01-03-2016, 15:48
Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008 at 7:17 PM Sunflower (Login ssunflower)
Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer? Wouldn't that make some NBE programs dangerous?
El
(no login)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 7:24 PM
That's a possibility, yes. You have to do your research and weight the decision for yourself. It's a risk some either don't believe in or are willing to take.
Sunflower
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:20 PM
hmmmmm......i thought it was just the synthetic hormones that caused cancer....something to think about.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:22 PM
Most of these things are supposed to be beneficial as they block estrogen receptors. I think it's established that nothing you take will cause a new tumour to arise but if you have an existing tumour and you raise your estrogen you'll be feeding it.
Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:48 PM
As has been mentioned here before, countries with the highest intake of phytoestrogens in their daily diet actually have the LOWEST rates of breast cancer.
Izumi
(no login)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 17 2008, 4:05 AM
I've read that SOME cancers are estrogen-dependent, but not all of them. I have no scientific expertise, but here's how I've chosen to look at it. If you have an estrogen-dependent cancer, then excess phytoestrogens would probably make it grow; but if you don't have that type of cancer then it probably wouldn't have ill effect. I feel like the reality must be more complex than "estrogen causes cancer." I've also read that a lot of synthetic chemicals in our food and environment have estrogen-like effects on our bodies. Those are probably much more dangerous than herbs.
mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 18 2008, 10:40 PM
short answer, yes. long answer, if you have too much estrogen, way more than your body is supposed to make, then it can increase chances of getting mainly female related cancers [breast, ovarian, uterus, etc.]
typically phytoestrogens dont increase your estrogen higher than you're supposed to have, some women just have lower levels of estrogen and the herbs can increase that to a normal level or maybe a bit higher to encourage breast growth. HOWEVER, it is still possible that the herbs can increase them to abnormally high levels. you just have to be vigilant.
and like what was stated before, if you have any tumors or come susceptibility/sensitivity to estrogen it is more likely to cause cancer. you should make sure you are in good health before starting NBE.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 18 2008, 10:51 PM
I've done more reading on this today, mainly with reference to increased progesterone but it's the same for both. The answer seems to be that if you elevate the level of one or other of the sex hormones (not both) you risk cancer (I think it's estrogen for the uterus and progesterone to the breast) but if you look at the doses they refer to they're massive. Even if you bought HRT and ate the whole pack daily you'd barely get to the doses they're talking about. Also, it's a small increase in the longterm risk which increases with the treatment duration and then reduces back to normal after you stop. Most of them seem to think 5+ years or sometimes 10+ years carry a significant risk (and then it's like a 2% increase) and I don't think any of us will bother to do it for that long! Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your background) the risks are much higher if you have positive family history compared to someone with no family history who takes hormones. Don't forget the articles telling you these things cause cancer are mainly based on birth control and HRT which are a lot stronger and yet loads of us are on the pill.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 19 2008, 4:31 PM
Hi all,
Great discussion and good posts. I just wanted to add my .02 cents (in waxingmoon speak about $1.95 worth of words... lol)
It is estrogen increased without supported progesterone that was proven to cause cancer. Thus giving women estrogen only pills caused a serious rise in uterine cancer. They no longer will proscribe estrogen only pills unless the woman has had a hysterectomy.
As far as phytoestrogens, the effect on total estrogen levels in our bodies is dose and potency dependent.
1. If you take small amounts of a phytoestrogen whatever its potency, you will add to your body's total estrogen amount because the phytoestrogen molecules take up vacant estrogen receptor sites. The higher the potency of the phytoestrogen, the higher the rise of total body estrogen.
2. If you take large amounts of a phytoestrogen that has a low potency (like crushed flax seed) you will decrease your body's total estrogen. The phytoestrogen molecules will take up sites normally occupied by the body's own more potent estrogen, thus there is less total body estrogen.
3. If you take large amounts of a phytoestrogen that has a higher potency than the body's natural estrogen (like PM) you will increase your body's total estrogen. The phytoestrogen molecules will take up the sites normally occupied by the body's less potent estrogen and thus there will be a rise in total body estrogen.
4. If you mix phytoestrogens that have high and low potency, the lower potency phytoestrogens will occupy some sites and the higher dosage phytoestrogens will occupy some sites, which will average the two potencies. This is why it is advised not to use PM or BO with other phytoestrogens. It lowers the total effect.
So anyway, my $1.95 is done...
waxingmoon
October 16 2008 at 7:17 PM Sunflower (Login ssunflower)
Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer? Wouldn't that make some NBE programs dangerous?
El
(no login)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 7:24 PM
That's a possibility, yes. You have to do your research and weight the decision for yourself. It's a risk some either don't believe in or are willing to take.
Sunflower
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:20 PM
hmmmmm......i thought it was just the synthetic hormones that caused cancer....something to think about.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:22 PM
Most of these things are supposed to be beneficial as they block estrogen receptors. I think it's established that nothing you take will cause a new tumour to arise but if you have an existing tumour and you raise your estrogen you'll be feeding it.
Molly
(Login MollyH)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 16 2008, 8:48 PM
As has been mentioned here before, countries with the highest intake of phytoestrogens in their daily diet actually have the LOWEST rates of breast cancer.
Izumi
(no login)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 17 2008, 4:05 AM
I've read that SOME cancers are estrogen-dependent, but not all of them. I have no scientific expertise, but here's how I've chosen to look at it. If you have an estrogen-dependent cancer, then excess phytoestrogens would probably make it grow; but if you don't have that type of cancer then it probably wouldn't have ill effect. I feel like the reality must be more complex than "estrogen causes cancer." I've also read that a lot of synthetic chemicals in our food and environment have estrogen-like effects on our bodies. Those are probably much more dangerous than herbs.
mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur)
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 18 2008, 10:40 PM
short answer, yes. long answer, if you have too much estrogen, way more than your body is supposed to make, then it can increase chances of getting mainly female related cancers [breast, ovarian, uterus, etc.]
typically phytoestrogens dont increase your estrogen higher than you're supposed to have, some women just have lower levels of estrogen and the herbs can increase that to a normal level or maybe a bit higher to encourage breast growth. HOWEVER, it is still possible that the herbs can increase them to abnormally high levels. you just have to be vigilant.
and like what was stated before, if you have any tumors or come susceptibility/sensitivity to estrogen it is more likely to cause cancer. you should make sure you are in good health before starting NBE.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 18 2008, 10:51 PM
I've done more reading on this today, mainly with reference to increased progesterone but it's the same for both. The answer seems to be that if you elevate the level of one or other of the sex hormones (not both) you risk cancer (I think it's estrogen for the uterus and progesterone to the breast) but if you look at the doses they refer to they're massive. Even if you bought HRT and ate the whole pack daily you'd barely get to the doses they're talking about. Also, it's a small increase in the longterm risk which increases with the treatment duration and then reduces back to normal after you stop. Most of them seem to think 5+ years or sometimes 10+ years carry a significant risk (and then it's like a 2% increase) and I don't think any of us will bother to do it for that long! Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your background) the risks are much higher if you have positive family history compared to someone with no family history who takes hormones. Don't forget the articles telling you these things cause cancer are mainly based on birth control and HRT which are a lot stronger and yet loads of us are on the pill.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Doesn't Increasing Estrogen cause cancer?
October 19 2008, 4:31 PM
Hi all,
Great discussion and good posts. I just wanted to add my .02 cents (in waxingmoon speak about $1.95 worth of words... lol)
It is estrogen increased without supported progesterone that was proven to cause cancer. Thus giving women estrogen only pills caused a serious rise in uterine cancer. They no longer will proscribe estrogen only pills unless the woman has had a hysterectomy.
As far as phytoestrogens, the effect on total estrogen levels in our bodies is dose and potency dependent.
1. If you take small amounts of a phytoestrogen whatever its potency, you will add to your body's total estrogen amount because the phytoestrogen molecules take up vacant estrogen receptor sites. The higher the potency of the phytoestrogen, the higher the rise of total body estrogen.
2. If you take large amounts of a phytoestrogen that has a low potency (like crushed flax seed) you will decrease your body's total estrogen. The phytoestrogen molecules will take up sites normally occupied by the body's own more potent estrogen, thus there is less total body estrogen.
3. If you take large amounts of a phytoestrogen that has a higher potency than the body's natural estrogen (like PM) you will increase your body's total estrogen. The phytoestrogen molecules will take up the sites normally occupied by the body's less potent estrogen and thus there will be a rise in total body estrogen.
4. If you mix phytoestrogens that have high and low potency, the lower potency phytoestrogens will occupy some sites and the higher dosage phytoestrogens will occupy some sites, which will average the two potencies. This is why it is advised not to use PM or BO with other phytoestrogens. It lowers the total effect.
So anyway, my $1.95 is done...
waxingmoon