[shortcake]

Could be the milk thistle. Susan found literature saying it's a phyto-estrogen too.

Hey Isabelle I think dandelion is also a phyto-estrogen. OOps no it isnt I just read it removes excess estrogen from the body..

Susan, this is exactly what I came here to ask! In researching I have found some sites that say it is a phytoestrogen:
http://www.dandelionteastore.com/can-intake-of-herb-dandelion-root-really-affect-your-breast-size/
http://www.menopause-metamorphosis.com/An_Article-phytoestrogens.htm

and others that say it merely clears the estrogen receptors:
http://www.breast-enhancement-options.com/breast_enhancement_herbs.html

while this one states that it's a galactagogue:
http://www.mobimotherhood.org/MM/article-herbal2.aspx

This all has me a little intrigued! Here I've taken WonderUp with some serious sensations in my breasts, but they were never consistant and I never achieved any bit of soreness. I also experienced negative physical side-effects. I then tried BO in which I thought I felt better while taking and did get some sporadic tenderness in my breasts, but felt horrible once my period came and I had bad acne with it. Since beginning what I thought was my break/cleanse I've felt much more balanced, calm (much less anxiety), and have had no bad effects. Instead, it seems I've stumbled on something that's actually having an impact on my breasts. All I'm taking is collagen, MSM, Dandelion, and the occasional Milk Thistle. It's the most simple and basic thing I've done thus far, yet it's having the most effect.

Today not only is my right breast still sore, but my left is now as well. Both nipples are very sore. I measured last night and today and I'm now at 30 1/2", which is a 1/2" increase from not even a full week ago. I never experienced an increase like that with anything else I've taken. I'm by no means claiming it as growth at this point, but it's still a change, and much more of a change than I've had so far from anything else.

I realize the Milk Thistle is a phytoestrogen but I must admit I've taken it very sporadically due to the headaches I get when I combine it with Dandelion. I've taken Milk Thistle in the past for lots of liver cleanses and it's never made me sore before. Also, I've purposely taken them spaced apart and definitely feel more going on in my breasts after taking the Dandelion. So I'm more inclined to think it's due to the Dandelion, or possibly a combination of both. Interesting!

Isabelle, this has got me thinking. I know I've planned on using PM with my next cycle and I may still do that. But I'm wanting to look into this a little further. It seems I may respond best to the "weaker" phytoestrogens, which makes sense since I seem to become estrogen dominant so easily. I know I've called on you a lot to help me with these things so I'm sorry to do it again! But I'm just curious, if I were to go on an individual herb program using some of the weaker herbs, what would you recommend I take? I know hops is out for me, but other than that I think I'm okay with the others. If I were to include Dandelion, Fennel, and Licorice, what else would you think I should add? I've reviewed the list of alternatives to hops you recently posted but I'm just not sure which ones are the strongest and which are weaker. You don't need to put a whole lot of thought into it; I'm really just curious as to what I'd be looking at taking. Also, if you have any input into whether or not Dandelion is actually a phytoestrogen or not, that'd be great to know as well! At this point I'm almost afraid to start taking PM and risk messing up whatever I've got going right now! Not sure what I should do?

Susan,

What you said makes total sense - the headaches could very well be due to the all the toxins being released and cleared. I'm going to do an experiment and cut out the Milk Thistle to see if the headaches go away completely. I'll let you know what happens!

As for EFAs, I've only taken Flaxseed Oil and Borage Oil while on NBE. Does that count?