10-03-2023, 04:06
When looking at purchasing fenugreek, I became frustrated by the vague descriptions on what is what. Some fenugreek capsules appear to be just ground up seeds, some capsules are labeled 'extract'. Hardly anything I can find lists percentage saponins or anything else useful, despite most advice I see to mandate > 50% saponins. How would anyone know if it isn't on the label? I became interested on focusing on raw seeds or processing them into something where I knew what I was getting, or at least what I was starting with. In my research I came across this article that discusses deriving extract from fenugreek seeds, and actually lists the percentage saponins (amongst other compounds) that they were able to obtain:
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/736/2/022024/pdf
The authors discuss microwave assisted extraction, which I am going to ignore since I don't have a lab at home. As far as I can tell this type of extraction is lauded for its ability to hold a solution at a given temperature with high through-put. I don't care much about through-put, mostly I care about doing things safely on a budget at home. Since I am able to replicate holding a solution of grain alcohol around 70degC with ground fenugreek in it for a few minutes - that's what I did.
In the study their results indicate that: "The optimal conditions of parameters obtained at 2.84 min irradiation time, microwave oven power 572.50 W, ethanol concentration 63.68% and 0.09 g/mL feed-to-solvent ratio. Based on the suggested optimum conditions the obtained responses of TSC and TPC were 195.89 ± 1.07 (mg DE/g d.w), 81.85 ± 0.61 (mg GAE/g d.w), respectively, (n=3)"
I interpret these findings as the extract containing 196mg of saponins per g (1000mg) of ground fenugreek. I think this is a pretty solid return given fenugreek seeds are only a few bucks for a couple hundred grams.
For my home setup, I used 100mL of 45% abv vodka, with 10g of ground fenugreek. I started with whole seeds and thoroughly ran them through a spice grinder. I put it on the stove at about 65degC for about 5 minutes, checking with a thermometer the whole time. I took the solution and actually had to add back some water as much of the alcohol evaporated off in the process and it was starting to turn into a bit of a paste and was too thick to strain. I first tried filtering with a paper coffee filter, but the solution was too thick (or the particles of fenugreek too fine) that this didn't work. I resorted to using a tea diffuser, which worked well. This resulted in a cloudy yellow liquid that certainly smelled of fenugreek. They weren't lying about saponin content either, as it is slick to the touch and does resemble soap on your fingertips.
I truly have no idea what the concentration of the resulting tincture is. However, I can safely (I hope) presume that it can only be below what the authors derived under optimal conditions. Maybe I have half of the total saponin content they were able to achieve? Who can say.
Think this stuff is safe to mix into my tea? Considering a "safe" dose is around 600mg fenugreek @ 50% saponins, 300mg total saponin would be the goal for a daily dose I guess. However, there is a difference in absorption between a liquid extract and a capsule as well, so I am thinking this stuff is probably pretty potent. What next? Does someone want to check my math?
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/736/2/022024/pdf
The authors discuss microwave assisted extraction, which I am going to ignore since I don't have a lab at home. As far as I can tell this type of extraction is lauded for its ability to hold a solution at a given temperature with high through-put. I don't care much about through-put, mostly I care about doing things safely on a budget at home. Since I am able to replicate holding a solution of grain alcohol around 70degC with ground fenugreek in it for a few minutes - that's what I did.
In the study their results indicate that: "The optimal conditions of parameters obtained at 2.84 min irradiation time, microwave oven power 572.50 W, ethanol concentration 63.68% and 0.09 g/mL feed-to-solvent ratio. Based on the suggested optimum conditions the obtained responses of TSC and TPC were 195.89 ± 1.07 (mg DE/g d.w), 81.85 ± 0.61 (mg GAE/g d.w), respectively, (n=3)"
I interpret these findings as the extract containing 196mg of saponins per g (1000mg) of ground fenugreek. I think this is a pretty solid return given fenugreek seeds are only a few bucks for a couple hundred grams.
For my home setup, I used 100mL of 45% abv vodka, with 10g of ground fenugreek. I started with whole seeds and thoroughly ran them through a spice grinder. I put it on the stove at about 65degC for about 5 minutes, checking with a thermometer the whole time. I took the solution and actually had to add back some water as much of the alcohol evaporated off in the process and it was starting to turn into a bit of a paste and was too thick to strain. I first tried filtering with a paper coffee filter, but the solution was too thick (or the particles of fenugreek too fine) that this didn't work. I resorted to using a tea diffuser, which worked well. This resulted in a cloudy yellow liquid that certainly smelled of fenugreek. They weren't lying about saponin content either, as it is slick to the touch and does resemble soap on your fingertips.
I truly have no idea what the concentration of the resulting tincture is. However, I can safely (I hope) presume that it can only be below what the authors derived under optimal conditions. Maybe I have half of the total saponin content they were able to achieve? Who can say.
Think this stuff is safe to mix into my tea? Considering a "safe" dose is around 600mg fenugreek @ 50% saponins, 300mg total saponin would be the goal for a daily dose I guess. However, there is a difference in absorption between a liquid extract and a capsule as well, so I am thinking this stuff is probably pretty potent. What next? Does someone want to check my math?