01-03-2016, 15:44
BE increasing uterine cancer?
December 22 2006 at 1:54 PM snowfalling (Login snowdropsfalling)
Does anyone know if that's true? I've been reading that BC how that increases some temporary volume by increasing estrogen but it also contains progesterone to counteract that and to prevent uterine cancer. And how fennel which contains that increase breast tissue in rats, but also in their uterine.
snowfalling
(Login snowdropsfalling)
BO
December 22 2006, 1:59 PM
I also found this on BO:
Bovine Ovary Extract - There are no published studies of the safety or effectiveness of bovine ovary extract in humans. Unlike the other herbs discussed here, websites selling the product say that bovine ovary extract stimulates the pituitary gland resulting in an increase in prolactin and growth hormone levels.
If this is true, there are potential risks. Prolactin is a hormone that rises almost ten-fold during pregnancy to stimulate breast development and milk formation. High levels of prolactin can cause infertility, irregular menstruation, reduced libido, and possibly increase the risk of stroke.
Growth hormone is needed to stimulate growth in children. High levels of growth hormone in adults who don't need it can cause the development of diabetes, abnormal growth of bones and internal organs such as the heart, kidneys, and liver, high blood pressure, and atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries).
MyJourney
(Login Myjourney)
NBE=Cancer?
March 21 2007 at 2:51 PM
I am not sure I would jump to that conclusion. A site I quoted before (Annieappleseedproject) seems to be research for those with cancer or with a history of cancer in their families, and want to avoid cancer causing things.
We know that in studies the animals are given very high doses of substances...and the substances may not cause cancer in lower doses in normal individuals...
I think most of us here are paying attention to our bodies signals...and using herbs etc. in a manner that is responsible.
Consider this article:
"PHYTOESTROGENS - FRIENDS OR FOES?
CAN PLANT HORMONES HELP WOMEN IN MENOPAUSE? DO THEY AFFECT BREAST CANCER?
~2002, Susun S. Weed
Phytoestrogens are weak hormones found in many plants. They are currently being promoted, sometimes in highly refined forms, for relief of the symptoms of menopause. Are they safe~ Can they promote breast cancer~
We know that increased exposure to hormones - such as those used in the cattle industry, those given to women during menopause, those taken by women engaged in hi-tech pregnancy efforts, and even those naturally produced by our own bodies - increases our risk of being diagnosed with cancer, especially breast cancer. And many believe that hormone-like chemicals - xenoestrogens - increasingly found in our food and water, contribute to cancer as well. Doesn't that imply that phytoestrogens will increase cancer risk too~
Virtually everything we eat - grains, beans, nuts, seeds, seed oils, berries, fruits, vegetables, and roots - contains phytoestrogens. Scientists measuring the amount of phytoestrogen break-down by-products in the urine of healthy women found that those with the least were four times more likely to be diagnosed with breast cancer than with the most. Phytoestrogens actually appear to protect tissues from the cancer-causing effects of xenoestrogens and other hormonal pollutants.
This seems simple - eat more phytoestrogens, be healthier - and it is, so long as we restrict ourselves to eating plants. But when the difference between food and medicine is disregarded, when phytoestrogens are isolated and concentrated, sold to us in pills and candy bars, then the equation changes: phytoestrogens become dangerous hormones, quite capable of promoting cancer."
Another excerpt:
".......................Phytoestrogenic foods are the basis for a healthy diet and a long life. The first food listed is the highest in phytoestrogens. The best diet contains not just one but many choices from each list:
~ Whole grains (rye, oats, barley, millet, rice, wheat, corn)
~ Edible seeds (buckwheat, sesame, sunflower, pumpkin, amaranth, quinoa)
~ Beans (yellow split peas, black turtle beans, baby limas, Anasazi beans, red kidney beans, red lentils, soy beans)
~ Leafy greens and seaweed (parsley, nettle, kelp, cabbage, broccoli, kale, collards, lamb's quarter)
~ Fruits (olives, cherries, grapes, apples, pears, peaches, plums, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, salmon berries, apricots, crab apples, quinces, rosehips, blueberries)
~ Olive oil and seed oils
~ Garlic, onions and their relatives leeks, chives, scallions, ramps, shallot
The exceptions to the rule that plants don't contain human hormones:
~ French beans, rice, apple seeds, licorice, and pomegranate seeds contain the weak estrogen estrone.
Phytoestrogenic food-like herbs are generally considered longevity tonics. For optimum effect, use only one from the list below and to stick with it for at least three months:
~ Citrus peel, dandelion leaves and/or roots, fenugreek seeds, flax seeds, green tea, hops, red clover, red wine.
Phytoestrogenic herbs are usually too powerful for long-term use. From the list below (which is in alphabetical order), it is safest to use only one herb at a time, and use it only when needed, although that may mean daily use for several months. More information about these herbs, including specific dosages and cautions, is in New Menopausal Years the Wise Woman Way.
~ Agave root, black cohosh root, black currant, black haw, chasteberries, cramp bark, dong quai root, devil's club root, false unicorn root, ginseng root, groundsel herb, licorice, liferoot herb, motherwort herb, peony root, raspberry leaves, rose family plants (most parts), sage leaves, sarsaparilla root, saw palmetto berries, wild yam root, yarrow blossoms.
4. Most of the warnings about phytoestrogenic herbs center on their proven ability to thicken the uterine wall in animals who have had their ovaries removed. This could encourage cancer, just as taking ERT encourages cancer of the uterus by stimulating cell growth. Women without ovaries are probably safe eating phytoestrogenic foods, but may want to use phytoestrogenic herbs - especially ginseng, dong quai, licorice, red clover, and wild yam - in small amounts and only for short periods.
Phytoestrogens can be our friends. In a world that seems increasingly hostile and threatening, green allies offer us ways to stay safe and healthy, so long as we use them with wisdom and honor.................................."
Here is a link to the whole article:
http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Phytoestrogens.htm
My concern in my original post was for young girls who come to this forum wanting boobs and not wanting to wait until they are through puberty to see if they need "help" If they already have hormonal issues..I would be concerned that messing with nature at that point with STRONG herbals could have a negative longe term effect. My (not medical or in any way totally knowledgable) would be to guide these girls to boobie friendly foods, and mild herbals that are nourishing instead of tonic.
deborah
(Login forme2know)
PM not for those under 20 years old...
March 22 2007, 3:41 AM
PM shouldn't be used buy girls that have not finished their natural growth ---even the makers of st herb state this in there product literature...
Deborah
Anonymous
(no login)
Re: NBE=Cancer? for Anonymous
March 22 2007, 12:46 PM
Your post made me worry that herbs can cause cancer.Does anyone know the doses that are used on mice for experiments?
I found this online:
http://www.sensiblehealth.com/estrogen.html
The controversy about plant estrogens or phytoestrogens
There seems to be a common misconception in the natural health community that women with high estrogen levels should take phytoestrogen (plant estrogen) because phytoestrogens are "protective estrogens" which reduce estrogenic activity. It is believed that phytoestrogens compete with endogenous estrogens for estrogen receptors. When the estrogen receptors are occupied by phytoestrogens, cell divisions are reduced because phytoestrogens are "weak estrogens". This theory made sense to me until my own experience showed otherwise. With my endometriosis, my pain level was a measurement for my condition. When I tried Don Quei, Licorice, Ginseng and Royal Jelly, I did feel better initially for a few weeks because they helped my blood circulation. As I continued to take these remedies, my pain would come back with a vengeance, more severe than before. I realized that weak estrogens could add up significantly if given enough time. I believe that many women are misled by initial feelings of wellness without realizing that longer periods of usage actually makes the problem worse. Many other endometriosis sufferers that I know also have had similar experiences with phytoestrogen. After my personal experience, my belief is that weak plant estrogens may replace our own more potent estrogens for receptor sites, but our own estrogens still have to go somewhere if the liver is incapable of eliminating them.
In Townsend Letters for Doctors and Patients (January, 1997 issue), Ray Peat, a renowned biologist in the U.S., stated that "the concept of a protective estrogen is very similar to the idea of protective mutagens or protective carcinogens". He mentioned that "Alexander Lipshuts demonstrated that a continuous, weak estrogenic stimulus was immensely effective in producing first fibromas, then cancer, in one organ after another, and the effect was not limited to the reproductive system". For example, the brain and liver, which also have estrogen receptors, may grow tumours too.
Interestingly, one of the three common estrogens, Estriol, has similar properties. Being a less potent cell stimulant, Estriol was once classified as an estrogen antagonist. In the book Estrogens in the Environment [see Reference 1 at the end of this section], it was mentioned "because it failed to induce breast tumors in susceptible rodent strains and appeared to block such induction by Estradiol and Estrone, it was considered to be a safe estrogen". However, later studies showed that Estriol was safe only if it was administered as a single injection. A continuous administration of Estriol showed the same responses from that induced by Estradiol which is the most potent estrogen. Continuous administration of Estriol was also shown to induce breast tumors in rodents.
Estriol has been suggested as having a protective role in breast cancer based on the observation that oriental women who have a high [Estriol/(Estradiol + Estrone)] ratio in their blood also have a low incidence of breast cancer [see Reference 1 at the end of this section]. Soya bean (contains phytoestrogen) has also been suggested as being protective in breast cancer because Japanese women who consume much more soya bean than Western women have lower incidence of breast cancer. My observation is that in the past oriental women took much less medical drugs including painkillers compared to women in Western societies. However oriental breast cancer incidence has gone up significantly in recent years even though soya bean products are still consumed there much more than in Western societies. I believe this trend may in part be due to increased consumption of medications. The American Liver Foundation stated that the amount of medicine consumed has increased greatly with resulting dangers to the liver. The elevated estrogen level caused by a weak liver may not be detected in blood tests because blood estrogen levels do not necessarily reflect estrogen levels in tissues. Estrogen levels in the tissues cannot be measured.
Estrogens bind to sodium which retains water. That is why many women who take estrogen therapy may find significant weight gain. The fact that estrogen therapy weakens both liver and kidneys and therefore slows down the metabolism may also aggravate weight problems.
http://wholemothermuslima.blogspot.com/2004/10/birth-control-and-muslima-part-ii.html
Hormone Based Contraceptives
The Pill: A Short History
When most of us think of birth control the first thing that comes to mind is the birth control pill. Though birth control pills have only been around for the last 40 years, hormone based contraceptives have a very long history among womankind. 4000 years ago Egyptians ground up pomegranate seeds and mixed them with wax to form what may well have been the first birth control pill. We now know that pomegrante seeds contain a natural estrogen, so it is likely that this concoction prevented ovulation! There is also recorded evidence that the ancient Greeks used a pomegranate seed based birth control method. It is not a far stretch to assume that Muslims too have been using this hormone based contraceptive for centuries as the famous Muslim scientist Ibn Sina (Avicenna 980-1037) prescribed pomegranate as a postcoital contraceptive.
Myjourney
(Login Myjourney)
Thanks, Deborah...
March 22 2007, 2:35 PM
That is great info...I think maybe other products should discuss it too. PM is a strong herb, and so are some others. PM arguably too strong.
December 22 2006 at 1:54 PM snowfalling (Login snowdropsfalling)
Does anyone know if that's true? I've been reading that BC how that increases some temporary volume by increasing estrogen but it also contains progesterone to counteract that and to prevent uterine cancer. And how fennel which contains that increase breast tissue in rats, but also in their uterine.
snowfalling
(Login snowdropsfalling)
BO
December 22 2006, 1:59 PM
I also found this on BO:
Bovine Ovary Extract - There are no published studies of the safety or effectiveness of bovine ovary extract in humans. Unlike the other herbs discussed here, websites selling the product say that bovine ovary extract stimulates the pituitary gland resulting in an increase in prolactin and growth hormone levels.
If this is true, there are potential risks. Prolactin is a hormone that rises almost ten-fold during pregnancy to stimulate breast development and milk formation. High levels of prolactin can cause infertility, irregular menstruation, reduced libido, and possibly increase the risk of stroke.
Growth hormone is needed to stimulate growth in children. High levels of growth hormone in adults who don't need it can cause the development of diabetes, abnormal growth of bones and internal organs such as the heart, kidneys, and liver, high blood pressure, and atherosclerosis (hardening of the arteries).
MyJourney
(Login Myjourney)
NBE=Cancer?
March 21 2007 at 2:51 PM
I am not sure I would jump to that conclusion. A site I quoted before (Annieappleseedproject) seems to be research for those with cancer or with a history of cancer in their families, and want to avoid cancer causing things.
We know that in studies the animals are given very high doses of substances...and the substances may not cause cancer in lower doses in normal individuals...
I think most of us here are paying attention to our bodies signals...and using herbs etc. in a manner that is responsible.
Consider this article:
"PHYTOESTROGENS - FRIENDS OR FOES?
CAN PLANT HORMONES HELP WOMEN IN MENOPAUSE? DO THEY AFFECT BREAST CANCER?
~2002, Susun S. Weed
Phytoestrogens are weak hormones found in many plants. They are currently being promoted, sometimes in highly refined forms, for relief of the symptoms of menopause. Are they safe~ Can they promote breast cancer~
We know that increased exposure to hormones - such as those used in the cattle industry, those given to women during menopause, those taken by women engaged in hi-tech pregnancy efforts, and even those naturally produced by our own bodies - increases our risk of being diagnosed with cancer, especially breast cancer. And many believe that hormone-like chemicals - xenoestrogens - increasingly found in our food and water, contribute to cancer as well. Doesn't that imply that phytoestrogens will increase cancer risk too~
Virtually everything we eat - grains, beans, nuts, seeds, seed oils, berries, fruits, vegetables, and roots - contains phytoestrogens. Scientists measuring the amount of phytoestrogen break-down by-products in the urine of healthy women found that those with the least were four times more likely to be diagnosed with breast cancer than with the most. Phytoestrogens actually appear to protect tissues from the cancer-causing effects of xenoestrogens and other hormonal pollutants.
This seems simple - eat more phytoestrogens, be healthier - and it is, so long as we restrict ourselves to eating plants. But when the difference between food and medicine is disregarded, when phytoestrogens are isolated and concentrated, sold to us in pills and candy bars, then the equation changes: phytoestrogens become dangerous hormones, quite capable of promoting cancer."
Another excerpt:
".......................Phytoestrogenic foods are the basis for a healthy diet and a long life. The first food listed is the highest in phytoestrogens. The best diet contains not just one but many choices from each list:
~ Whole grains (rye, oats, barley, millet, rice, wheat, corn)
~ Edible seeds (buckwheat, sesame, sunflower, pumpkin, amaranth, quinoa)
~ Beans (yellow split peas, black turtle beans, baby limas, Anasazi beans, red kidney beans, red lentils, soy beans)
~ Leafy greens and seaweed (parsley, nettle, kelp, cabbage, broccoli, kale, collards, lamb's quarter)
~ Fruits (olives, cherries, grapes, apples, pears, peaches, plums, strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, salmon berries, apricots, crab apples, quinces, rosehips, blueberries)
~ Olive oil and seed oils
~ Garlic, onions and their relatives leeks, chives, scallions, ramps, shallot
The exceptions to the rule that plants don't contain human hormones:
~ French beans, rice, apple seeds, licorice, and pomegranate seeds contain the weak estrogen estrone.
Phytoestrogenic food-like herbs are generally considered longevity tonics. For optimum effect, use only one from the list below and to stick with it for at least three months:
~ Citrus peel, dandelion leaves and/or roots, fenugreek seeds, flax seeds, green tea, hops, red clover, red wine.
Phytoestrogenic herbs are usually too powerful for long-term use. From the list below (which is in alphabetical order), it is safest to use only one herb at a time, and use it only when needed, although that may mean daily use for several months. More information about these herbs, including specific dosages and cautions, is in New Menopausal Years the Wise Woman Way.
~ Agave root, black cohosh root, black currant, black haw, chasteberries, cramp bark, dong quai root, devil's club root, false unicorn root, ginseng root, groundsel herb, licorice, liferoot herb, motherwort herb, peony root, raspberry leaves, rose family plants (most parts), sage leaves, sarsaparilla root, saw palmetto berries, wild yam root, yarrow blossoms.
4. Most of the warnings about phytoestrogenic herbs center on their proven ability to thicken the uterine wall in animals who have had their ovaries removed. This could encourage cancer, just as taking ERT encourages cancer of the uterus by stimulating cell growth. Women without ovaries are probably safe eating phytoestrogenic foods, but may want to use phytoestrogenic herbs - especially ginseng, dong quai, licorice, red clover, and wild yam - in small amounts and only for short periods.
Phytoestrogens can be our friends. In a world that seems increasingly hostile and threatening, green allies offer us ways to stay safe and healthy, so long as we use them with wisdom and honor.................................."
Here is a link to the whole article:
http://www.susunweed.com/Article_Phytoestrogens.htm
My concern in my original post was for young girls who come to this forum wanting boobs and not wanting to wait until they are through puberty to see if they need "help" If they already have hormonal issues..I would be concerned that messing with nature at that point with STRONG herbals could have a negative longe term effect. My (not medical or in any way totally knowledgable) would be to guide these girls to boobie friendly foods, and mild herbals that are nourishing instead of tonic.
deborah
(Login forme2know)
PM not for those under 20 years old...
March 22 2007, 3:41 AM
PM shouldn't be used buy girls that have not finished their natural growth ---even the makers of st herb state this in there product literature...
Deborah
Anonymous
(no login)
Re: NBE=Cancer? for Anonymous
March 22 2007, 12:46 PM
Your post made me worry that herbs can cause cancer.Does anyone know the doses that are used on mice for experiments?
I found this online:
http://www.sensiblehealth.com/estrogen.html
The controversy about plant estrogens or phytoestrogens
There seems to be a common misconception in the natural health community that women with high estrogen levels should take phytoestrogen (plant estrogen) because phytoestrogens are "protective estrogens" which reduce estrogenic activity. It is believed that phytoestrogens compete with endogenous estrogens for estrogen receptors. When the estrogen receptors are occupied by phytoestrogens, cell divisions are reduced because phytoestrogens are "weak estrogens". This theory made sense to me until my own experience showed otherwise. With my endometriosis, my pain level was a measurement for my condition. When I tried Don Quei, Licorice, Ginseng and Royal Jelly, I did feel better initially for a few weeks because they helped my blood circulation. As I continued to take these remedies, my pain would come back with a vengeance, more severe than before. I realized that weak estrogens could add up significantly if given enough time. I believe that many women are misled by initial feelings of wellness without realizing that longer periods of usage actually makes the problem worse. Many other endometriosis sufferers that I know also have had similar experiences with phytoestrogen. After my personal experience, my belief is that weak plant estrogens may replace our own more potent estrogens for receptor sites, but our own estrogens still have to go somewhere if the liver is incapable of eliminating them.
In Townsend Letters for Doctors and Patients (January, 1997 issue), Ray Peat, a renowned biologist in the U.S., stated that "the concept of a protective estrogen is very similar to the idea of protective mutagens or protective carcinogens". He mentioned that "Alexander Lipshuts demonstrated that a continuous, weak estrogenic stimulus was immensely effective in producing first fibromas, then cancer, in one organ after another, and the effect was not limited to the reproductive system". For example, the brain and liver, which also have estrogen receptors, may grow tumours too.
Interestingly, one of the three common estrogens, Estriol, has similar properties. Being a less potent cell stimulant, Estriol was once classified as an estrogen antagonist. In the book Estrogens in the Environment [see Reference 1 at the end of this section], it was mentioned "because it failed to induce breast tumors in susceptible rodent strains and appeared to block such induction by Estradiol and Estrone, it was considered to be a safe estrogen". However, later studies showed that Estriol was safe only if it was administered as a single injection. A continuous administration of Estriol showed the same responses from that induced by Estradiol which is the most potent estrogen. Continuous administration of Estriol was also shown to induce breast tumors in rodents.
Estriol has been suggested as having a protective role in breast cancer based on the observation that oriental women who have a high [Estriol/(Estradiol + Estrone)] ratio in their blood also have a low incidence of breast cancer [see Reference 1 at the end of this section]. Soya bean (contains phytoestrogen) has also been suggested as being protective in breast cancer because Japanese women who consume much more soya bean than Western women have lower incidence of breast cancer. My observation is that in the past oriental women took much less medical drugs including painkillers compared to women in Western societies. However oriental breast cancer incidence has gone up significantly in recent years even though soya bean products are still consumed there much more than in Western societies. I believe this trend may in part be due to increased consumption of medications. The American Liver Foundation stated that the amount of medicine consumed has increased greatly with resulting dangers to the liver. The elevated estrogen level caused by a weak liver may not be detected in blood tests because blood estrogen levels do not necessarily reflect estrogen levels in tissues. Estrogen levels in the tissues cannot be measured.
Estrogens bind to sodium which retains water. That is why many women who take estrogen therapy may find significant weight gain. The fact that estrogen therapy weakens both liver and kidneys and therefore slows down the metabolism may also aggravate weight problems.
http://wholemothermuslima.blogspot.com/2004/10/birth-control-and-muslima-part-ii.html
Hormone Based Contraceptives
The Pill: A Short History
When most of us think of birth control the first thing that comes to mind is the birth control pill. Though birth control pills have only been around for the last 40 years, hormone based contraceptives have a very long history among womankind. 4000 years ago Egyptians ground up pomegranate seeds and mixed them with wax to form what may well have been the first birth control pill. We now know that pomegrante seeds contain a natural estrogen, so it is likely that this concoction prevented ovulation! There is also recorded evidence that the ancient Greeks used a pomegranate seed based birth control method. It is not a far stretch to assume that Muslims too have been using this hormone based contraceptive for centuries as the famous Muslim scientist Ibn Sina (Avicenna 980-1037) prescribed pomegranate as a postcoital contraceptive.
Myjourney
(Login Myjourney)
Thanks, Deborah...
March 22 2007, 2:35 PM
That is great info...I think maybe other products should discuss it too. PM is a strong herb, and so are some others. PM arguably too strong.