have a fifty-percent lower incidence of cancer than women who don�t eat soy, many Western scientists decided it was time to investigate these phenomena.

So far, it has been discovered that soy beans contain at least five known anti-cancer agents, including protease inhibitors, phytoestrogens, saponins, and genistein. People have aware for decades that soy beans contain protease inhibitors, but it was thought that protease inhibitors interfered with proper digestion, so they were actually removed from all soy products produced in the United States. Only now are protease inhibitors recognized as valuable cancer fighters that inhibit tumor growth by inhibiting the action of certain enzymes that promote tumor growth.

Most people, including most health professionals, had never heard about genistein until 1993, when Dr. Herman Adlercreutz�s research on prostate cancer was cited in the Wall Street Journal. Genistein, a type of phytoestrogen, blocks the signal that triggers normal cells to become cancer cells, and is extremely effective in stopping the growth and spread of prostate cancer. Scientists have speculated that genistein may even be used as a cancer treatment. Although more than three hundred plants contain phytoestrogens, only soy beans produce genistein.

Phytoestrogens, which are heavily concentrated in soy, seem to create a favorable hormonal environment which prevents certain cancers from developing, especially breast cancer. The phytoestrogens in soy have a similar chemical structure to the estrogen produced by the body, but phytoestrogens are considered to be "weaker" than the body�s natural estrogen. "Strong" estrogens which bind to the body�s estrogen receptors are recognized as being a triggering mechanism in the development of breast cancer. Unfortunately, the women in "advanced" countries have not only their naturally-produced estrogen to deal with, but also the strong estrogens that come from the environment � from water, from meat, or leached into our foods and beverages from plastic containers. When soy is consumed, the natural weaker estrogen in the soy binds with the body�s estrogen receptors, thus leaving fewer estrogen receptors available for the risky, stronger estrogen which is then discharged harmlessly from the body. The faster strong estrogens are metabolized and discharged, the less damage they can cause.

Until recently, soy beans have been under-appreciated in this country, and are often associated with animal fodder or extreme poverty. When I first came to America, I would extol soy foods to my patients, only to be met with skepticism. "Soy beans? That�s cow food," said one. A journalist told me he had eaten a lot of soy foods when he was a poor student. It is a big challenge for Americans to switch from meat and potatoes to tofu and soy milk, but health-conscious people are beginning to change. Increasingly, people come to my clinic for consultations on cooking and eating soy foods. I have heard of women who rushed out to the grocery store to buy soy when they heard about its potential to prevent breast cancer. I am so glad that people here in the United States have finally begun to recognize the benefits of these "Cinderella beans."

Now that a variety of soy products are available in many city markets, it is well to recognize that some of them contain more phytoestrogens than others. In order to enjoy the maximum benefit from soy foods, I recommend that you purchase organically-grown soy beans whenever possible, and learn to make your own soymilk at home. Included in this section is a recipe for soymilk, as well as a delicious vegetable stir-fry recipe.


Making Soymilk at Home
Step 1. Preparing the soybeans: Soak 1 cup of dried soybeans with three cups of cold water, 8 hours.
Step 2. Grinding the soybeans: Grind the soaked soybeans in a blender at high speed for one minute into a fine slurry, half cup of soaked soybeans with 3 cups of water.
Step 3. Straining the soymilk: Use a piece of nylon mesh to strain the soymilk into a pot or a large bowl.
Step 4. Cooking the soymilk: Cook the soymilk on a medium flame, boiling it for 5-10 minutes.
Step 5. Flavor the soymilk (if you like), and keep it in the refrigerator. Drink it every day. Nutritious and delicious.
Besides soy products, other cancer-preventing foods which are popular in China include green tea, cabbage, shiitake mushrooms, garlic, kelp, carrots, and cauliflower.

-------------------------------------------------------------
GREEN TEA- the most popular drink in China, Japan and other Asian countries, contains powerful anti-cancer substances called catechins. Many studies show that green tea can dramatically block the development of various cancers. Epigallocatechin gallate (one of the most potent catechins) is found in the highest concentrations in green tea. People confuse green tea with black tea, Oolong tea, Jasmine tea, and many other Asian teas. All tea is made from leaves picked from the same plant � the difference is in the processing. Green tea leaves are simply picked and sun-dried; other teas are either fermented or cooked. It is the lack of processing that makes green tea contain the most potent anti-cancer agents. A leading physician, Dr. Hirota Fujiki, at Japan�s National Cancer Center Research Institute, claims that drinking green tea could be one of the most practical methods of cancer prevention available to the general public at present.

CABBAGE- the most popular vegetable in the northern part of China, can be found in many traditional dishes, including stir-fry vegetables and dumplings. The Chinese value it, not only for its good taste, but also for its wonderful anti-cancer effect. Studies show that cabbage can speed up the metabolism of estrogen in the body. It is thought that slower metabolism of estrogen promotes breast cancer. Another very interesting study done on cabbage concerned guinea pigs who received high doses of radiation. The study showed that all of the guinea pigs who were exposed to high levels of radiation and did not have cabbage in their diet died; but the group of guinea pigs who ate cabbage had a very high survival rate. This study indicates that cancer patients who are receiving radiation therapy would be wise to include substantial portions of cabbage in their diet.

SHIITAKE MUSHROOM- This brown and beefy-tasting mushroom has been used in Asian gourmet cooking for centuries as a substitute for meat. Its taste and texture are very different from that of regular mushrooms. It has gained fame as an immune system booster, widely recommended to cancer and AIDS patients. The biochemical in the shiitake mushroom that has been proven to augment immune system activity is called lenitan. Today it is possible to find shiitake mushrooms in many supermarkets and Asian groceries in the dried form. Fresh ones are also available in some co-ops. Shiitakes are delicious and can be prepared in a variety of ways: cooked or steamed with rice or noodles; or added to stir-fry and soups.

GARLIC- As a food and a spice, garlic is used widely in both the East and the West. Scientific studies show that garlic can "deactivate" carcinogens, prevent the growth of cancerous tumors, and stimulate the formation of glutathione which detoxifies foreign materials. Garlic contains allicin which has antibiotic and anti-fungal properties. People call it a natural chemotherapy drug because of the way it destroys cancerous cells. It is especially preventive of colon and stomach cancers. One of garlic�s components, ajoene, is very toxic to malignant cells. The maximum benefit is achieved by eating raw garlic.

KELP- is a seaweed which tops the list of therapeutic Chinese foods for its anti-cancer properties. It is rich in many minerals and other special nutrients such as iodine. Traditional Chinese medicine believes that kelp can soften and reduce hard masses. It is also popularly used for weight control in China. It is so popular in Asian cuisine that it is considered a necessity in the Chinese and Japanese diet. Kelp soap, kelp shampoo, and kelp hair conditioners are extensively used in modern China.

CARROTS- Most people already know that carrots contain high levels of beta carotene, and that beta carotene has an anti-cancer effect. Carrots are widely consumed around the world, but in many countries, especially in the West, people eat them raw. Experiments show that eating lightly-cooked carrots is much more beneficial than eating raw carrots, which confirms the ancient wisdom in traditional Chinese medicine. Traditional Chinese medicine practitioners have always recommended that their patients eat lightly-cooked carrots in order to get the best nutritional absorption. Recent research by Dr. Xiangdong Wang at Tufts University shows that beta carotene can change in the human body into a substance called retinoic acid, which is widely used to treat cancers.

CAULIFLOWER- In ancient times, Chinese medicine texts set out the theory that foods which look like tumors have an anti-tumor effect. In the West, the theory that "like treats like" is called the "Doctrine of Signatures." Cauliflower, which looks exactly like a cancer tumor, has long been a folk remedy against cancer. Recently, its effects on cancer have been proven scientifically: it contains many cancer-fighting, hormone-regulating compounds, and is especially good for the prevention of breast and colon cancers.


An Anti-cancer Recipe: Chinese Stir-fry Vegetables
Ingredients
1 teaspoon olive oil
1 tablespoon soy sauce
1 tablespoon of vinegar
1 teaspoon grated fresh ginger root
1 teaspoon sliced garlic
2 cups sliced cabbage
2 cups sliced shiitake mushroom
1 cup sliced carrot
1 cup fresh soy bean sprouts
Preparation
Heat a wok with olive oil. Add ginger root and garlic and stir-fry for one minute. Add cabbage, carrot, shiitake mushroom and soy bean sprouts and stir-fry for 4 minutes. Add vinegar and soy sauce and stir-fry for a few seconds. Serve with rice.



hope this info was useful




Beth
(Login Boobsrock4life)
Re: ANTI BREAST CANCER(looong post)
May 24 2008, 7:49 PM

Wow,thanks it sure was helpful, I don't think I will do the garlic though.

It's always good to have information on phyto-estrogens.