10-03-2016, 12:29
Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 18 2009 at 3:05 AM LisaGirl (Login LisaGirl)
Hi Wahaika - a question please on the amount of fenugreek.
I saw your response to someone else regarding the dosage of fenugreek... you said
"I think that for your size (age? height? weight?) that 2000 to 3000mg per day spread out, is about the right dosage if you have already had children. If not, keep it closer to 2000."
... can you tell me why it matters if you have already had children or not? I have not (am 37 - still hoping to have one someday).
Also, I am overweight - probably over 175lbs - but that does not mean I have big boobies :-( I am wondering what dosage of fenugreek to take.
Currently I am taking fenugreek - 6 pills a day (610 mg each) - which is 3660mg plus WU (so whatever is added from that). Is this TOO much? should I take more since I am a large frame/overweight?
Thanks in advance -
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 4:12 PM
Hello LisaGirl,
Here are the answers to your questions as I understand it (meaning I could be wrong but I don't think so).
>>"... can you tell me why it matters if you have already had children or not? I have not (am 37 - still hoping to have one someday)."
There are two facts that relate to your question.
1. Breast development is not considered complete until after a pregnancy and breastfeeding.
2. Nobody on the planet knows how breast development occurs in terms of specific steps.
Once women have gone through pregnancy and lactation, the natural enlargement and development is complete. Therefore all one would have to do is to rebuild what was already there at one time. This is easier than trying to initiate it with herbs or even with prescription hormones. For women who have breastfed, it is just a matter of rebuilding, or refilling, what was already there.
Not to say that breast development cannot occur up to the point of what would be natural pre-pregnancy full development. Someone who is in the years that growth hormone is still high (before late 20'a) could pull it off with the right program.
>>"Also, I am overweight - probably over 175lbs - but that does not mean I have big boobies :-( I am wondering what dosage of fenugreek to take.
Currently I am taking fenugreek - 6 pills a day (610 mg each) - which is 3660mg plus WU (so whatever is added from that). Is this TOO much? should I take more since I am a large frame/overweight?"
Body fat is one of those things that makes NBE harder because of the way that herbs work. There are a few rules that I follow when trying to understand it:
1. As a health mechanism, the body as a priority order for fat distribution and management. The body will put fat on muscle first/organs last, and take the fat off organs first/muscle last. Have you ever heard women complain about trying to lose weight and it comes off the breasts first? This is why.
2. Herbs bind weakly to receptors. Therefore if one body part has more receptor sites than another body part, the first body part will have more effect than the second body part. Using estrogen as an example, if the butt has more fat than the stomach, the butt gets bigger faster when taking estrogenic herbs.
The herbs that are phytoestrogens such as fenugreek work by "binding weakly" to estrogen receptors. The places on women's bodies that have cells with estrogen receptors are breasts, stomach, back, hips, thighs, all the places that give women the curvy figure characteristics. The more cells that exist, the more they are absorbed to those places.
If we put those two rules together, what do we get as far as NBE is concerned?
We get general conditions that range from best for NBE to worse for NBE. Those who are generally overweight and those who are generally underweight will not do as well as those who are somewhere in the middle. If one is over or under weight, then they have to compensate in other ways in order to raise their chances of success in NBE. For some, this means putting on a little weight, for others, it means taking off some body weight. It is all part of an NBE program every bit as much as taking the right combination of herbs. While the focus of the effort is the breasts, the entire body needs to be taken into account. This also is why NBE Rule #1 is to be healthy before starting.
In answer to the dosage part of the question, I think that the best thing you could do is to first get your body into a condition where it is at the weight that you think it should be, and taking internals is not enough control over where they go at this time.
I think that massaging herbs directly would be more effective than taking internals. This is because your overweight condition is taking up all of what you are now taking internally. The logical thing to do, as you are probably seeing no effect, is to raise the dosage. But the reason you are probably seeing no effect is because your body is absorbing the herbs everywhere which is slowly making the overweight condition worse but maybe not at a noticable rate right now. If you raise your dosage to a point where it makes noticable changes, I think you would find that the changes are body wide and would make the overweight condition worse. And estrogenic fat is far harder to lose than insulin placed fat. Therefore if you are going to do anything, massaging the herbs in externally seems a better and more direct approach than taking internals at this time.
Does this make sense?
Wahaika
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 4:44 PM
Wahaika - But we can sometimes hear from girls who were successful with NBE that it also made them lose tummy and fat in other places. Why would that be? I always had the impression that tummy fat and small breasts often come together. Albeit just tummy fat and still a slim figure all over. Is that sort of figure characteristic of estrgen defficiency maybe?
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 4:57 PM
Hello Moon, It could be. It could also be a lifestyle characteristic (like a starchy diet and little exercise) and it could also be estrogen dominance but with a genetic code that started out with a bigger stomach. I have never noticed that tummy fat and small breasts go together, but now that you mention it, I think you're right.
I think that those who lose tummy fat would not be considered in the overweight category and were probably doing some kind of exercise as part of/at the same time as their BE program - but not to lose fat rapidly. Rapid weight loss also results in depletion of breast fat first.
LisaGirl
(Login LisaGirl)
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 7:12 PM
Thank you Wahaika (and Moon) for your responses. I guess I am 'abnormal' then - ha ha. I have always heard of others losing weight or gaining weight in their boobs first; however, this has never happened to me. I have been heavier than I am now and I have weighed quite a bit less but my boobs have always been about the same. I know this is not 'typical' but it is true for me.
Also, quite strangely, I have been having good results so far with NBE. As mentioned - I am only taking WU and fenugreek at this time. I massage with cocoa butter and PM... and sometimes with WU cream. So far (in about 6-8 weeks) I have gained about an inch - actually I was measuring 1.25 inches today... so I am quite pleased.
Regarding Moons comment about belly fat, etc., I have actually noticed that I am SMALLER around my torso and belly since starting NBE. It may be something to do with the way I massage and try to 'move' that extra fat upwards to my breast or how I try to bring it around from my back/armpit area ... I am not sure ... but even my 'under breast' measurement has gone down while my breasts measurement has gone up!
The reason for the fat loss in my mid-section may also be that I have been exercising on a rebounder quite a bit lately. (For those that don't know, rebounding is very beneficial for health and absolutely wonderful for flushing out the lymphatic system. Google 'benefits of rebounding' for more).
So, while my boobs have been growing, my stomach/torso and even legs have been reducing and even toning up! Needless to say I am very excited!!
Again, I appreciate your response - and what you say makes perfect sense... even though that is not what I am experiencing. I guess my main concern was that I didn't want to somehow be taking TOO MUCH Fenugreek - something that could harm me - especially if I still want to become pregnant sometime in the near future. So as long as that is not the case, I assume I am okay with my plan the way it is now.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 9:47 PM
Lisagirl, I am glad that it is working out for you. 1.25 inches in 6 to 8 weeks is a really GOOD response. It looks like you are already doing the right things and it is working. Good luck!!
May 18 2009 at 3:05 AM LisaGirl (Login LisaGirl)
Hi Wahaika - a question please on the amount of fenugreek.
I saw your response to someone else regarding the dosage of fenugreek... you said
"I think that for your size (age? height? weight?) that 2000 to 3000mg per day spread out, is about the right dosage if you have already had children. If not, keep it closer to 2000."
... can you tell me why it matters if you have already had children or not? I have not (am 37 - still hoping to have one someday).
Also, I am overweight - probably over 175lbs - but that does not mean I have big boobies :-( I am wondering what dosage of fenugreek to take.
Currently I am taking fenugreek - 6 pills a day (610 mg each) - which is 3660mg plus WU (so whatever is added from that). Is this TOO much? should I take more since I am a large frame/overweight?
Thanks in advance -
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 4:12 PM
Hello LisaGirl,
Here are the answers to your questions as I understand it (meaning I could be wrong but I don't think so).
>>"... can you tell me why it matters if you have already had children or not? I have not (am 37 - still hoping to have one someday)."
There are two facts that relate to your question.
1. Breast development is not considered complete until after a pregnancy and breastfeeding.
2. Nobody on the planet knows how breast development occurs in terms of specific steps.
Once women have gone through pregnancy and lactation, the natural enlargement and development is complete. Therefore all one would have to do is to rebuild what was already there at one time. This is easier than trying to initiate it with herbs or even with prescription hormones. For women who have breastfed, it is just a matter of rebuilding, or refilling, what was already there.
Not to say that breast development cannot occur up to the point of what would be natural pre-pregnancy full development. Someone who is in the years that growth hormone is still high (before late 20'a) could pull it off with the right program.
>>"Also, I am overweight - probably over 175lbs - but that does not mean I have big boobies :-( I am wondering what dosage of fenugreek to take.
Currently I am taking fenugreek - 6 pills a day (610 mg each) - which is 3660mg plus WU (so whatever is added from that). Is this TOO much? should I take more since I am a large frame/overweight?"
Body fat is one of those things that makes NBE harder because of the way that herbs work. There are a few rules that I follow when trying to understand it:
1. As a health mechanism, the body as a priority order for fat distribution and management. The body will put fat on muscle first/organs last, and take the fat off organs first/muscle last. Have you ever heard women complain about trying to lose weight and it comes off the breasts first? This is why.
2. Herbs bind weakly to receptors. Therefore if one body part has more receptor sites than another body part, the first body part will have more effect than the second body part. Using estrogen as an example, if the butt has more fat than the stomach, the butt gets bigger faster when taking estrogenic herbs.
The herbs that are phytoestrogens such as fenugreek work by "binding weakly" to estrogen receptors. The places on women's bodies that have cells with estrogen receptors are breasts, stomach, back, hips, thighs, all the places that give women the curvy figure characteristics. The more cells that exist, the more they are absorbed to those places.
If we put those two rules together, what do we get as far as NBE is concerned?
We get general conditions that range from best for NBE to worse for NBE. Those who are generally overweight and those who are generally underweight will not do as well as those who are somewhere in the middle. If one is over or under weight, then they have to compensate in other ways in order to raise their chances of success in NBE. For some, this means putting on a little weight, for others, it means taking off some body weight. It is all part of an NBE program every bit as much as taking the right combination of herbs. While the focus of the effort is the breasts, the entire body needs to be taken into account. This also is why NBE Rule #1 is to be healthy before starting.
In answer to the dosage part of the question, I think that the best thing you could do is to first get your body into a condition where it is at the weight that you think it should be, and taking internals is not enough control over where they go at this time.
I think that massaging herbs directly would be more effective than taking internals. This is because your overweight condition is taking up all of what you are now taking internally. The logical thing to do, as you are probably seeing no effect, is to raise the dosage. But the reason you are probably seeing no effect is because your body is absorbing the herbs everywhere which is slowly making the overweight condition worse but maybe not at a noticable rate right now. If you raise your dosage to a point where it makes noticable changes, I think you would find that the changes are body wide and would make the overweight condition worse. And estrogenic fat is far harder to lose than insulin placed fat. Therefore if you are going to do anything, massaging the herbs in externally seems a better and more direct approach than taking internals at this time.
Does this make sense?
Wahaika
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 4:44 PM
Wahaika - But we can sometimes hear from girls who were successful with NBE that it also made them lose tummy and fat in other places. Why would that be? I always had the impression that tummy fat and small breasts often come together. Albeit just tummy fat and still a slim figure all over. Is that sort of figure characteristic of estrgen defficiency maybe?
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 4:57 PM
Hello Moon, It could be. It could also be a lifestyle characteristic (like a starchy diet and little exercise) and it could also be estrogen dominance but with a genetic code that started out with a bigger stomach. I have never noticed that tummy fat and small breasts go together, but now that you mention it, I think you're right.
I think that those who lose tummy fat would not be considered in the overweight category and were probably doing some kind of exercise as part of/at the same time as their BE program - but not to lose fat rapidly. Rapid weight loss also results in depletion of breast fat first.
LisaGirl
(Login LisaGirl)
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 7:12 PM
Thank you Wahaika (and Moon) for your responses. I guess I am 'abnormal' then - ha ha. I have always heard of others losing weight or gaining weight in their boobs first; however, this has never happened to me. I have been heavier than I am now and I have weighed quite a bit less but my boobs have always been about the same. I know this is not 'typical' but it is true for me.
Also, quite strangely, I have been having good results so far with NBE. As mentioned - I am only taking WU and fenugreek at this time. I massage with cocoa butter and PM... and sometimes with WU cream. So far (in about 6-8 weeks) I have gained about an inch - actually I was measuring 1.25 inches today... so I am quite pleased.
Regarding Moons comment about belly fat, etc., I have actually noticed that I am SMALLER around my torso and belly since starting NBE. It may be something to do with the way I massage and try to 'move' that extra fat upwards to my breast or how I try to bring it around from my back/armpit area ... I am not sure ... but even my 'under breast' measurement has gone down while my breasts measurement has gone up!
The reason for the fat loss in my mid-section may also be that I have been exercising on a rebounder quite a bit lately. (For those that don't know, rebounding
So, while my boobs have been growing, my stomach/torso and even legs have been reducing and even toning up! Needless to say I am very excited!!
Again, I appreciate your response - and what you say makes perfect sense... even though that is not what I am experiencing. I guess my main concern was that I didn't want to somehow be taking TOO MUCH Fenugreek - something that could harm me - especially if I still want to become pregnant sometime in the near future. So as long as that is not the case, I assume I am okay with my plan the way it is now.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Wahaika - amt of fenugreek
May 19 2009, 9:47 PM
Lisagirl, I am glad that it is working out for you. 1.25 inches in 6 to 8 weeks is a really GOOD response. It looks like you are already doing the right things and it is working. Good luck!!