[AbiDrew85]

Something I PM'd timarie that she asked me to share onto her thread:

Soooo...

I'm going to start by explaining as much as I can think of about the interactions of the NORMAL androgen portion of the endocrine systems as they relate to the FEMALE body... Which differs only slightly from a MALE body.

Androgens are produced primarily from the progesterone pathway, but also through a side-chain pathway, from pregnenolone, which is itself also a progestin.

Curiously, it's the pregnenolone pathway that seems to be most over-active in the majority of female hirsutism cases... But that's unrelated to your own case haha. Just something curious that I've come across lol.

From pregnenolone, the 17-alpha-hydroxylase enzyme ADDS an OH molecule, and the 17,20 lyase enzyme takes it away again and reduces the total size of the chain by eliminating the entire bonding site the OH molecule bonded to and an additional unused bonding site. This produces the first androgen in the pathway, DHEA.

From DHEA the 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme, despite its name, further reduces the chain by hydrogenating it and producing androstanediol.

At any point along the pregnenolone pathway the 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme can convert it over to the main pathway, which starts with progesterone.

From progesterone the same process that produced DHEA produces androsteniodone, which, like it's counterpart on the pregnenolone pathway, is the first androgen of the pathway.

The same enzyme that produced androstanediol reduces this chain to testosterone, and as you already know, the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme turns this into DHT.

As you are also likely aware, aromatase turns testosterone into estradiol. What you might not know is that aromatase also changes androsteniodone into estrone and just like the two androgen side-chains, it's 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase that makes estrone into estradiol.

So, now. What chinese skullcap does is it partially inhibits both 17,20 lyase and 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase... So..... We need to be careful, ESPECIALLY in a female system, not to over-use it. ESPECIALLY because while it partially inhibits both of those reductions, it more strongly inhibits 17-beta-HSD...

This can potentially lead to a E1/E2 imbalance. Which is VERY VERY VEEEEEEEEERY potentially bad. As in. Leads to elevated cancer risk bad.

I don't have to worry much because, as a genetic male, and especially as such a damned "skinny bitch" I have very little aromatase to produce ANY natural estrogens with. I would have had to worry if I started off with CS instead of with licorice over two years ago when I still weighed 180 pounds...

But you're female, and judging by your hormone balance, there's NOTHING wrong with your aromatase levels. So... BIG RISK taking too much.

So here's where another facet of the endocrine system comes in to help save us. Sex-hormone-binding-globulin. SHBG for short. What SHBG does is it picks up any left over steroids not being bound to any other receptors and deactivates them, which then allows them to be removed from the body through the normal waste elimination processes.

A curious phenomenon that's not entirely understood WHY it works this way, but it's simply accepted that it does, is that when receptors are being blocked, the hormone that would go for that receptor doesn't even try and gets picked up by SHBG even quicker. And SHBG already plays favorites and prefers androgens...

So that's where the spearmint comes in. It doesn't play with any enzymes at all, it simply just blocks off the androgen receptors, and with the absolutely smallest and least androgenically active phyto-hormone known. Since it's so small and so inactive it both moves through the blood system quickly, and reduces the overall androgen traffic significantly, which makes SHBG have a field day picking up and eliminating androgens.

Now... You actually do need SOME testosterone, so that's why we're going low doses on each. Reduce the traffic just enough to allow for an increase in the estrogenic and progestagenic traffic without allowing congestion to occur while also not reducing it so far that you can't keep up your resistance training.

So... I hope that all made sense! It really did need a bigger picture look at the entire system in order to explain.

And now... Why I think fenugreek is the best choice for timarie for a prolactin boost...

I did a lot of research into a way I could cyclically boost my prolactin without changing any other hormones much or at all if at all possible back when I decided on using fenugreek myself. Since timarie shares that same desire, she may as well go with my own decision

When I was studying I found that most proven to be raising prolactin galactagogues are also massive sources of weak phytoestrogens... This is fantastic if what you want to do really is to start producing milk. It's awful if you're wanting prolactin for any other reason.

Goat's rue was even more intriguing because it seems it never raised any prolactin levels at all when a study was done on it... But it did make about half the women start lactating. So why it works as a galactagogue or how is anyones guess, but it does NOT raise prolactin.

Now. There's a LOT of misinformation about what fenugreek actually does do... It's properties in regards to estrogen and progesterone are purely adaptogenic. It'd seem to raise the ceiling at which the negative feedback loops begin to occur, allowing you to raise your levels beyond the usual cut off. So when combined with a powerful HRT program it appears to be even more estrogenic, but in reality, it's just preventing your body from deciding it no longer needs to make more hormones.

It's also a weak anti-androgen by direct effect. It blocks mainly the side-chain conversion into the primary chain androgens via the 3-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme mentioned in the above spiel about anti-androgens.

So from what I found on fenugreek it fit the bill perfectly. Allows me to jack up my hormones even more, help fight my androgen beast, and give me a boost of prolactin, all in one herb, but without delivering any other hormones.

The anti-androgen effect at the doses you'd use are very very weak, I really wouldn't consider it worth mentioning except for completeness sake.