06-03-2016, 13:30
Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007 at 4:39 AM Corrie (Login Corrie73)
Hi Everyone, here is an update on what happened to me when I attempted to vary my herbs throughout my cycle, in order to support/increase estrogen in the follicular phase and support/increase progesterone during the luteal phase.
Basically, I ramped up fenugreek and damiana (both phytoestrogens) during days 1-14. Then, during days 15-28, I ramped down the phytoestrogens, and ramped up vitex and wild yam (pro-progesterone herbs). (I took saw palmetto at the same level throughout the month.)
I thought this would be a great plan, but it felt like an emotional rollercoaster. During days 1-14, I was emotional and weepy, signs of high estrogen. Then, during days 15-28, my PMS was worse than it's been since I started taking vitex, several months ago. This is weird, because you'd think that the progesterone-supportive herbs would prevent this, but I think it was the wild yam that did it. For some reason, wild yam never seems to agree with me.
So, I have decided to abandon the cycle-customized herb plan, and on day 1 of my new cycle, I started a very simple plan of fenugreek, saw palmetto, damiana and vitex.
Actually, I have found that damiana doesn't agree with me as well during week 4, probably because it suppresses progesterone, and therefore makes PMS worse. So during weeks 3 and 4, I take a little less damiana and a little more vitex, to prevent PMS. I've been doing this all along and it seems to work.
I hope this helps anyone who is thinking of creating a plan that changes during the month. There's been some talk about that on this board. It sounded great to me, but didn't work so well for me in practice.
Good luck to all!
Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007, 5:47 AM
Hey,
I was thinking of try something similar, but I suspected such a program would not work. You mentioned that the vitex did not help that is because vitex is a slow-acting herb, and may take a couple of months or more to take effect. Taking vitex during the second half of your cycle will do nothing, because it hadn't had enough time to adjust and influence the pituitary gland; even if it did, it would have to spend time undoing the effects of the phytoestrogens. Your plan to reduce your damiana intake during the second part of the cycle, and increase your vitex intake sounds about right.
-------------------------
Those who cannot remember the past will spend a lot of time looking for their cars in mall parking lots. -- Jay Trachman
Corrie
(Login Corrie73)
Re: Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007, 6:35 PM
Hi Moonkissed --
Actually, I have been taking vitex for three or four months now, and it normally works great to prevent PMS. But I notice that if I take too much damiana during weeks 3 and 4, that it counteracts the vitex, to some extent. I guess this is because damiana suppresses progesterone, and low progesterone during the luteal phase is a cause of PMS, as I understand it. I am taking the damiana more for libido than for NBE, although I feel that it does help with NBE too. It works great for libido, so I don't want to quit taking it, but I have been ramping it down during weeks 3 and 4, and ramping vitex up during those weeks, and I take vitex the rest of the month too.
I am just going to stick to a very basic program for now. It seems to be working, gradually. My only issue is that I am also gaining weight, probably from the fenugreek, saw palmetto, and extra food and protein shakes. So, yes, my boobs are bigger, but my butt is now a DD! And my tummy and thighs are looking more curvy too. I am hoping that I can keep this all over voluptuousness in check by working out at the gym, but I've been so busy, I can hardly get in there more than once or twice a week. So, I may have to change my program if I keep gaining weight.
Good luck growing!
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007, 9:26 PM
Hello Corrie,
I have a TON of questions for you if you have the time to answer them. But for now I only have 2 questions:
* How long did you do your routine?
* Aside from the emotional rollercoaster you get any growth or signs of growth from it?
Thanks,
Wahaika
Corrie
(Login Corrie73)
Re: Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 11 2007, 3:00 AM
Hi Wahaika --
First let me say that I really respect the knowledge and experience you bring to this forum. I find it enormously helpful.
To answer your questions:
1) I only tried the phase-specific routine for 1 month. I just couldn't take the moodiness; since I tend to be moody anyways, it was just too much for me. I actually have to customize my routine according to my tendency to be moody, thus the vitex and damiana ramping.
This was not my first month of NBE, however. I started in October, so I've had these herbs in my system for 5-6 months now. What I did do differently during that cycle (last month), was to ramp up fenugreek and damiana during weeks 1 and 2, and then ramp them down during weeks 3 and 4, while ramping up vitex and wild yam. (I still took a smaller amount of vitex during weeks 1 and 2, and took saw palmetto throughout the cycle.)
2) I do not feel that I grew any better on this routine than other months, but I don't think it hurt my growth either. It seems like it might be workable for someone who wasn't as moody as me, or wasn't particularly sensitive to herbs in any way.
Actually, it occurred to me that if I just keep a very simple routine of fenugreek and saw palmetto, along with damiana and vitex, for libido and PMS, respectively, as well as for NBE, that I would probably grow fine, albeit gradually. This is what gave me my initial growth in my first couple of months, and I didn't start thinking about other programs until I stalled out, in the third month or so, probably from taking fenugreek at too high levels.
This month, I went back onto that simple program, and I feel that my growth is moving along again, although I am quite concerned about my weight gain...I weighed myself today and I've gained nearly 10 pounds since starting NBE. However, I am definitely a C cup now, which I am very happy with, so if I can just get into the gym more often and tone up, and not continue to gain weight, then I will just live with these 10 extra pounds; it's worth it to me for the boobs. If I do continue to gain weight, then I'll have to modify my routine, changing to fennel and nettle root. However, I suspect these herbs aren't as strong, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.
I hope this answers your questions.
Thanks,
Corrie
March 10 2007 at 4:39 AM Corrie (Login Corrie73)
Hi Everyone, here is an update on what happened to me when I attempted to vary my herbs throughout my cycle, in order to support/increase estrogen in the follicular phase and support/increase progesterone during the luteal phase.
Basically, I ramped up fenugreek and damiana (both phytoestrogens) during days 1-14. Then, during days 15-28, I ramped down the phytoestrogens, and ramped up vitex and wild yam (pro-progesterone herbs). (I took saw palmetto at the same level throughout the month.)
I thought this would be a great plan, but it felt like an emotional rollercoaster. During days 1-14, I was emotional and weepy, signs of high estrogen. Then, during days 15-28, my PMS was worse than it's been since I started taking vitex, several months ago. This is weird, because you'd think that the progesterone-supportive herbs would prevent this, but I think it was the wild yam that did it. For some reason, wild yam never seems to agree with me.
So, I have decided to abandon the cycle-customized herb plan, and on day 1 of my new cycle, I started a very simple plan of fenugreek, saw palmetto, damiana and vitex.
Actually, I have found that damiana doesn't agree with me as well during week 4, probably because it suppresses progesterone, and therefore makes PMS worse. So during weeks 3 and 4, I take a little less damiana and a little more vitex, to prevent PMS. I've been doing this all along and it seems to work.
I hope this helps anyone who is thinking of creating a plan that changes during the month. There's been some talk about that on this board. It sounded great to me, but didn't work so well for me in practice.
Good luck to all!
Moonkissed
(Login Moonkissed)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007, 5:47 AM
Hey,
I was thinking of try something similar, but I suspected such a program would not work. You mentioned that the vitex did not help that is because vitex is a slow-acting herb, and may take a couple of months or more to take effect. Taking vitex during the second half of your cycle will do nothing, because it hadn't had enough time to adjust and influence the pituitary gland; even if it did, it would have to spend time undoing the effects of the phytoestrogens. Your plan to reduce your damiana intake during the second part of the cycle, and increase your vitex intake sounds about right.
-------------------------
Those who cannot remember the past will spend a lot of time looking for their cars in mall parking lots. -- Jay Trachman
Corrie
(Login Corrie73)
Re: Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007, 6:35 PM
Hi Moonkissed --
Actually, I have been taking vitex for three or four months now, and it normally works great to prevent PMS. But I notice that if I take too much damiana during weeks 3 and 4, that it counteracts the vitex, to some extent. I guess this is because damiana suppresses progesterone, and low progesterone during the luteal phase is a cause of PMS, as I understand it. I am taking the damiana more for libido than for NBE, although I feel that it does help with NBE too. It works great for libido, so I don't want to quit taking it, but I have been ramping it down during weeks 3 and 4, and ramping vitex up during those weeks, and I take vitex the rest of the month too.
I am just going to stick to a very basic program for now. It seems to be working, gradually. My only issue is that I am also gaining weight, probably from the fenugreek, saw palmetto, and extra food and protein shakes. So, yes, my boobs are bigger, but my butt is now a DD! And my tummy and thighs are looking more curvy too. I am hoping that I can keep this all over voluptuousness in check by working out at the gym, but I've been so busy, I can hardly get in there more than once or twice a week. So, I may have to change my program if I keep gaining weight.
Good luck growing!
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 10 2007, 9:26 PM
Hello Corrie,
I have a TON of questions for you if you have the time to answer them. But for now I only have 2 questions:
* How long did you do your routine?
* Aside from the emotional rollercoaster you get any growth or signs of growth from it?
Thanks,
Wahaika
Corrie
(Login Corrie73)
Re: Tried Varying Herbs With Cycle
March 11 2007, 3:00 AM
Hi Wahaika --
First let me say that I really respect the knowledge and experience you bring to this forum. I find it enormously helpful.
To answer your questions:
1) I only tried the phase-specific routine for 1 month. I just couldn't take the moodiness; since I tend to be moody anyways, it was just too much for me. I actually have to customize my routine according to my tendency to be moody, thus the vitex and damiana ramping.
This was not my first month of NBE, however. I started in October, so I've had these herbs in my system for 5-6 months now. What I did do differently during that cycle (last month), was to ramp up fenugreek and damiana during weeks 1 and 2, and then ramp them down during weeks 3 and 4, while ramping up vitex and wild yam. (I still took a smaller amount of vitex during weeks 1 and 2, and took saw palmetto throughout the cycle.)
2) I do not feel that I grew any better on this routine than other months, but I don't think it hurt my growth either. It seems like it might be workable for someone who wasn't as moody as me, or wasn't particularly sensitive to herbs in any way.
Actually, it occurred to me that if I just keep a very simple routine of fenugreek and saw palmetto, along with damiana and vitex, for libido and PMS, respectively, as well as for NBE, that I would probably grow fine, albeit gradually. This is what gave me my initial growth in my first couple of months, and I didn't start thinking about other programs until I stalled out, in the third month or so, probably from taking fenugreek at too high levels.
This month, I went back onto that simple program, and I feel that my growth is moving along again, although I am quite concerned about my weight gain...I weighed myself today and I've gained nearly 10 pounds since starting NBE. However, I am definitely a C cup now, which I am very happy with, so if I can just get into the gym more often and tone up, and not continue to gain weight, then I will just live with these 10 extra pounds; it's worth it to me for the boobs. If I do continue to gain weight, then I'll have to modify my routine, changing to fennel and nettle root. However, I suspect these herbs aren't as strong, so I'd like to avoid that if possible.
I hope this answers your questions.
Thanks,
Corrie