[Ginie]

As far as I understand we can use either progesterone cream or herbs which increase progesteron. Unfortunately there're not many herbs which do that Vitex is the one, then there's wild yam though it's not clear if it helps. Also you should take vitamin E in luteal phase (that is something my doctor told me, it stimulates body to produce progesterone). You can check out pages like this one http://www.epinions.com/kifm-review-497C-DC54319-38EBD8D5-prod2

In a japanese program she was taking PM until 2 days before ovulation and after O - mix of herbs which contained wild yam (waiduruyamu), dong quai and some other herbs because she couldn't buy progesterone cream in Japan (I think she was also using a lotion which contained wild yam but I'm not sure now).

I had most of my growth when I was using progesterone cream. It sort of confirms the theories which those two M.D. published (I gave the links before, just check out their articles).

[Ginie]

Time to report.

I've been on PM for one month and now my boobs look bigger than I've ever seen them. I have this dilema now: where did the increase (I don't call it permanent growth yet) come from? I shall explain.

Here's what could influence this change.
1. PM pills, cream, and other new supplements in my new program.
2. I started noogling laying down. Before I was sitting up. I read in NB forum that few girls have noticed it gives better swelling.

How would I ever be able to find out where ther increase came from?

In the beginning I was thinking to drop NB and do PM pure experiment but I didn't dare, only took few days off of NB and started again. I do halv an hour almost each day (can't have both domes on at the same time, so, I take one a the time, so, it's really time consuming).

In the middle of the cycle I noticed some water retention, but as soon as I stopped taking pills in luteal phase it all went away. I also noticed my skin was just looking great when on PM pills. I didn't feel any growing pains untill few days before period.

My boobs sit far apart of each other and before I thought I would never manage to get some meat on in the center of my chest. After this month I see that this bone&skin area got less! It's not full cleavage yet but I think I can get there! :-)

C-cup was overflowing just before the period! And right after noogling I was.. well. BIG! Swelling usually goes down after few hours. After period it was a little less but the difference was only visible in my measuring bra (C-cup).

How do I know if it is PM or NB working??

[soonenough]

Ginnie, it has to be both PM and NB, and the synergy that feeds from both. The PM provides the drive for internal, and the NB is the external/mechanical manipulation. That's how I see it and I have no means of explaining the mechanism behind how both works, but all I know is it worked for me when I used both.

I feel the same way you do about noogling; it's something I dare not drop considering I'm seeing growth right now with what I'm combining it with. I started PM 2/16/11 with noogling with my core NB: CFB,massage,and breast food (fengshui and tigerlily's programs). I stopped PM 4/9/11. On 4/11/11, started ramping up slowly on Greenbushkit#2, and on 4/20/11, I started full blast on the herb program (based on Pammy's program on BEBoard). No growth at all from the time I stopped PM on 4/9, or rather was fluctuating + or - 0.5", to today 5/2/11. All this time, I stayed with my core NB program + noogling. Over the weekend, I grew to 35.5".

So my conclusion, noogling works, but like you, I can't quantify which one is due to noogling or to the PM, or herbs, or whatever combination you use it with. I'm very, very happy though with the increase, and will continue to use noogling in my NBE "arsenal".

I'm celebrating with you over your growth!! Happy, happy dance here!

[luisa]

Ginie, congratulations on your progress! I am amazed how much you have grown during the first month as from reading the posts on this forum it looks like almost everybody on PM sees no significant changes in the first month. It sounds like a combinations of different things including all the extra supplements from the Japanese girl's program you are taking help you to achieve better results than those who use PM on its own. Do you know if the PM you use is farmed or wild? I am going to start researching and adding the supplements from your program to my program slowly MSM and PC are what I am going to add next.

[Ginie]

Thank you, girls!! I feel, well.. satisfied with my progress so far. On BO it was very gradual, on this program it's like - BOOM - here are your new boobs! They appeared somewhat around ovulation. Now when I run it gets uncomfortable because they are bouncing so much. I stopped wearing a bra few months ago when I read that it inhibits the growth, now I think I will have to reconsider.

Yes, Luisa, MSM is just great! Your hair will start growing faster, I also think it is important for NBE. I'm thinking about starting using MSM lotion.

I was chatting with a friend of mine and she says it really could be the combination of everything I'm doing, just like Soonenough said. For example, noogling could help with what PM is doing but hyaluronic acid could help getting better results from noogling. Increasing estrogen in the follicular phase, well, that's PM, clearly, but placenta (I take pig placenta from Japan, you see, I'm REALLY trying to follow the Japanese program as close as possible) could work on increasing progesterone in the luteal phase becasue placenta produces progesterone during pregnancy. Placenta contains growth factors. And so on and so on. Maybe it is really a clever program.. We'll see. I sometimes glance at the pictures of that Japanese lucky girl it sets me in a good mood! I of course lost a little bit after period but still the difference is very noticable. She was having this fluctuations too but she was consistant with her program and that brought incredible results!

One thing which I miss from BO is that it made my period absolutely painless, with PM the pain is back, the first day of my period was really painful

Apart from this I haven't noticed any problem, BBT chart looked normal, I had ovulation, cycle was just 1 day longer.

For those who noogle I strongly recommend doing it when laying down. Just try and see if there's any difference. I got way better swelling this way! And drink more water! I drink the one which has a lot of Calcium in it.

I'm back on PM pills again. It says on the package that it is farmed but if I think about it - will we EVER know if they're telling us truth? I take St.Herb right now. The only thing I dislike is that it has other herbs (says "tropical herbs") in it, though really small amount. After St.Heb I will be trying Siriporn, just because I read that Pueraraprem, the one used in Siriporn, is a really high quality PM. Though again, will we ever know if it is the truth or not.. Siriporn use pure PM, nothing else in their pills. Their dosages are lower (St.Herb - 200mg a pill, Siriporn - 100mg) I actually already started using their soap, not sure if it does anything, I mean it only stays on skin for a minute, right? But I noticed one really great thing - my tiny sun spots (almost like freckles) fade away gradually on my chest area where I apply soap when I bathe. It has to be PM because I don't apply cream on entire chest! I like it!

[luisa]

I did not realize that MSM helps the hair to grow faster. Has it had this effect on you? My hair is extremely slow-growing though it has grown longer and improved since starting NBE. I can not wait to add MSM to my program now Would you mind me asking how many mg of MSM you take per day?

Perhaps your period pains will improve next month, once your body gets used to PM. I had a really painful period when I started taking birth control again and have read that this happens to many people during the first month of use. I am not sure but this could be similar with PM. My second period on bc was fine.

[Ginie]

Hi Luisa, I take 4000 - 6000 mg a day, I think it effects hair growth, yes. You can try biotin for hair growth.

[luisa]

Thanks, Ginie.

[soonenough]

Hi Ginnie,

May I ask what brand of progesterone cream do you use, and where do you purchase? And while I'm it, do you mind posting the site where you ordered the pig placenta from Japan? How many mg of pig placenta do you take daily? Lastly, what brand of hyaluronic acid do you take, and how many mg daily do you take?

Thanks so much. Just in case I decide to switch back to PM, I want to be ready with all the supplements that goes with the Japanese girl's routine.

[luisa]

I also could not find the pig placenta. I went ahead and ordered lamb placenta instead. It is full of amino acids. When I searched the word placenta on this forum I noticed that all the girls who had lamb placenta in their programs had growth so it sounds like placenta is a good supplement for NBE. Ginnie, do you think pig placenta is better?

@ soonenough: It does not seem to be easy to find the progesterone cream, at least where I am. I bought mine from Biovea as it was the only place selling it.