10-01-2010, 16:38
Pleasure to meet you too.
Wow what a reply
It is absolutely right that fenugreek is used as a lactation aid and probably does so by stimulating prolactin. Also it surely does stimulate the mammary glands and causes the breast to grow.
It is also true that high prolactin levels as such are not a direct cause of PCOS even though those mechanisms are not fully understood.
However, here is why I think that prolactin is not the factor in fenugreek that causes permanent breast growth. First of all I'd like to point out that any breast growth that occurs due to high levels of prolactin is probably only temporary. The study that you cited on the effect of prolactin on breast development (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1256452/) actually says "for the duration of the experiment". And this effect is als all too common in pregnant women. Most of them have a significant gain in size while pregnant and while nursing but substantially shrink afterward.
Second, even though high prolactin levels are no direct cause of PCOS it still substantially interferes with the endocrine sytem.
It causes elevated androgens via two mechanisms. One is that it directly stimulates the adrenal glands to produce more androgens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6090494
The other is that by inhibiting the ovarian function it supresses the body's most important source of estrogen. Most of the body's estrogen is produced in the ovaries. This would be enough to throw your body's balance off and even if the production in the adrenal glands remained the same it could give you symptoms of elevated androgens.
This effect would be enhanced by an increased production in the adrenal glands or even in the ovaries by inhibiting FSH which is resposible for converting androgens into estrogens in the granulosa cells and related enzyme activities.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7468715
Of course it does not always happen depending on your individual hormone profile and how much prolactin is present.
The diffenrent effect in men, namely the decreased testosterone production happens because prolactin inhibits hormone production in the gonads (testes or ovaries). Since testosterone is the major hormone that is produced in the testes its production significantly declines. While the major hormone that is produced (or supposed to be produced) in the ovaries is estrogen and thus it is estrogen which declines in women.
But I think you are absolutely right when you say that too much of anything can cause negative effects on the body and that a moderate usage of such herbs will not cause substantial negative side effects.
My point is that I personally don't think that prolactin is of any benefit for *permanent* breast growth and that excess amounts may even be harmful. I wasn't trying to say that taking fenugreek or similar herbs has a negative effect but that you should be careful too increase your prolactin levels any further than necessary. For example by stimulating your nipples or subjecting yourself to large amounts of other physical or mental stress.
Hope that kind of clarifies my post
Wow what a reply
It is absolutely right that fenugreek is used as a lactation aid and probably does so by stimulating prolactin. Also it surely does stimulate the mammary glands and causes the breast to grow.
It is also true that high prolactin levels as such are not a direct cause of PCOS even though those mechanisms are not fully understood.
However, here is why I think that prolactin is not the factor in fenugreek that causes permanent breast growth. First of all I'd like to point out that any breast growth that occurs due to high levels of prolactin is probably only temporary. The study that you cited on the effect of prolactin on breast development (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1256452/) actually says "for the duration of the experiment". And this effect is als all too common in pregnant women. Most of them have a significant gain in size while pregnant and while nursing but substantially shrink afterward.
Second, even though high prolactin levels are no direct cause of PCOS it still substantially interferes with the endocrine sytem.
It causes elevated androgens via two mechanisms. One is that it directly stimulates the adrenal glands to produce more androgens.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6090494
The other is that by inhibiting the ovarian function it supresses the body's most important source of estrogen. Most of the body's estrogen is produced in the ovaries. This would be enough to throw your body's balance off and even if the production in the adrenal glands remained the same it could give you symptoms of elevated androgens.
This effect would be enhanced by an increased production in the adrenal glands or even in the ovaries by inhibiting FSH which is resposible for converting androgens into estrogens in the granulosa cells and related enzyme activities.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7468715
Of course it does not always happen depending on your individual hormone profile and how much prolactin is present.
The diffenrent effect in men, namely the decreased testosterone production happens because prolactin inhibits hormone production in the gonads (testes or ovaries). Since testosterone is the major hormone that is produced in the testes its production significantly declines. While the major hormone that is produced (or supposed to be produced) in the ovaries is estrogen and thus it is estrogen which declines in women.
But I think you are absolutely right when you say that too much of anything can cause negative effects on the body and that a moderate usage of such herbs will not cause substantial negative side effects.
My point is that I personally don't think that prolactin is of any benefit for *permanent* breast growth and that excess amounts may even be harmful. I wasn't trying to say that taking fenugreek or similar herbs has a negative effect but that you should be careful too increase your prolactin levels any further than necessary. For example by stimulating your nipples or subjecting yourself to large amounts of other physical or mental stress.
Hope that kind of clarifies my post