24-02-2016, 15:43
Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 18 2007 at 8:50 PM
Jennelle (Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS
Question: Since some people here say that dowsing can be demonstrated to work, why hasn't anyone claimed the million dollar prize which is on offer for anyone who is able to demonstrate that it works?
Sally Anne
(Login sally.anne)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 9:30 AM
Well there have been many claimants for the prize so far, if not anyone from this forum. James Randi has tested more than 100 dowsers over the years (I don't know the exact number). He has said that only 2 of them tried to cheat, which suggests that dowsers are basically honest people.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 12:13 PM
But if I'm not mistaking, it's impossible to prove anyhing anyway. It's just like in science - gravity for example is only a theoy, not a confirmed fact, because only one experiment in which an apple wouldn't fall down but up would annul the whole theory. And you can throw the apple as many times as you want, you'll never prove that in the next experiment it won't fly up.
Sally Anne
(Login sally.anne)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 4:04 PM
Ah, but the point of the million dollar challenge is not to prove anything for a certainty. If for example someone claimed that dowsing worked 90% of the time, it would be easy to construct a test to see if a 90% success rate was achieved. In other words, it's all relevant to what point the dowser is trying to establish. I think any results that were clearly unlikely to be obtained through chance would be enough.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 4:48 PM
True, good point. It would be pertty easy to demonstrate it then.
Woolly Sheep
(no login)
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 5:13 PM
A scientific 'theory' IS considered a fact. 'Theory' does not mean what it means in everyday language when we're talking science.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 8:20 PM
It's considered a fact in practice, but not in theory. :p
Solitaire
(Login solitairian)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 20 2007, 10:07 AM
So where do dowsers consider that they get their powers from? Do they believe they were born with these abilities or do they acquire them during their lifetime?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 20 2007, 5:23 PM
Dowsing is a long standing practice for finding water. For most people you say the word dowsing and they conjure up the image of a person with a forked stick using it to find water. It is quite accurate and a method still employed by some today. Some people are better than others. Scientifically it makes sense. Since besides air, water is the most necessary ingredient for life, it would stand to reason those creatures that could find water would survive better. Surviving better would mean you could have more offspring and pass on this trait.
This ability seem to be genetic, with most people having an active or latent form of it. Most people who attempt to learn how to dowse can do it. Some people have better skills than others.
There are other 'uncanny' skills that humans possess. One such is the ability to tell when we are being stared at. This seems to crop up in less of the population - but again, there is some logic behind it. A predator will stare at its prey before attacking it. Those creatures that had some ability to sense this would be on the alert and be less likely to be victims.... have more offspring... pass on the trait...
Now, proving these things is a rather difficult proposition. Many factors effect accuracy. For example, the way the test is set up and the persons chosen for the experiment. In other words, if you set about panning for gold in your bathtub you are unlikely to get results (barring a lost tooth or earing... lol) However, you have not proven that a person cannot find gold. Also, what is the acceptable percentage of accuracy. If I can accurately guess a coin toss 65% of the time that is statistically significant - but if the test calls for 90% accuracy then I don't 'win'.
Our understanding of the world, humankind and the forces at play is still in many ways in its infancy. We know just enough to know how much we don't know.
waxingmoon
September 18 2007 at 8:50 PM
Jennelle (Login Jenneelle)
EVE MEMBERS
Question: Since some people here say that dowsing can be demonstrated to work, why hasn't anyone claimed the million dollar prize which is on offer for anyone who is able to demonstrate that it works?
Sally Anne
(Login sally.anne)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 9:30 AM
Well there have been many claimants for the prize so far, if not anyone from this forum. James Randi has tested more than 100 dowsers over the years (I don't know the exact number). He has said that only 2 of them tried to cheat, which suggests that dowsers are basically honest people.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 12:13 PM
But if I'm not mistaking, it's impossible to prove anyhing anyway. It's just like in science - gravity for example is only a theoy, not a confirmed fact, because only one experiment in which an apple wouldn't fall down but up would annul the whole theory. And you can throw the apple as many times as you want, you'll never prove that in the next experiment it won't fly up.
Sally Anne
(Login sally.anne)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 4:04 PM
Ah, but the point of the million dollar challenge is not to prove anything for a certainty. If for example someone claimed that dowsing worked 90% of the time, it would be easy to construct a test to see if a 90% success rate was achieved. In other words, it's all relevant to what point the dowser is trying to establish. I think any results that were clearly unlikely to be obtained through chance would be enough.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 4:48 PM
True, good point. It would be pertty easy to demonstrate it then.
Woolly Sheep
(no login)
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 5:13 PM
A scientific 'theory' IS considered a fact. 'Theory' does not mean what it means in everyday language when we're talking science.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 19 2007, 8:20 PM
It's considered a fact in practice, but not in theory. :p
Solitaire
(Login solitairian)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 20 2007, 10:07 AM
So where do dowsers consider that they get their powers from? Do they believe they were born with these abilities or do they acquire them during their lifetime?
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Does anyone want the million dollars?
September 20 2007, 5:23 PM
Dowsing is a long standing practice for finding water. For most people you say the word dowsing and they conjure up the image of a person with a forked stick using it to find water. It is quite accurate and a method still employed by some today. Some people are better than others. Scientifically it makes sense. Since besides air, water is the most necessary ingredient for life, it would stand to reason those creatures that could find water would survive better. Surviving better would mean you could have more offspring and pass on this trait.
This ability seem to be genetic, with most people having an active or latent form of it. Most people who attempt to learn how to dowse can do it. Some people have better skills than others.
There are other 'uncanny' skills that humans possess. One such is the ability to tell when we are being stared at. This seems to crop up in less of the population - but again, there is some logic behind it. A predator will stare at its prey before attacking it. Those creatures that had some ability to sense this would be on the alert and be less likely to be victims.... have more offspring... pass on the trait...
Now, proving these things is a rather difficult proposition. Many factors effect accuracy. For example, the way the test is set up and the persons chosen for the experiment. In other words, if you set about panning for gold in your bathtub you are unlikely to get results (barring a lost tooth or earing... lol) However, you have not proven that a person cannot find gold. Also, what is the acceptable percentage of accuracy. If I can accurately guess a coin toss 65% of the time that is statistically significant - but if the test calls for 90% accuracy then I don't 'win'.
Our understanding of the world, humankind and the forces at play is still in many ways in its infancy. We know just enough to know how much we don't know.
waxingmoon