[marytay]

I was looking under a thread in the general discussion section that mentioned that PM does not give permanent results unless you continually take it for the rest of your life! Is this true? I recent started taking PM and it is the only supplement that has given me any results. Has anyone used this herb and had a permanent result? I hate to think that my hard work could go to waste .

[Paloma]

From my research, and I've done a ton of it, nobody really knows. There are people who say they've grown from PM and kept it, but if you look at their routines, they've all gone on to other things, so their bodies are still undergoing NBE attempts of one type or another.... come to think of it, that's why they're still around to consult with - I assume if anyone has had permanent results from just PM, they quit coming here and we never hear from them again.

Unfortunately there is very little quality info out there on PM... Practically no actual scientific info, just lots of sloppy pseudo-scientific "research" posted on the many many sites trying to sell you their product... it's annoying as all hell. So make sure you post your experiences and let us know what you find out!

I've written to several PM distributers, but nobody ever responds, or if they do they are deliberately evasive and give me plenty of run-around, but never any substantial information. I don't get what they're hiding, but def something.... maybe they just don't want to admit they don't know anything.

Out of curiousity... what have you experienced? What brand, what dosage, how long, how much growth?

I'm a 36 A, been taking ro-bust for 2 cycles, topical 2-3x day, internal 300mgs/day... so far no noticeable growth.

[carlaa1124]

I have about 30 papers regarding pueraria miifica. Lots of science of science. The scientific community has no motivation to do consumer breast enhancement studies.


Why should they?

[Paloma]

I have about 30 papers regarding pueraria miifica. Lots of science of science. The scientific community has no motivation to do consumer breast enhancement studies.


Why should they?

I agree it's probably of no interest to them.

So what you're saying is that they don't know anything about PM as it relates to breast enhancement... since it's never been studied.

That explains why distributors give me the run around and don't just admit that they don't really know.

[carlaa1124]

What exists are animal studies. It is not like you can biopsy or cut the breast off and analyze the tissue.

Young overectomized animals ...(their bodies now produce no estrogen) when given miroestrol grew breasts. Young Overectomized animals that were not given miroestrol did not grow breasts. Study done in England in the early 1960's.

[Paloma]

What exists are animal studies. It is not like you can biopsy or cut the breast off and analyze the tissue.

Young overectomized animals ...(their bodies now produce no estrogen) when given miroestrol grew breasts. Young Overectomized animals that were not given miroestrol did not grow breasts. Study done in England in the early 1960's.

You mean "ovariectomized" ...?

Right, that's fascinating... but the original question was whether PM gave permanent results, and the asker was asking in relation to herself, not in relation to young, ovariectomized animals.

Since (as you say) you can't just biopsy human breast tissue to find out (whether increased size is due to cell turgidity vs. proliferation), nobody really knows.... agreed?

If you would care to share the research you are referencing, we could at least examine it to see whether the study includes an analysis of biopsied breast tissue from the ovariectomized young animals, and perhaps draw some TENTATIVE generalizations about the way the PM acts on living tissue, while keeping in mind that we women are not young animals whose ovaries have been surgically removed and therefor can't draw a one-to-one comparison.

I'd also be interested in knowing:

- what was the hypothesis? what questions did the researchers seek to answer?
- what species of animal was used, and in what stage of development were they?
- why was ovariectomization chosen, rather than simply establishing baseline and post-experimentation hormone levels?
- what were the dosages of PM per pound body weight for the animal?
- how long was the testing period?
- how did the researchers quantify the term "growth" ?
- what other side effects/unexpected consequences were observed?
- were the animals sacrificed at the end of the study? ...or is there any long term analysis of the subject's health, development, mortality of breast tissue, following administration of the testing conditions?

Are you equipped to discuss this?

[carlaa1124]

thank you for correcting my spelling..........


Wake up......no estrogen, no breasts............the breasts on the animals did not disappear after miroestrol. IF they had no estrogen no developement of adult breasts...........biology 101.


I am not spoon feeding....the paper is out there it is a few clicks away. At least the citation is out there. You can take it your university library. Done at the University of Reading

[/b]Now go get em P

[Paloma]

Wake up......no estrogen, no breasts............the breasts on the animals did not disappear after miroestrol. IF they had no estrogen no developement of adult breasts...........biology 101.

What question does this ramble pertain to?

[marytay]

Thanks for all the input everyone! It seems like you all have done a lot of research. I just remember reading a form that said that PM only causes swelling but the growth I've had doesn't seem like just swelling.

As for Paloma's questions...I am taking a brand of PM called Ainterol. I've used it for a little over a month with a mixture of fenugreek,saw palmetto, and red clover. I have gained 1 inch in the month that I've used it. I can tell that it doesn't seem like swelling because my actual breast tissue makes a full circle now..before my breasts felt like they had grape size knots...it wasn't fully developed and they even bounce now! Yay hah.

I've recently heard that Ainterol is a bad brand but it seems to work for me and I know there is one girl in the before and after picture section gained one full size from using Ainterol so I think it's not as bad as people say.

On the website, ainterolherbs.com, they give a description of how to take the herbs. They say take 2 PM capsules a day, one in the morning and one at night, with a warm cup of milk. It also says to take saw palmetto to reduce testosterone and fenugreek to add prolaction levels.

I take my mixture 3times a day though and I just started using a PM spray for breast massage yesterday. I've been to lazy to keep up with massages but I'm going to start now...the site says to massage 3 times a day.

[Paloma]

Wow, congratulations Marytay! And thanks very much for the feedback.

I've read that taking fenugreek and other herbs reduces the effect of PM ...because the weaker phytoestrogens in fenugreek will displace some of the stronger ones from the PM on your estrogen receptors... and so some people say you should not combine the two herbs. HOWEVER the levels of hormones need to be just right for your particular body, so if the Fenugreek IS reducing the action of the PM, maybe that's just what you need, since you're seeing signs of progress.

My (unsolicited )advice is to stick to whatever is giving you growth, and don't increase or decrease unless you observe that it has stopped working for at least a whole cycle. More isn't necessarily better - too much will cause you to down regulate your own estrogen production, resulting in diminished progress. Too much estrogen can also cause other negative side effects and ill health.

Anyways, interesting feedback about Ainterol as well - there's been a lot of controversy, as you know.

Keep up the good work hon, and keep us posted.