[aplrt]

Hi!

I was wondering if you could give me some tips on how to use Pueraria Mirifica. I'm 25 years old, cup A looking for a cup size increase. After reading into it, PM seems to be my best option and many people here have suggested Ainterol pills + cream so I guess that's what I'll be going for.

My questions are, should I take 1 tablet a day and use the cream twice or vice versa (2 tablets and cream once), during which 15 days should I use the pills (from ovulation till my period starts or from when the period stops till ovulation) and should I use progesterone powder the remaining 15 days that I'm not on PM? Also, should I stop using both the pill and (!) cream during the 15 days or just the pill? Is the idea to keep the ES and PR levels high throughout the menstrual cycle or to elevate the levels when the levels are naturally higher in the body? If it's to elevate the levels then I guess I should start taking PM about a week after my period starts and until a week before it's supposed to start again, and use progesterone from day 15 until some days before the period, or?

I understand that it's personal and really depends on your own body, but since most of you here have already gone through the trial-and-error I was hoping you could help me out with a program to start with at least

Thank you!

[highhopes]

Hi aplrt,

That is a hard one to answer on my part since Im new but although I spent a few months looking at page after page on this forum the conclusion is everyone is different and what might work for some wont work for all. Ive been trying lots of things and ditching what doesnt work for what does so its a case of trial and error. I messed around so much with herbs that I started lactacting LOL!!!!!! so yes trial and error!

as far as the pills go you will know if you need more or less but take it from me and behalf of others on here if your a biological female try not to exceed 1000mgs of PM or you might skip periods and show signs of estrogen dominance. I hope you find what works for you.

Happy and patient growing wishing you the best!

[jiberish]

Getting your dosage is whatever works. Try a month of each. 1 month do 2 pill 1 cream and then the opposite the next month. Some people only use creams some only use pills. Experiment and record your results.

You can take the pill/cream anywhere from 15-20 days depending your body. But I would stop them all after this and switch to progesterone.

Taking some progesterone during the first part of (days 1-15/20) may help to keep receptors sensitive.

More than 1000mg isn't effective anyway. It doesn't have any effect.

It really all depends on your hormone levels. If you have the money, get the checked. Then you can see what you will need to do.

[aplrt]

Thanks for your replies! Guess I'll have to experiment and hope to find something that works. Thinking about taking progesterone during the second part though because I'm pretty sure I suffer from PMS. Only problem is, Ainterol apparently only ships progesterone to US?! Would be great if anyone knows of a good source of progesterone Another thing which has me a bit worried is the brand Ainterol itself. They has some misspellings on their homepage which is one thing (as long as their products work, who cares), but why are their products so much cheaper than e.g. Stherb? Someone on another thread was saying something about it being 'wild PM' and not as efficient. I sent them a mail and got the reply below. People on this forum say they're getting results from Ainterol so maybe I shouldn't be complaining that it's cheaper?!

"Wild grown is a rumor started by competitors as it is actually illegal to
harvest wild grown pueraira in Thailand and the Ministry of Agriculture
would immediately shut down any company that does that. This product is 100% 10 year or more cultivated and carefully selected strains of Pueraria Mirifica with known high miroestrol levels. There is too much controversy right now on how to most accurately measure deoxymirioestrol and miroestrol levels so technically no seller should be listing them on the bottle until an established method to measure is accepted worldwide. The values of those 2 when measured by what we feel is the most accurate method are:

Deoxymirioestrol - no accurate way at present to test so we don't
Miroestrol 40.53-42.10mg/100gm which equates to .21mg per capsule - using special HPLC method of testing (New version we now sell is about 20% stronger approximately .25mg)
Daidzin .48mg
Daidzein 79mcg
Genistin 94mcg
Genistein 19mcg
Puerarin .69mg
Protein 66mcg
Calories - 3

Capsules are vegetable based to conform to anyones religion.

The older the pueraria mirifica is when harvested the stronger it usually is
and we only use 10+ year old plants now when we harvest! You can see the feedback on eBay as well with customer after customer after customer saying how well it works - those are REAL testimonials and there are thousands of them! eBay testimonials cannot be faked like privately owned websites so no question of legitimacy. http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=mas2wxf&ftab=AllFeedback
our eBay stores feedback page of 2507 feedbacks and we are 100% positive there! That cannot be faked."

[mochaccino]

Hi Aplrt I agree with Jiberish that some premenopausal women can grow while taking PM for 3 weeks or more per cycle without BC, but I'm personally only aware of one. There may be others, but they must be very much in the minority if I haven't come across them. Usually premenopausal women mess up their cycles, get estrogen dominance symptoms, and don't grow at all when they attempt to take PM for 3 weeks or more per cycle.

Of course, you could just forget about the PC and take PM continuously, all month long, with a BC that's high in estrogen and progestin. It's cheap, it's easy, and it worked extremely well for Jiberish's partner, as well as MydreamisGcup and IdreamofD. They were also some of this boards fastest growers. It's not yet clear if this method works for all healthy young women, but what on earth does? If you decide to try their method, than you can ignore everything else that I'm about to say, since it'll be completely irrelevant.

Typically, premenopausal women who are not on BC will cycle PM by taking it internally only until ovulation. It might be even better to stop taking it internally one or two days prior to ovulation. The cream is usually used twice per day throughout the entire cycle, but you should probably start with the minimum dose. There are also a lot of women who take PM pills even less then 13 days per month. In that case, they normally don't take it during their period, or at least not during the first half of their period, usually because of increased cramping or bleeding, but not everyone gets these side effects.

If you decide to use progesterone, you should use it in the form of a bio-identical progesterone cream, aka PC. Avoid all the creams that don't say "bio-identical" or that don't list the number of milligrams of actual progesterone on their packaging or site. Emerita Pro-gest is a popular brand of PC, but I don't know if you can get it in your country. Keep in mind that it's MUCH worse to use too much PC than it is to use too little, and it's very easy to accidentally take too much. If you overdose on it severely (which is apparently not difficult to do), it can stop your growth for anywhere from a few months to a year, mainly because large amounts of excess PC can get stored in fat tissue and continue releasing into your blood stream like a time release capsule for a very long time.

You have 2 options when it comes to PC dosing, but neither has been tried by enough women to be considered a "sure thing". Option one was tried by a member named Ginie who grew very well by taking PC during her entire luteal phase, but only when her BBT charts and cycle length indicated that it was needed. It's worth pointing out that Ginie had a real, diagnosed progesterone deficiency, which means that it would have been difficult for her to take too much progesterone. That puts her in a very different position than most healthy young women. Option 2 was tried by an apparently healthy young woman who did not have any hormonal issues that she was aware of. She did not keep track of her hormones at all, and she used PC for only 2 or 3 days per month. I don't remember her username, and her program ended a very, very long time ago. The fact that I had to dig so deep into the past should tell you how rare it is for a completely healthy women to succeed while using PC. On the other hand it's also extremely rare for a premenopausal women who is not on BC to successfully grow and keep her growth while taking PM alone, without having to continue taking a "maintenance" dose of PM. Most don't even get to the stage where they would need to take a maintenance dose of PM, because their swelling disappears after every single period, without increasing from month to month.

To sum it up, you can either take a tiny amount of PC every month or you can use BBT (basal body temperature charting), possibly along with blood tests, to figure out when to use PC cream. The second option is probably trickier and more likely to fail, mainly because even if you know EXACTLY what your hormone balance is like, unless you have a progresterone deficiency, it won't be at all clear how much PC you should take to balance out the PM. I myself am taking a huge risk by trying to use BBT to figure out when and how to take PC.

People often point out that there are some women who grew while using large amounts of PC for long periods of time, either with or without PM. However, as far as I know, every last one of these women had a diagnosed hormonal disorder known to cause progesterone deficiency. Even some women with a diagnosed progesterone deficiency did not grow at all on PC, or stalled out after an extremely small amount of growth.

You could also avoid PC entirely, and instead just cycle PM with herbs during the second half of your cycle. Chiyomilk is the poster girl for this method. She may be the most successful biologically female grower this board has ever scene, although she was not actually a member of this board. She used a low dose herbal pill called B-up during luteal phase. It probably worked mainly by raising progesterone and/or prolactin, and it contained only a small amount of phytoestrogens. Rather than using B-up, which is extremely expensive and not available to all countries, some people are now experimenting with using the Greenbush combo during their luteal phase. If you want to play it safe you can take only a low dose of herbs, but it's not clear how much of the Greenbush combo you can take while cycling it with PM. It's possible that a larger dose would work even better, but it might also cause stalling, and B-up contains only a very small amount of similar herbs.

I never meant for this post to be so long On the other hand, putting it all in writing really cleared up a lot of lingering confusion in my own mind, so thanks!

[jiberish]

My wife has never taken PM all month long.

My dreamisgcup was able too because she was on the depo(progesterone shot) as her form of BC.

The justification for up to 3 weeks is when you look at the menstrual cycle figures. The estrogen levels are still somewhat elevated until the 3rd week.

However I don't believe you can do a program without progesterone of some sort. As time goes on the abundance of phytoestrogens overwork the receptors in the body and build up a resistance. But unlike other chemicals like caffeine. You can't just take more to get the same effect. Progesterone helps to re-sensitize the receptors to keep your PM effective.

PC cream just happens to be the most effective source. It may be a case of in Japan PC cream is not legal like Australia. Which may be why she uses b-up. Or it may not, who knows. But PC cream is the best available source to get guaranteed progesterone.

[mochaccino]

She takes it for 3 weeks while on BC? That's an unusual schedule, but it's even cheaper than what I thought you were doing an apparently still works.

I know you haven't been able to try PC yet, but I hope it turns out not to be necessary. It would be great if such a simple program were extremely successful for a lot of people.

As far as estrogen levels are concerned, even though it doesn't drop to zero after ovulation, the dip seems to be what's most important. For some reason most people have to stop PM at the point that estrogen normally dips, or even earlier.

[aplrt]

Thanks so very much for your replies, this is great information!

I've decided to start with 1 PM tablet during the first 2 weeks of my cycle (eventually switch it up to 2 tablets depending on how it goes) and take bio-identical progesterone cream 1-2 days, around 7-9 days before my period is due. I'll use the PM cream twice per day throughout the entire cycle. In addition, I'll be taking calcium supplements, multivitamins, L-arginine, and avoid soy! Will also look into finding some fennel tea or fenugreek for the second half of my cycle.

Just two more questions. Because of the delivery time I'd have to wait 2 weeks before starting with the tablets (i.e. before my cycle starts again). Would it be ok to start using small amounts of the cream immediately when the products arrive or should I wait with both (cream + tablet) for the next cycle? If you can take the cream nonstop, it shouldn't really matter when you start the cream, or? Also, someone had mentioned on another thread that you should avoid getting the cream on your nipples?! Is this true?

[mochaccino]

It should be fine to start the cream immediately. I don't see why not. About the nipple issue, some people massage very vigorously for long periods of time several times per day. A very small number of dedicated massagers end up raising their prolactin so much that they actually lactate. One way to avoid lactation is to avoid touching your nipples when you massage. The lactation has nothing to do with PM cream. It can happen even with dry massage. As long as you are just rubbing the cream in, rather than following some kind of intense massage regimen, I don't think you have to worry about where you rub the PM. There are also some people who believe PM will lighten your nipples, but I dont think that anyone on this board has actually seen their nipples lighten from PM. In some parts of Asia their seems to be a bit of a cultural obsession with light nipples. I dont entirely understand why it would matter, but they seem to associate it with youth. Even Chiyomilk, who is Japanese, used a nipple lightening cream, but it was not PM. I personally think that some asian PM companies must be claiming that their creams will lighten nipples because they know that their asian customers would be interested, but I personally think that its a marketing gimmick. I could be wrong of course.

[prettypetunia]

My wife has never taken PM all month long.

My dreamisgcup was able too because she was on the depo(progesterone shot) as her form of BC.

The justification for up to 3 weeks is when you look at the menstrual cycle figures. The estrogen levels are still somewhat elevated until the 3rd week.

However I don't believe you can do a program without progesterone of some sort. As time goes on the abundance of phytoestrogens overwork the receptors in the body and build up a resistance. But unlike other chemicals like caffeine. You can't just take more to get the same effect. Progesterone helps to re-sensitize the receptors to keep your PM effective.

PC cream just happens to be the most effective source. It may be a case of in Japan PC cream is not legal like Australia. Which may be why she uses b-up. Or it may not, who knows. But PC cream is the best available source to get guaranteed progesterone.

So do you think using a PM cream all month long is ok with the IUD Mirena??? It is a progesterone based IUD.