[uhuccup]

I got my hormone test results this morning and as expected everything was ok. Estrogen, Testosteron, Progesteron and LH was tested on the 27th day of my cycle (32 day cycle) and they are all at a normal range and are in perfect relation. So there's nothing to say against taking herbs

Currently I'm trying to figure out what herbs I should take (I massage 2x10 minutes, take 5-7g MSM with Vit C and noogle about 30 to 60 minutes every day, also listen to hypnosis 15 min).
I want to cycle the herbs - so estrogen in folicular phase and progesterone in luteal phase..
I thought about taking
1.) Fenugreek 2-3x 610 mg in folicular phase
2.) Vitex Chasteberry 1-2x 90mg in luteal phase + Walnut tea
3.) L'Arginin (1-2x 500mg) and (Spear)minttea (1 bag per day) all the cycle long

I'll order that on iHerb, the price is quite ok for a broken college student like me

But I'm not sure if Vitex is a good herb for raising progesterone? I heard it balances estrogen and progesteron. I also heard Vitex goes only to the butt (and gosh, I don't need any more growth there!) A progesteron cream seems to be better - but this is not allowed here in Austria without an recipe of a doctor.. So I'll get big problems with the duty if they check my parcel from iHerb (and they'll do so). Is there any other herb that is recommended to take in luteal phase? An herb that raises progesterone?

[peggy]

Hi uhu,

I took Chasteberry in the past (3-4 years ago) because I hoped it will lessen my acne which I had at that time. But instead it made it much worse, so I stopped after 5-6 weeks.

I think you can take fenugreek in follicular phase but some members take it throughout their cycle. On some websites I read FG is estrogenic, but on other websites I read its not.... It works similar like goats rue which is not estrogenic either.

Definitely try the walnut leaves tea, which contains natural progesterone, as we know.

Spearmint tea should be used in follicular phase only, at least that is what I read many times and this was done in the human studies as well.

If your progesterone level was within the range I would not risk to use progesterone cream, since it might raise your progesterone too much. Try it with herbs first.

[surferjoe2007]

Not much herbal specifically for progesterone I'm afraid. Prolactin might barely help progesterone. With vitex that means 40-125 mg. Using more can actually lower your prolactin and then you get more estrogen.

But there are plenty of herbs that have a balanced effect, and you're in luck since your hormones are already balanced. Meaning you could simply avoid both estrogen and progesterone herbs and focus on herbs that have a blanket effect. Then take only that and an anti-androgen to make sure your testosterone doesn't raise along with everything else.

IMO on a budget order whole fenugreek seeds, soak in water overnight and eat. Start with 1 tsp and go as high as 1/4 to 1/2 cup (measured dry). It's good for increasing sensitivity to every hormone you already have whether you're female or male. I was using it for male things and it's truly amazing, like there's no upper limit nor diminishing returns. Since your hormones are balanced I think it will be extremely effective. Twice as much will be nearly twice as fast; ten times as much nearly ten times as fast. Plus it's a cheaper food than ramen and very high in iron. So no phytoestrogens, no progesterone and just stick to that alone and maybe an anti-androgen.

If you don't like the maple smell you could get a shatavari extract instead. Preferably with XX% saponins for high concentration. Again no real upper limit so use as much as you can. I mean there's a mouse study where the mouse on an extremely high dose becomes way oversized, as in the worst case of breast hypertrophy: so overgrown they become a clinical problem, get in the way of normal activity, squeeze milk ducts shut, etc. But the key was the mouse had its own source of hormones from pregnancy. Normally non-humans have hardly any and no breasts until then. So it's very good that you have balanced hormones. Studies found no toxicity for fenugreek and shatavari even in extremely high amounts. That's what I mean by no upper limit.

Anti-androgen is a bit more expensive though perhaps optional. You could get 320 saw palmetto extract or up to 10g spearmint. You can make tea with it. Though you might not need so much since your testosterone is currently ok. I think spearmint would be a lot cheaper. Between cheap spearmint and cheaper than college food fenugreek I think you'll actually save a lot of money.

[uhuccup]

Thank you both
Peggy, I've heard that fenugreek is estrogenic and it also contains progesterone. I've read so many good things and positive reviews about progesterone cream, so I thought it would be good to add to my routine, only a little bit, pea size for both breasts every other day - but you made me think if that's good.. I don't want to mess around with my hormones..

Do you both think I should only take fenugreek the whole cycle long since my hormones are already balanced? I'll add walnut leaves tea in the luteal phase, too.
And I'll take spearmint tea. I've got 20 bags. It's a bit hard to find here in Austria. I'm afraid of taking saw palmetto, since I've read you can get cellulite from it very easy (I'm very cellulite prone ).
Where have you read that it should only be taken in folicular phase, peggy? Because I've read you should take it all the cycle long.. But, interessting to know

[surferjoe2007]

Ya eat fenugreek the whole cycle. You are already balanced so you want everything to increase equally. Some people think fenugreek is estrogen or progesterone and so they cycle it as such. But cycling it isn't necessary, and for you especially taking it all month is a much better idea. Btw I suggested whole soaked seeds b/c it won't give you stomach problems in large amounts. The dry powder soaks up a lot of water, becomes slimey & gooey, and this thick irritating lump generally wreaks havoc on your digestive track. Extracts work nicely too to avoid this sponge effect.

You can also grow spearmint pretty easily if your country has the climate for it (not sure what it likes). It's pretty much a weed and will spread fast. You might also find bulk leaves by the pound. Around me it's $11.50 a pound (454 grams). I think a typical teabag is 1.25g and the testosterone lowering studies used 10g. But it might be optional for you anyway.

I think anti-androgens may cause thicker thighs and depending on the person that may or may not lead to cellulite. Fish oil or seafood, egg yolks and almonds or sunflower seeds might help prevent it. Fish oil may raise testosterone a little, but the nutrients are essential for good health.

[ruch]

I saw this article about needing to balance estrogen with progesterone:
http://altmedicine.about.com/cs/3/a/Herbal_Breast.htm

also, this is interesting - written by a Nurse Practitioner (in Canada, that is the nurse category that is just below being a doctor):
http://www.womentowomen.com/hormonal-hea...dominance/