05-03-2013, 03:08 AM
(04-03-2013, 08:53 PM)AbiDrew85 Wrote:(04-03-2013, 08:39 PM)elwirra Wrote: Acctually there is enough fibre in fruits and veggies and it is possible to maintain muscles.. You can also eat some nuts / seeds during this to be sure it's enough fibre in your cleasing. In my opinion the point is to eat only healthy and unprepared food and it will work well for cleaning.. Cleaning will not be as fast as only on grapefruits juice, but it will work also in a little bigger peroid of time.
And I find myself needing to correct both of you. While elwirra is correct that it is possible to maintain and even develop muscle on a vegan or even fruitarian diet... It's that if you select the right nuts, berries, beans, and lentils, and eat ENOUGH of them, you can still get enough PROTEIN. Protein is still the magic nutrient necessary. You just don't necessarily need animal protein and actually there's lots of reasons NOT to eat animal protein if you can afford it.
I can't afford it. Animal protein is much much cheaper as a source of adequate protein.
Oh wow, this thread really blew up while I was at work!! Thank you all for contributing your information!
Granted, I know that there is protein in veggies (hardly anything worth discussing in fruits, so I will leave that out of the discussion), as I daily use beans as a significant protein source for my protein intake. But, the reason why I addressed it as being an insufficient source is because it has such a low count of protein that it would be very difficult (well, difficult for me since I have a small appetite which makes things difficult... it may be easier for a large body building man with a larger appetite like the man you, Elwirra, posted above, who spend the vast majority of their day eating even when they are fast eaters) to get ENOUGH protein. The quantity of food, in other words, would need to increase significantly. I eat other things than veggies because I cannot afford to spend my entire day eating, lol, as most people cannot. I spend enough time eating as it is, and I am eating foods high in protein! I eat at least 6 times a day, which is a lot considering the work I do. Eh. For example, in a single 4oz. boneless skinless chicken breast (which is about the size of the palm of your hand, or a little more if you have petite hands) there is about 33 grams of protein. To get 33 grams of protein from my dark kidney beans (which was the bean with the highest amount of protein that I could find at the store), I would need to eat a little less than 2 cups of it, ... and remember that beans are the vegetable with the highest amount of protein. The KEY here to muscle maintenance and muscle building is to eat ENOUGH protein. So, to make things less complicated than they already are in a high protein diet (as you said so yourself, Elwirra... you shouldn't have to over-complicate things if you don't need to!), it is most recommended to eat multiple forms of protein... for the sake of being more reasonable, at least.
Also, to clarify, I never said that the only way to get protein was from a meat source (as you can now clearly see in my text above). I just said fruits and veggies cannot REASONABLY give you enough protein for a body-builder's diet. Sorry I did not clarify that in my first post, but I thought it was understood, as of course there is protein in vegetables... just a heck of a lot less. Hence, why it is not as reasonable, and I would advise beginning muscle-builders against it unless they were already vegan. And those few who DO successfully use vegetables as their sole source of protein have an even more complicated diet than those who choose from a wider variety of protein sources-- mainly because the foods to which they limit themselves have a significantly less amount of protein, resulting in them needing to consume a heck of a lot more food. Their diet is then less reasonable, more time consuming, and just something I would NEVER recommend for a beginner, like saraa_aaa or anyone else on this forum looking for advise on this topic. Even for someone like me (and I have been at it for a little over a year already), this would be completely unreasonable. I would have to have a large amount of kidney beans all day, and I don't think I have the stomach to fit all of that! Heck, I hardly have the stomach to fit all that I eat now! You would have to reeeeeeeeeally have a passion for going vegan to do this, and you would also have to have a mentality a little different than Elwirra's posted earlier for "doing as you feel," because you most certainly would need to consume more food than the average person in this method, therefore more than likely going against some natural bodily urges as you force your food down. But kudos to those who do, they have mastered the art of a successful diet to meet their needs. As long as they meet their protein needs (which rule of thumb goes to consume a gram of protein for every pound you weigh per day), they are good. I just would never recommend vegan for a diet high in protein.
But, going back to the cleansing/vegan diet topic, you COULD maintain or even build your muscle mass over a week period on a vegan diet but you MUST MUST MUST eat enough of it to get enough protein! So you will be eating more food during that week period than you ever have before, but it is possible... just unreasonable in my experienced high-protein diet opinion.
Ugh. My apologies and sympathy go out to you all, for dealing with my rambling! When what I am saying is not completely understood the first time around, I get overly repetitive the second time around...
Elwirra: thanks so much for the photo of the vegan body builder! It's incredible to know that some people really actually eat that much food every day, on top of their workouts!! Crazy! They must do nothing but eat and workout! haha! And I am glad that you know the difference between protein and fiber now! Fiber is extremely important for the digestive system, especially when you are on a high-protein diet. When I am not eating for my protein, I am eating for my fiber...
Abi: very interesting about the Diatomaceous Earth. Have you tried to contact Earthworks about your question concerning what effect it may possibly have on good microorganisms? It does seem like a pretty effective product... though from what I read it sounds like it must be a pretty nasty-tasting drink with the way he recommends you to drink it fast and chase it with something else haha
But, healthy doesn't always taste good. I kinda want to try it.And CocoChanel, that soup sounds AMAZING. It looks delicious, and I love the ingredients, and how it provides at least 20 grams of protein per serving. But I have to admit that I was hoping it would be something I could just pick up from the store, haha. I can be so lazy with some things
Maybe when I finally find the time and the motivation to actually make myself a meal, this will definitely be top on my list to try! Or maybe I will just get my man to make it for me... 
He likes to cook, but he does not like recipes. Oh well. Thanks a lot, I will certainly try it sometime! Though I am trying to see how it is a "fat flusher"? Is it the cayenne?
It definitely will serve as a great launch pad for me to start some research on this topic now, though! Thanks again for the recipe and the link! For how long and how often have you been eating this soup? If long enough and/often enough, have you found it to work for you (as far as flushing fat without losing muscle mass)? I'm looking forward to trying it 
