09-06-2011, 10:15 AM
Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...?
January 18 2009 at 12:45 AM
SensualCancer (Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER
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SOMEBODY PLEaSE HELP ME...
I was on here a couple months ago; mainly to balance my hormones but to also see if breast enhancement would work for me.
So i started taking Vitex for 1 month and didn't like it so i stopped.
And in the mist of taking vitex, i ordered saw palmetto, wild yam, and fenugreek from greenbush and took all of that 3 times a day, for 2 months straight.
(BTW I'm progesterone deficient and have estrogen dominance or maybe not enough of both. -shrugs- I also had horrrible PMS that was always guaranteed.)
...I stopped taking all of it all together because i saw absolutely no results and was wondering why i felt no changes.
My cycle every since I was a teen was every 2-3 months before i started again. (keep that in mind OK?)
Then after I stopped taking the herbs and extracts, two months later, my menstrual came in 33 days. No cramps. No PMS.
This past month after taking no herbs... my menstrual came in 27 days!! PMS was non-existent. I didn't even know my period was coming. Yay!
But why is this... DO you know or have a hint at least? I changed my diet as well because my BMI was really low so I started having 3 or 4 meals a day and dranked 3 ensure shakes a day to increase it and gain weight so the herbs will work better. Could it be that? Since my cycle is finally back to normal for the first time in my life since... forever... should I start taking my herbs again to try NBE but lower my dose? And now that I'm back to normal, does that mean that I'm more likely to get pregnant now. Because i haven't in YEARS and I also had repeated miscarriages.
Sorry for rambling on but I'm so confused.
I just really need SOMEBODY to help me see some kind of light in this.
Thanks,
Sensualcancer
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 2:11 AM
Hi SensualCancer,
It seems to me that your body responded to the saw palmetto (reducing testosterone), wild yam (mild phytestrogen) and fenugreek (galactogouge that enhances prolactin).
You did not respond to the high dosages, but after you stopped the reducing level in your body reached the appropriate amount for your system and you responded.
If I were you I would try the reduced level of these three herbs again. Try taking just one dose of each per day.
Since you have only just reached hormone balance, why don't you just enjoy this for a while. It is quite possible that your body will naturally increase your breast size if you stay in this hormone balance for a while.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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SensualCancer
(Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 4:01 AM
I think I'll do that and hope that my cycle stay's normal for a while. I know this sounds insane but I didn't even feel like I was on my period at all. It actually felt nice for a change instead of feeling like crap all the time.
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Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 1:32 PM
Couldn't the vitex also have sth to do with it, as it's know vitex only starts working after 3 months?
We know today that WY is usueless for most people for NBE, but it's useful for estrogen dominance cause it diminishes estrgenic actions. So it can help PMS, but I doubt it could help breast growth, cause for that you need relatively high estrogen and adequately high progesterone to counterbalance it. Lowering estrogen to diminish the gap doesn't sound like a likely way to achieve breast growth to me...
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 7:50 PM
Hi Moon,
I did consider the vitex, but according to her time line she took vitex for 1 month only then stopped. During this time she took the other herbs and stopped them after 2 months. Her positive effect began 2 months after she stopped all herbs which was about 3 months after she stopped the vitex. I think the use of vitex was such a short duration it did not contribute to her effect... but hey, maybe it did. We all respond differently to herbs.
The other thing I did not comment on was the increase of BMI. Absolutely increasing weight can have a positive effect on hormone balance in someone who is underweight. Just the increase of protein will allow the body to build more hormones. Also the increase of body fat will allow the body to store more hormones.
Whether SensualCancer achieves NBE is not as important as whether she achieves hormonal balance in my opinion. Health is far more life affirming than boobs.
Now whether a low dose phytoestrogen increases or decreases total body estrogen is a matter of dosage. A small amount of a low dose phytoestrogen like WY or fennel will occupy vacant estrogen receptors and add to the total body estrogen - in other words it will increase estrogen. The same substances taken at a higher dosage will likely not just occupy vacant estrogen receptors, but also occupy receptors that would have been filled by the body's more potent natural estrogen. This effect will reduce total body estrogen.
So, one of the things about stalling is that a person has not only filled the empty receptors but has 'blocked' receptors from being filled by the body's own hormones. This is why in the classic 'stall' there is an initial upswing of positive effect followed by the stall of no effect which is then followed by another upswing of positive effects.
As far as what SensualCancer needs for proper hormone balance - it is just guesswork. The only way to have any idea is for there to be some sort of blood or saliva test to check for excesses or deficiencies. I truly don't know why this combination of herbs worked for her, but it did work. Therefore trying it at lower dosages may continue to create a positive effect.
Anyway... at this point I am just aimlessly talking ... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
Em
(Login Emilia109) Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 12:57 AM
I would say most of what you're experiencing is due to increasing your BMI. Low body weight messes your cycles up or makes them nonexistent. It also makes getting pregnant/having a healthy pregnancy difficult. Getting to a healthy BMI improves all of those things, so I would also guess that it would be easier to get pregnant now, but that's just based purely on BMI since I don't know anything else about you or your fertility.
Two of my best friends have always been underweight naturally, and they both had the same problems until they really worked on gaining weight.
I would try herbs again, it couldn't hurt anything and it sounds like your body might react more to them now.
That's my two cents, for whatever it's worth.
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SensualCancer
(Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 3:00 AM
it might possibly be the vitex did a little something, but i don't think it was taken long enough to see an effect. (on one month, off 3 or 4...) It COULD possibly be the raise in the BMI but i only gained 4 lbs and i haven't been able to gain anymore... Can your BMI raise if you gain 4 lbs. even though you haven't gained any muscle?
and i'm confused on whether vitex is good or not because people have different views on it.
either way, i'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing so things will be normal.
Edit Message Delete Message
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 4:19 AM
What day of your cycle did you stop all herbs?
SensualCancer
(Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 4:27 AM
I don't know. at that point my cycle was still 2-3 months so I wouldn't know. it was probably before I was about to start the next cycle. (before it went back to normal.)
January 18 2009 at 12:45 AM
SensualCancer (Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SOMEBODY PLEaSE HELP ME...
I was on here a couple months ago; mainly to balance my hormones but to also see if breast enhancement would work for me.
So i started taking Vitex for 1 month and didn't like it so i stopped.
And in the mist of taking vitex, i ordered saw palmetto, wild yam, and fenugreek from greenbush and took all of that 3 times a day, for 2 months straight.
(BTW I'm progesterone deficient and have estrogen dominance or maybe not enough of both. -shrugs- I also had horrrible PMS that was always guaranteed.)
...I stopped taking all of it all together because i saw absolutely no results and was wondering why i felt no changes.
My cycle every since I was a teen was every 2-3 months before i started again. (keep that in mind OK?)
Then after I stopped taking the herbs and extracts, two months later, my menstrual came in 33 days. No cramps. No PMS.
This past month after taking no herbs... my menstrual came in 27 days!! PMS was non-existent. I didn't even know my period was coming. Yay!
But why is this... DO you know or have a hint at least? I changed my diet as well because my BMI was really low so I started having 3 or 4 meals a day and dranked 3 ensure shakes a day to increase it and gain weight so the herbs will work better. Could it be that? Since my cycle is finally back to normal for the first time in my life since... forever... should I start taking my herbs again to try NBE but lower my dose? And now that I'm back to normal, does that mean that I'm more likely to get pregnant now. Because i haven't in YEARS and I also had repeated miscarriages.
Sorry for rambling on but I'm so confused.
I just really need SOMEBODY to help me see some kind of light in this.
Thanks,
Sensualcancer
Author Reply
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 2:11 AM
Hi SensualCancer,
It seems to me that your body responded to the saw palmetto (reducing testosterone), wild yam (mild phytestrogen) and fenugreek (galactogouge that enhances prolactin).
You did not respond to the high dosages, but after you stopped the reducing level in your body reached the appropriate amount for your system and you responded.
If I were you I would try the reduced level of these three herbs again. Try taking just one dose of each per day.
Since you have only just reached hormone balance, why don't you just enjoy this for a while. It is quite possible that your body will naturally increase your breast size if you stay in this hormone balance for a while.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
SensualCancer
(Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 4:01 AM
I think I'll do that and hope that my cycle stay's normal for a while. I know this sounds insane but I didn't even feel like I was on my period at all. It actually felt nice for a change instead of feeling like crap all the time.
Edit Message Delete Message
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 1:32 PM
Couldn't the vitex also have sth to do with it, as it's know vitex only starts working after 3 months?
We know today that WY is usueless for most people for NBE, but it's useful for estrogen dominance cause it diminishes estrgenic actions. So it can help PMS, but I doubt it could help breast growth, cause for that you need relatively high estrogen and adequately high progesterone to counterbalance it. Lowering estrogen to diminish the gap doesn't sound like a likely way to achieve breast growth to me...
Edit Message Delete Message
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 18 2009, 7:50 PM
Hi Moon,
I did consider the vitex, but according to her time line she took vitex for 1 month only then stopped. During this time she took the other herbs and stopped them after 2 months. Her positive effect began 2 months after she stopped all herbs which was about 3 months after she stopped the vitex. I think the use of vitex was such a short duration it did not contribute to her effect... but hey, maybe it did. We all respond differently to herbs.
The other thing I did not comment on was the increase of BMI. Absolutely increasing weight can have a positive effect on hormone balance in someone who is underweight. Just the increase of protein will allow the body to build more hormones. Also the increase of body fat will allow the body to store more hormones.
Whether SensualCancer achieves NBE is not as important as whether she achieves hormonal balance in my opinion. Health is far more life affirming than boobs.
Now whether a low dose phytoestrogen increases or decreases total body estrogen is a matter of dosage. A small amount of a low dose phytoestrogen like WY or fennel will occupy vacant estrogen receptors and add to the total body estrogen - in other words it will increase estrogen. The same substances taken at a higher dosage will likely not just occupy vacant estrogen receptors, but also occupy receptors that would have been filled by the body's more potent natural estrogen. This effect will reduce total body estrogen.
So, one of the things about stalling is that a person has not only filled the empty receptors but has 'blocked' receptors from being filled by the body's own hormones. This is why in the classic 'stall' there is an initial upswing of positive effect followed by the stall of no effect which is then followed by another upswing of positive effects.
As far as what SensualCancer needs for proper hormone balance - it is just guesswork. The only way to have any idea is for there to be some sort of blood or saliva test to check for excesses or deficiencies. I truly don't know why this combination of herbs worked for her, but it did work. Therefore trying it at lower dosages may continue to create a positive effect.
Anyway... at this point I am just aimlessly talking ... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Edit Message Delete Message
Em
(Login Emilia109) Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 12:57 AM
I would say most of what you're experiencing is due to increasing your BMI. Low body weight messes your cycles up or makes them nonexistent. It also makes getting pregnant/having a healthy pregnancy difficult. Getting to a healthy BMI improves all of those things, so I would also guess that it would be easier to get pregnant now, but that's just based purely on BMI since I don't know anything else about you or your fertility.
Two of my best friends have always been underweight naturally, and they both had the same problems until they really worked on gaining weight.
I would try herbs again, it couldn't hurt anything and it sounds like your body might react more to them now.
That's my two cents, for whatever it's worth.
Edit Message Delete Message
SensualCancer
(Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 3:00 AM
it might possibly be the vitex did a little something, but i don't think it was taken long enough to see an effect. (on one month, off 3 or 4...) It COULD possibly be the raise in the BMI but i only gained 4 lbs and i haven't been able to gain anymore... Can your BMI raise if you gain 4 lbs. even though you haven't gained any muscle?
and i'm confused on whether vitex is good or not because people have different views on it.
either way, i'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing so things will be normal.
Edit Message Delete Message
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 4:19 AM
What day of your cycle did you stop all herbs?
SensualCancer
(Login SensualCancer)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Can you answer this Wahaika, Waxingmoon, or anyone else...? January 19 2009, 4:27 AM
I don't know. at that point my cycle was still 2-3 months so I wouldn't know. it was probably before I was about to start the next cycle. (before it went back to normal.)