[Lotus]

Hi Lotus,

I saw the other thread written by Peggy which state that soy / isoflavone is bad and must not be taken. What do you think about it? do we need to avoid a cream that contains soy/isoflavone as well?

Hi Dfleurs, Peggy was quoting an article on the dangers of soy, which brought to light the differences between "fermented soy & non fermented soy". If currently take soy and have no allergies to soy Dr. Ray Peat advices to continue talking it. It's been and most likely will continue to be contested subject, I'll just give a overview.........this is from Dr. Mercola
(Btw, have you seen how healthy Peggy is?).

Nonfermented soy products contain phytic acid, which contains anti-nutritive properties. Phytic acid binds with certain nutrients, including iron, to inhibit their absorption. This is a direct, physical effect that takes place in the digestive system. Their ability to bind is limited by the milligrams of phytic acid present.


fermented soy stops the effect of phytic acid and increases the availability of isoflavones. The fermentation also creates the probiotics--the "good" bacteria the body is absolutely dependent on, such as lactobacilli--that increase the quantity, availability, digestibility and assimilation of nutrients in the body.

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But how soy effects the thyroid should be discussed more, for instance:

Non-fermented soy proteins, although usually promoted as beneficial to the body, have negative effects. They contain goitrogens, a compound that slows down the function of thyroid in the body leading to thyroid cancer.
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Estrogen treatment is a common cause of high triglycerides, and deficiencies of magnesium, copper, and protein can contribute to that abnormality. Which is eerily similar to soy's behavior.


Not everyone metabolizes soy the same way: here's what I mean, Clelia (scientist) and I we're talking about this very same thing.
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yep, maybe in men the estrogenic activity of soy is more effective than in women, but also it depends on individual genetics. You'll see in the link below, a very good article that summarize a lot of papers about phytoestrogens. After reading that, you can just say: yes, it could wbe helpful as it could be harmful... and maybe it's wise stay in the middle, not exceed:
http://foodforbreastcancer.com/foods/genistein-and-daidzein

an extract of the article: (here it is something in english about equol and its conversion

Equol has been shown to have the strongest binding affinities and estrogenic activities (especially for ERβ) among the daidzin metabolites and has been hypothesized to be largely responsible for the estrogen-like activities of soy and its isoflavones. However, there is a great deal of variation among individuals in the metabolism of genistin and daidzin, which appears to be dependent partly on environmental factors, including other components of the diet, and partly on genetic factors.

Only 25% to 35% of the U.S. Caucasian population is capable of converting daidzein to equol, whereas people in high soy consumption areas of Asia have rates closer to 40% to 60%. There is some evidence that Hispanic or Latino women are also more likely to be equol producers. Approximately 80% to 90% of people harbor the bacteria required to produce ODMA. The frequency of equol producers in one study of vegetarians was found to be 59%, similar to the reported frequency in Japanese adults consuming soy, and much higher than for nonvegetarian adults (25%). One Japanese study found that consumption of dairy products was significantly higher in those who did not excrete equol than in those who did.



other papers that i looked at today:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25789108

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25673549

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25338271

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25302172

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25263312

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25236805

isoflavones in the brain: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25232349

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22510793

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25592466

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24504368

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24531783

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24053483