18-10-2011, 10:24 AM
Increasing estrogen load without control
November 3 2006 at 9:19 AM Jessica (no login)
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As I understand it the herbs used for natural breast enhancement act to balance hormones, so although you are giving yourself phytoestrogens there is also a natural balancing action to prevent you receiving too much or estrogen becoming too high. With bovine ovary it seems there is no check like this at all, so you are basically increasing your estrogen load without any control. Isn't this way riskier than taking herbs? It just seems to be that with bovine ovary there is no check on what you are introducing into your body?
Author Reply
Marcia
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control November 4 2006, 5:33 PM
I think everyone agrees that bovine ovary is riskier than taking herbs and for several reasons. It's not really up for debate. However, that does not make it particularly hazardous, it's just not as safe as herbs.
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Daisy
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control December 21 2006, 7:25 PM
I've heard this idea a few times, that by unchecked estrogen load you are exposing yourself to a cancer risk. I tried to research it but couldn't find much on it. I did find this from Cathy Wong on about.com:
"Websites selling the product say that bovine ovary extract stimulates the pituitary gland resulting in an increase in prolactin and growth hormone levels. If this is true, there are potential risks. Prolactin is a hormone that rises almost ten-fold during pregnancy to stimulate breast development and milk formation. High levels of prolactin can cause infertility, irregular menstruation, reduced libido, and possibly increase the risk of stroke. Growth hormone is needed to stimulate growth in children. High levels of growth hormone in adults who don't need it can cause the development of diabetes, abnormal growth of bones and internal organs such as the heart, kidneys, and liver, high blood pressure, and atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)".
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Penny
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control February 24 2007, 7:46 AM
Yes I heard this too about increasing estrogen load, that it's dangerous because it's uncontrolled.
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Jennelle
(Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Increasing estrogen load without control March 2 2007, 10:19 AM
Bovine ovary is not as safe as herbs for several reasons, as someone already said. On the other hand, you are probably not going to take bovine ovary for that long, which tends to significantly reduce any dangers.
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sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER Just an idea March 2 2007, 5:31 PM
If we take some herb to balance the estrogen level with BO,it will still work in enlargment and maybe reduce the risks mentioned above.Or not?What herb is it that balances the hormone levels?
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fawn
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control March 11 2007, 1:17 AM
Only the BB brand, which contains pituitary glandular extract, increases pituitary hormone.
Many women that I've talked to decided to add progesterone cream during the second half of their cycle.
The liver filters out excess estrogens, which is one of the reasons I usually recommend a quarterly liver cleanse.
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Sissy
(Login sissy2345)
SENIOR MEMBER To Fawn March 11 2007, 1:59 AM
Hi Fawn! I'm so glad you popped in on this subject, I have been wondering if it was ok to add progesterone cream with BO, I am taking BB right now.
I have been interested in it since reading this article that was posted here some time ago. I know that you are very knowledgeable in this area, do you have any advise? The hormone thing really confuses me, I suspected a thyroid problem 8 years ago when stress pretty much shut down my metablolism, other than that, have had no problems, so never really looked at hormones much until now. Thanks for your help! -- Sissy
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/she...ellman.htm
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER To Fawn March 11 2007, 7:54 AM
Hi Fawn.Do u mean that it is un useful to take the genetic BO?even if I added pituitary glandular?Or should I purchase BB?Thanks for the help
Trudy
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control March 31 2007, 7:48 AM
I gather from this that bovine ovary itself is likely to unbalance your hormones. Hmmm....
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER BO March 31 2007, 8:34 AM
U can always take DIM plus which balances hormones and estrogen levels.
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Anonymous
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 1 2007, 6:34 PM
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I set an email alert, but it didn't seem to work.
First of all, I'm not really convinced of the "danger" of BO, and not really sure where this scare comes from. Bovine ovary is a meat product, and not really much different than eating liver, kidneys or other meat organs, except that it contains hormonal substance that will be used by the body. The same result has been seen when consuming cow thyroid glands - which is actually where the medication Armour (the first thyroid medication) comes from and is still used.
The difference is in the dosages. The use of BO for breast development is pretty much along the same order as Armour for thyroid difficulties.
Generic BO is pretty much the same thing as Bountiful Breast, except that it isn't packaged pretty with pictures of big-busted women on it, and isn't marketed for breast development.
Bountiful Breast has now added pituitary glandular and kelp to maintain thyroid health. (Both of which are available as separate products.)
ANY excess of estrogen can affect thyroid health, so it's a good idea to watch your temperature whether your are on BO or herbs. Many women find when they enter perimenopause that their thyroid is suppressed (fatigue, weight gain) because they aren't ovulating and producing progesterone to balance estrogen. This excess estrogen suppresses the thyroid and can result in fatigue, weight gain and brain fog.
It's important to keep your temperatures checked to make sure that the thyroid is functioning properly. You need an active healthy thyroid for two reasons. Healthy thyroid means you're producing enough T3 - which is the hormone your body needs to take serum cholesterol and turn it into cell walls. When on a BE program, the focus is to build new FAT cells around the mammary glands - you need cholesterol and T3 to build new cells of any kind.
Secondly, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen is aromatase and it works best in a higher temperature environment. Poor thyroid function can result in a lower body temperature which will inhibit the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
If you have any more questions, please just ask. I will try to check in more often and will try to set the email alert again.
Fawn
Botanical Beauty Lab
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Anonymous
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 1 2007, 6:38 PM
Again, I wanted to reiterate - the liver removes excess estrogen from the blood stream. Estrogen receptors themselves will turn on and off (loosely speaking) in response to an excess or deficiency of estrogen. The clearance of bovine ovary substance from the body is pretty much at the same speed as that for herb phytoestrogens. The main difference is that bovine ovary hormones and those of the herb pueraria mirifica are more closely shaped to fit human estrogen receptors so it's possible that more will be absorbed into the cells of organs than that of herbal phytoestrogens before it's cleared through the liver and from the body.
Fawn
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Danielle
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 7:53 AM
I think it is obvious that BO is a riskier route than taking herbs, but what people should remember is that you are not aiming to take BO long term, which means that in reality it is not unduly risky.
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Ccupwannabe
(Login ccuplady) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 7:16 PM
I was just about to start a BO program, but the temperature thing is getting me. Fawn's note has really made me curious about safety and what my body is telling me. I bought a thermometer and checked mine. It has ranged from 95.5 (after I was just outside) to 97.4 so far today. I remember my temp running low in the follicular phase of my cycle from my fertility days. What I'm confused about is what this means. Does this mean low metabolism (I'm a pretty thin woman)? Does it mean thyroid function is off? Is this a big problem that warrants attention on its own or only in the context of BE? I have read to take L'Tyrosine to help get temp up, but with this talk of hormones running rampant, I'm a little concerned. I took some Kelp today, didn't seem to do much....
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lindyrose
(Login lindyrose) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 7:24 PM
To Ccupwannabe
That's a pretty low temp. You might need to check with your doctor to be put on a thyroid product, if that's your problem. The L-T and kelp never did much for me until I started taking a liquid iodine with it. There is the liquid iodine you get at the drugstore for EXTERNAL use only and then there is one you can get for INTERNAL use. Just make sure your ingesting the right one. Best of luck to you!!!!
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Sissy
(Login sissy2345)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 10:55 PM
My temp was low when I started BB, it was like 96.something to 97.6. I did get pains and fullness while my temp was low for those first two months, so it might not hurt to start anyway, but work to get your temp up in the meantime. My opinion.
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Ccupwannabe
(Login ccuplady) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 30 2007, 6:49 PM
Thanks for your input, ladies! I am going to start the BO and keep an eye on my temp with the L'Tyrosine and kelp. If it doesn't go up, I'll add the liquid iodine (internal). Thanks bunches!!!
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Paula Longstreet
(Login butterfly40) liver cleanse May 6 2007, 12:59 AM
So, in essense, we should do a liver cleanse every quarter?
Like every 4 months?
Take a break from BB or whatever form of BO we are doing and cleanse our liver?
I wish BB would mention this or more info on website about mg of bovine ovary in there pills.
Just curious.
Fawn
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control May 9 2007, 1:13 AM
This is something that I've found from my own research, BB may not know about it or may not recognize the importance of it.
I would definitely recommend taking a one week break every three or four months while on your period and doing a liver cleanse.
Fawn
November 3 2006 at 9:19 AM Jessica (no login)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As I understand it the herbs used for natural breast enhancement act to balance hormones, so although you are giving yourself phytoestrogens there is also a natural balancing action to prevent you receiving too much or estrogen becoming too high. With bovine ovary it seems there is no check like this at all, so you are basically increasing your estrogen load without any control. Isn't this way riskier than taking herbs? It just seems to be that with bovine ovary there is no check on what you are introducing into your body?
Author Reply
Marcia
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control November 4 2006, 5:33 PM
I think everyone agrees that bovine ovary is riskier than taking herbs and for several reasons. It's not really up for debate. However, that does not make it particularly hazardous, it's just not as safe as herbs.
Edit Message Delete Message
Daisy
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control December 21 2006, 7:25 PM
I've heard this idea a few times, that by unchecked estrogen load you are exposing yourself to a cancer risk. I tried to research it but couldn't find much on it. I did find this from Cathy Wong on about.com:
"Websites selling the product say that bovine ovary extract stimulates the pituitary gland resulting in an increase in prolactin and growth hormone levels. If this is true, there are potential risks. Prolactin is a hormone that rises almost ten-fold during pregnancy to stimulate breast development and milk formation. High levels of prolactin can cause infertility, irregular menstruation, reduced libido, and possibly increase the risk of stroke. Growth hormone is needed to stimulate growth in children. High levels of growth hormone in adults who don't need it can cause the development of diabetes, abnormal growth of bones and internal organs such as the heart, kidneys, and liver, high blood pressure, and atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries)".
Edit Message Delete Message
Penny
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control February 24 2007, 7:46 AM
Yes I heard this too about increasing estrogen load, that it's dangerous because it's uncontrolled.
Edit Message Delete Message
Jennelle
(Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS Re: Increasing estrogen load without control March 2 2007, 10:19 AM
Bovine ovary is not as safe as herbs for several reasons, as someone already said. On the other hand, you are probably not going to take bovine ovary for that long, which tends to significantly reduce any dangers.
Edit Message Delete Message
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER Just an idea March 2 2007, 5:31 PM
If we take some herb to balance the estrogen level with BO,it will still work in enlargment and maybe reduce the risks mentioned above.Or not?What herb is it that balances the hormone levels?
Edit Message Delete Message
fawn
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control March 11 2007, 1:17 AM
Only the BB brand, which contains pituitary glandular extract, increases pituitary hormone.
Many women that I've talked to decided to add progesterone cream during the second half of their cycle.
The liver filters out excess estrogens, which is one of the reasons I usually recommend a quarterly liver cleanse.
Edit Message Delete Message
Sissy
(Login sissy2345)
SENIOR MEMBER To Fawn March 11 2007, 1:59 AM
Hi Fawn! I'm so glad you popped in on this subject, I have been wondering if it was ok to add progesterone cream with BO, I am taking BB right now.
I have been interested in it since reading this article that was posted here some time ago. I know that you are very knowledgeable in this area, do you have any advise? The hormone thing really confuses me, I suspected a thyroid problem 8 years ago when stress pretty much shut down my metablolism, other than that, have had no problems, so never really looked at hormones much until now. Thanks for your help! -- Sissy
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/she...ellman.htm
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER To Fawn March 11 2007, 7:54 AM
Hi Fawn.Do u mean that it is un useful to take the genetic BO?even if I added pituitary glandular?Or should I purchase BB?Thanks for the help
Trudy
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control March 31 2007, 7:48 AM
I gather from this that bovine ovary itself is likely to unbalance your hormones. Hmmm....
sandy
(Login sandy111)
SENIOR MEMBER BO March 31 2007, 8:34 AM
U can always take DIM plus which balances hormones and estrogen levels.
Edit Message Delete Message
Anonymous
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 1 2007, 6:34 PM
I'm sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I set an email alert, but it didn't seem to work.
First of all, I'm not really convinced of the "danger" of BO, and not really sure where this scare comes from. Bovine ovary is a meat product, and not really much different than eating liver, kidneys or other meat organs, except that it contains hormonal substance that will be used by the body. The same result has been seen when consuming cow thyroid glands - which is actually where the medication Armour (the first thyroid medication) comes from and is still used.
The difference is in the dosages. The use of BO for breast development is pretty much along the same order as Armour for thyroid difficulties.
Generic BO is pretty much the same thing as Bountiful Breast, except that it isn't packaged pretty with pictures of big-busted women on it, and isn't marketed for breast development.
Bountiful Breast has now added pituitary glandular and kelp to maintain thyroid health. (Both of which are available as separate products.)
ANY excess of estrogen can affect thyroid health, so it's a good idea to watch your temperature whether your are on BO or herbs. Many women find when they enter perimenopause that their thyroid is suppressed (fatigue, weight gain) because they aren't ovulating and producing progesterone to balance estrogen. This excess estrogen suppresses the thyroid and can result in fatigue, weight gain and brain fog.
It's important to keep your temperatures checked to make sure that the thyroid is functioning properly. You need an active healthy thyroid for two reasons. Healthy thyroid means you're producing enough T3 - which is the hormone your body needs to take serum cholesterol and turn it into cell walls. When on a BE program, the focus is to build new FAT cells around the mammary glands - you need cholesterol and T3 to build new cells of any kind.
Secondly, the enzyme that converts testosterone to estrogen is aromatase and it works best in a higher temperature environment. Poor thyroid function can result in a lower body temperature which will inhibit the conversion of testosterone to estrogen.
If you have any more questions, please just ask. I will try to check in more often and will try to set the email alert again.
Fawn
Botanical Beauty Lab
Edit Message Delete Message
Anonymous
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 1 2007, 6:38 PM
Again, I wanted to reiterate - the liver removes excess estrogen from the blood stream. Estrogen receptors themselves will turn on and off (loosely speaking) in response to an excess or deficiency of estrogen. The clearance of bovine ovary substance from the body is pretty much at the same speed as that for herb phytoestrogens. The main difference is that bovine ovary hormones and those of the herb pueraria mirifica are more closely shaped to fit human estrogen receptors so it's possible that more will be absorbed into the cells of organs than that of herbal phytoestrogens before it's cleared through the liver and from the body.
Fawn
Edit Message Delete Message
Danielle
(no login) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 7:53 AM
I think it is obvious that BO is a riskier route than taking herbs, but what people should remember is that you are not aiming to take BO long term, which means that in reality it is not unduly risky.
Edit Message Delete Message
Ccupwannabe
(Login ccuplady) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 7:16 PM
I was just about to start a BO program, but the temperature thing is getting me. Fawn's note has really made me curious about safety and what my body is telling me. I bought a thermometer and checked mine. It has ranged from 95.5 (after I was just outside) to 97.4 so far today. I remember my temp running low in the follicular phase of my cycle from my fertility days. What I'm confused about is what this means. Does this mean low metabolism (I'm a pretty thin woman)? Does it mean thyroid function is off? Is this a big problem that warrants attention on its own or only in the context of BE? I have read to take L'Tyrosine to help get temp up, but with this talk of hormones running rampant, I'm a little concerned. I took some Kelp today, didn't seem to do much....
Edit Message Delete Message
lindyrose
(Login lindyrose) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 7:24 PM
To Ccupwannabe
That's a pretty low temp. You might need to check with your doctor to be put on a thyroid product, if that's your problem. The L-T and kelp never did much for me until I started taking a liquid iodine with it. There is the liquid iodine you get at the drugstore for EXTERNAL use only and then there is one you can get for INTERNAL use. Just make sure your ingesting the right one. Best of luck to you!!!!
Edit Message Delete Message
Sissy
(Login sissy2345)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 26 2007, 10:55 PM
My temp was low when I started BB, it was like 96.something to 97.6. I did get pains and fullness while my temp was low for those first two months, so it might not hurt to start anyway, but work to get your temp up in the meantime. My opinion.
Edit Message Delete Message
Ccupwannabe
(Login ccuplady) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control April 30 2007, 6:49 PM
Thanks for your input, ladies! I am going to start the BO and keep an eye on my temp with the L'Tyrosine and kelp. If it doesn't go up, I'll add the liquid iodine (internal). Thanks bunches!!!
Edit Message Delete Message
Paula Longstreet
(Login butterfly40) liver cleanse May 6 2007, 12:59 AM
So, in essense, we should do a liver cleanse every quarter?
Like every 4 months?
Take a break from BB or whatever form of BO we are doing and cleanse our liver?
I wish BB would mention this or more info on website about mg of bovine ovary in there pills.
Just curious.
Fawn
(Login fawnmarie) Re: Increasing estrogen load without control May 9 2007, 1:13 AM
This is something that I've found from my own research, BB may not know about it or may not recognize the importance of it.
I would definitely recommend taking a one week break every three or four months while on your period and doing a liver cleanse.
Fawn