[Alicia]

Hey Gilly!

Glad you're not spotting anymore!!

I'm also thinking of adding Goat's rue, I'm looking into it. I'd like to take it in tea form but I've only found it in capsules, and I don't want to add more pills to my program ...for the moment

I didn't know spearmint had that effect... I've had troubles to swallow my pills lately, they get stuck all the time... perhaps it has something to do with the spearmint??

So cool you're taking SP I think the effect on your thighs depends on how much you take (no big news, I know, lol). I was taking 320mg of the extract (which I think is equivalent to 1500mg of the whole herb) and even though I took it for 3 months I never saw any major change in my lower body at least anything to get crazy about, but since I doubled it, less than a month ago, I can feel the difference! My hips measure the same but my trousers and my loosest skirts fit definitely tighter so it must be my thighs expanding, and I'd say my face is fuller. I feel prettier, I don't care if I look like a fat cow to the rest of the world LOL.

Good luck to you and your boobies

[gilly]

Hey Alicia!

I hear you about the amount of pills I'm starting to get into this routine of drinking teas, and I like how it lessens the amount I have to swallow in pill form

When I started to notice the thing with my esophagus, it started out feeling as if my pills got stuck in my throat. So I thought first that the emerging pain there was from the pills disintegrating in my throat rather than my stomach, but now that I stopped the spearmint tea I don't feel pain or pills in my throat...
Oh and that reminds me that I did read that mint can relax the muscles in the lower esophagus, so it could be that those muscles aren't pushing the pills all the way down and they get stuck...
I would think that you would be fine though, since you cycle the spearmint? I don't know..

I feel prettier, I don't care if I look like a fat cow to the rest of the world LOL.

Haha! I love that! Yes I can't wait to see what effect saw palmetto will have on my body. Have you noticed any changes in androgen levels from using it?

Thank you sweetheart, good luck to you and yours too!

[Alicia]

Yeah Gilly I cycle the spearmint... I was just thinking about that: for the last week or so I've been swallowing much better, perhaps because I'm not taking any spearmint now (luteal phase). I'll pay attention the next cycle when I take my spearmint again... I may drink another brand Yogi tea (peppermint mixed with some other herb) instead. One night I had a pill stuck for 6 hours and it hurt like hell!! I had to swallow -without chewing- pieces of bread to move it down, and that was painful too

I felt the effect of the SP very quickly: during the first weeks I noticed my body hair was getting thinner, not much improvement on my acne though. But it stopped a month later. As I'm taking the extract I think the dose was too high and stalled... I should have tried the whole herb first and then shift to the extract...
But now that I'm taking 2 SP pills I'm starting to see a difference again! Body hair is thinning a bit and my skin looks fine, fine, fine! No breakouts since I doubled the dose, and my skin doesn't look greasy anymore, even after applying my moisturizing cream.
I haven't had any mid-cycle pain either: according to dr lee's hormone test that's a sign of adrogen excess. Not sure what herb has done that, or perhaps I've just been lucky.
But well, my androgen levels must be very, very high, I'm sure you'll have a great effect even with a lower dose of SP because you seem to respond well to antiandrogens, like the spearmint and the PM, you lucky girl

[gilly]

A quick update to note a few things

The Saw Palmetto definitely has given me bigger thighs, and I think I've gained weight elsewhere too (not so much my chest though ). I was hoping it would stay off my stomach, but it seems to be laying on fat there too, so I've had to change my eating habits a bit (I can't just binge on everything I see anymore ). I know I'm taking a somewhat big dose now but I think that's necessary to get the anti-androgen effect that I need (though it feels like Saw Palmetto is somewhat less effective for me, or maybe it just works slower than what I experienced with Spearmint tea?)

I measured today and it seems that I've gained an inch on my butt since starting this whole NBE thing (half an inch since starting pm) (Yay!) Not much change on my chest though.

Measurements today
Over bust: 31,25" (-0,25" since starting pm in february)
Across bust: 32,5" (+0,5" since starting pm in february)
Under bust: 29"

Waist: 26,5 " (-0,25" since feb)
Hips: 33,75" (+0,5" since feb)
Butt: 37 " (+0,5" since feb)

I'm not paying too much attention to the plus/minus quarter inches, because I'm sure I measure differently every time. But it's nice to see the increase across the bust since feb, because even though they feel bigger in my hand, I don't see much difference in the mirror

I've decided to stop stinging nettle, because I found this link on Isabelle's program http://slawomirambroziak.pl/english/secrects_of_dht/ which at the bottom mentions that nettle root extract blocks aromatase (the conversion of testosterone into estrogen) and I figured that can't be very good for NBE, and I'm not risking it. I've been at a stand still it feels like for a little while, though I have had some good pain sensations, not much growth.

my current program

- 1000 mg Ainterol PM daily no cycling. (Phyto-estrogen)
- Fennel seed about 400 mg (phyto-progestin and increases prolactin)
- Saw Palmetto roughly 3000 mg spread out through the day (anti-androgen)
- Goat's rue about 2 heaping teaspoons in tea (mainly for increasing insulin sensitivity, but also for swelling)
- Ginkgo Biloba roughly 1000 mg (circulation and general mental health)
- MSM up to 3000 mg a day (skin etc)
- 500 mg vitamin c (for MSM)
- Also some probiotics here and there because of a recent yeast infection.

I had my withdrawal bleed last week and my boobs deflated during that time (which they plan on doing every time it seems). However, each time I put in a new nuvaring I feel growing pains again, which is good.
I am still thinking about switching to Yasmin or something else though, which is good for an anti-androgen effect as well... Still some thinking to do.

Happy growing everyone!

[gilly]

I changed birth control!! I started with Lutera yesterday. I had originally asked for yasmin, but the planned parenthood here doesn't carry it, so I would have pay a lot for it, and the nurse just recommended the generic Lutera that I can get covered by them, so I went with that.

I was reading about possible side effects of lutera, and I saw several people have had huge increase in breast size, so I am secretly hoping that will happen to me too But I'm not sure why it would, since it's pretty much the same dosage etc as the two I've tried before, nuvaring and loette. Unless nuvaring is what caused me to lose a lot of weight a couple years ago, and it's just been keeping me from growing proper boobs.

I decided to switch from nuvaring because I was looking up side effects of nuvaring, and one of the major ones is rash particularly in the face, and I can't belieeeeeve I haven't linked my skin problems and the nuvaring earlier. ARGH. So hopefully this will fix everything, boobs, skin rash and androgens. If not, I switch to yasmin.

So far it's promising as my left boob is crazy itchy today. I keep checking if I dropped some bread crumbs in my bra or something

I've also been trying to noogle more, at least once a day, so we shall see. I'll do my measurements in a couple days.

Also seems like I'm not putting on any more weight due to SP. My thighs look fine!

[Isabelle]

Hi Gilly,

It may very well work. My elder daughter is 19 and 32DD, and it started with a generic ethinyl estradiol and levonorgestrel bcp too. Ethinyl estradiol was the estrogen used in transition of transsexuals until 10 years ago, when it was abandoned because it was too strong. The dose was typically 50 times higher than what you will take. I wonder why they never figured that one out

[gilly]

And I'm back! You would think that since I had off all summer I would have really stepped it up with NBE and noogling etc, I actually had the complete opposite effect. I lost all oomph to do anything NBE related, except continue taking my PM etc, and I didn't visit this site for many many weeks. I didn't do any massaging nor noogling. I DID however do some serious work on my self-esteem (as can be summed up in my post in Notsobusty's program here and now that college has started back up I am going to continue updating my program page again (I need some sort of distraction from my studies! Nothing more productive than growing my boobs )

I have not grown over the summer, so my new BC Lutera didn't help much in the boob department. It didn't help with my rash either, but I may have found another solution for my skin (coconut oil is genius).
I did try deervelvet extract and gaba for a couple months (I can just see jiberish rolling his eyes ), with no noticeable difference (except sleeping better perhaps). Maybe I wasn't taking enough, as I kept the doses intentionally low, because when I started to increase it I had heart palpitations which was not cool. I think that was the gaba that caused it. Oh well. So I've stopped taking these.

For the past couple weeks I have been doing this:

- 1000 mg Ainterol PM daily no cycling. (Phyto-estrogen)
- Fennel seed about 400 mg (phyto-progestin and increases prolactin)
- Saw Palmetto roughly 3000 mg spread out through the day (anti-androgen)
- Lutera birth control taken as recommended in package.

I have recently added:
- Some flaxseed oil taken internally and sporadically when I can remember
- Some flaxseed oil topically on the boobs a couple times a week.
- Hypnosis!

The reason I've added hypnosis is because I have over the summer read a lot about neuroplasticity of the brain in relation to meditation etc, and if you want to see some really interesting talks about this you can watch these TEDtalks here and here.
I've also read about the neuroplasticity of the brain in relation to bodily function.
So the basic idea is that you can "convince your brain" to do different things, like grow your boobs. So now hypnosis makes much more sense to me, where before I thought it was maybe not worth the effort.
And I came back to the forum to find several recently having had lots of success with it. So I have listened to one of these audios (switching it up every now and then) every day:
- Rockmelon ringtone
- Boobster extreme
- Steve Jones' breast enhancement hypnosis. See this thread (only listened to a couple times, since it's soooo long)

I've recently downloaded this one from overflowing bra which seems like it might be good, and probably better than Steve Jones', but I haven't tried it out properly yet.

I can happily say that I've felt lots of tingles and growth pain the past week or so, which I haven't felt for months and months, so yay!! I'm pretty sure it's the hypnosis doing it, since I've been taking flaxseed only sporadically.

My measurements today are:
Over bust: 32" (+ 0.5 " since starting pm in feb)
Across bust: 32.75 " (+ 0.75)
Under bust: 29 "

Waist: 27 " ( + 0.5)
Hips: 34 ( + 1)
Butt: 37 ( + 0.5)

My breasts have felt fuller now the past week.

I took new pics today too.
My old photos first, and then the new ones

Happy and successful growing everyone!!

[Helena St]

I love what you wrote on Notsobusty's page. I definately feel like being obsessed with growing boobs has lead me away from working on some of the more important inner things and it's hard sometimes to find a balance! I was at the waterpark yesterday and was just looking at all the different bodies out there and in hundreds of people I didnt see one single perfect body.... well with the exception of maybe a teenager or 2 but I wouldnt go back to being a teen for anything lol! that kind of brought me back to reality lol.

Good luck with the lutera and PM, Hopefully we will grow!!!

[gilly]

Hi Angel!

I'm SO happy you found it helpful. I don't think that the outer and the inner have to be in conflict with each other when thinking about breast growth. It doesn't have to be about a bad body image. It can actually move beyond that, but normally many people come here because they have low self-confidence which they think bigger boobs will solve (which it might, but it's sad and very self-limiting when self-confidence is based only on looks, because there is so much more to a person and life). I came here because of a bad body image.

LoL, I wouldn't for anything want to go back to being a teen either! Hah!

I'm also trying to expand my idea of beautiful, because I think I maybe obsess about one image of beauty when in fact there are so many other facets of beauty out there. I easily overlook these because I think others all agree on the same idea of beautiful I obsess about, when in fact different people appreciate different things and different body types etc, not just the one that magazines tell us are the "perfect" bodies, like you say. Some men find small breasts the most attractive. Small breasts are beautiful too. And there are many gorgeous people out there with small breasts, and thank god for that! So all hope is not lost if I don't grow!

Thanks Angel, I'm wishing you the best!!

[Leanime]

Your boobs are gorgeous! Very perky and round I think your very wise to be working on what's on the inside (definately need to do that myself!) because what's the point if everyone else believes your beautiful and you don't?
And if all fails and we dont grow at least we won't have to worry about sagging!