26-03-2011, 07:24 PM
Fish oil negative effect on NBE?
August 26 2009 at 10:15 AM BeautifulJourney (Login beautifuljourney)
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Hello
I've read the book 'The Orgasmic Diet', where high dosages of fish oil (much more than the recommended amount) are highly recommended to increase libido.
Does anybody know whether fish oil has any negative effect on NBE?
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milani
(Login millanii)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 26 2009, 10:55 PM
I think fish oil is supposed to be good for NBE isnt it?
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hunnycreme
(Login hunnycreme) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 9:04 AM
I'm taking 3000mg of fish oil daily as a part of my nbe program. Don't think it has any effect on nbe. Did the book mention that it will have any negative effect? If yes, i better stop!
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 4:32 PM
As far as I remember from the Orgasmic diet book (my friend has it now, so I can't check), fish oil increases free testosterone.
According to the Flat to Fab book, for NBE you need to 1) balance estrogen 2) stimulate prolactin, 3) decrease testosterone.
I've only taken fish oil for 3 days or so. However, I discovered some acne today which is a sign of testosterone. I can also feel no growing pain anymore. I will stop taking the fish oil again. Hopefully, the growing pain will return.
If anybody has any different information on fish oil and NBE, please share.
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hunnycreme
(Login hunnycreme) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 5:04 PM
Wow...that's a valuable piece of info for me. I'll also stop taking fish oil and see if my results will speed up. Thanks!
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 6:34 PM
Fish oil provide Omega 3 Fatty Acids which are essential in balancing the Omega 6 Fatty acids we get from our diet and from supplements like Borage oil and Evening Primrose oil.
Taking fish oil is not a negative to NBE. It promotes the creation of all hormones.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 7:17 PM
@waxingmoon
I had hoped you and/or Wahaika would respond to my thread. Hopefully, Wahaika will share his knowledge too. I'm learning so much from you two :-).
I'm just a little bit sceptical since I think (as far as I remember it from the book the Orgasmic Diet) it's in particular the DHA in the fish oil that is responsible for increasing your free testosterone level. The book suggests to swallow quite a lot of fish capsules daily (the amount depends on your body weight and it focuses on the amount of DHA) in order to increase your libido.
I'm pretty sure that my acne has to do with the fish oil capsules. I've recently got acne because I ate a lot of dark chocolate (also recommended in the book The Orgasmic Diet, although I ate far more than the recommended amount), but I haven't eaten any chocolate for quite some time now. I also don't usually get acne (I'm nearly 34). I think the acne I got this time has to do with the fish oil which must have increased my testosterone. As far as I know, that's good for the libido, but bad for NBE.
Maybe people who want to balance out the fatty acids from borage oil and/or primrose oil should take another source of omega 3 fatty acids such as flaxseeds? I did add the fish oil in order to increase my libido (I'm not taking borage oil at the moment, but just got some in the mail today and will add it soon. I just don't want to add all the supplements at once and will wait 2-3 days before adding extra stuff to test for allergies)
Obviously, I'm not as knowledgeable as others in this forum here and I'm here to learn whatever I can. What I wrote about the fish oil is based on reading the book The Orgasmic Diet, and on my acne and on my lack of growing pain (it could be a coincidence - I'm not taking a lot of herbs at the moment anyway - just the commercial procurvesplus pills plus massage with olive oil and fenugreek extract mixture plus protein shakes and Greenbush's bustea and today I started with extra fenugreek and I will soon add more herbs), but I did have some growing pain before taking the fish oil).
I will discontinue the fish oil for the time being. However, I would love to hear other people's opinion on this.
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Butterfly
(Login Butterfly84) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 7:58 PM
I've always heard nothing but good things about fish oil. It's supposed to be wonderful for our hair, skin, and nails. I take it and have never had negative side effects from it.
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S.B.
(Login ShyBoobs)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 8:45 PM
I still get some pains, especially after using my boobie batter & my heat pad, and I'm taking fish oil. The only negative effect I experienced was...ahem...stomach probs. I had been taking 3000 mgs before, yet now that I cut it back to 1000, I didn't have any more stomach aches. So if you'd still like to take it then just lower it to 1000 mgs and see how it goes. As waxingmoon mentioned, fish oil is good for its omega 3's (and some other things that flaxseed oil doesn't have). You can always do a Google search for more info tho.
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 9:11 PM
@Butterfly
I've also heard hardly anything negative about fish oil. It's just that according to the knowledge I have, the DHA in it increases free testosterone level. This is good if you want to increase your libido, but as far as I understand, this is bad for NBE.
Obviously for those who do take it now and experience growth (lucky you - I have hardly experienced any growth) - I wouldn't change anything. However, when I added the fish oil, acne appeared and the growing pain disappeared. I did not change my diet in any other way (I did not eat any more carbs than I usually do and I tend to eat low carb anyway). Based on that I will stop using it for the time being, but may take it again later on. In fact I'm happy to hear that others don't see it as affecting NBE negatively.
I also see that fish oil has even more health benefits than flaxseed, which also contains omega 3. My point was that flaxseed doesn't have DHA which, according to as far as I remember it from the book I've read, increases testosterone.
I do agree with everybody here that fish oil has tremendous benefits on health.
Also, my friend has my book now (The Orgasmic Diet). I will check the fish oil thing in there once I get my book back and might post the info from the book in here (the fish oil testosterone connection). The book has obviously nothing to do with NBE, but with increasing libido (in particular women's) and orgasms.
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 9:22 PM
BTW as far as fish oil is concerned, it doesn't say much when you say I take 1000mg or 3000mg daily. You should check the amount of EPA and DHA. The values of EPA and DHA vary tremendously. Generally, the more there is in it, the better for your health. However, as far as NBE is concerned - I'm not so sure about that.
Unfortunately, not all brands list EPA and DHA separately.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 11:22 PM
In a nutshell:
SHBG has a positive effect on BE when elevated because higher SHBG = lower free testosterone.
SHBG has a negative effect on BE when lowered because lower SHBG = higher free testosterone.
The main difference between fish oil and flaxseed oil is the effect on SHBG. Fish oil lowers SHBG. Flaxseed oil raises SHBG.
I have also noticed that those who take fish oil usually have little or no success. Those who have grown the most have usually used flaxseed oil. I used to be against flaxseed oil because the lignands in flax are anti aromatase. I have since found that it is not a significant source of lignands unless the hulls are also present. But the track records speak for themselves.
Flaxseed oil is good for BE and fish oil is not.
My two cents,
Wahaika
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new
(Login violette7) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 10:10 AM
I will stop the fish oil, but want to ask eating the grinde flax seed is it better than the oil or is it worse in lowering the free testosterone? I am androgenic - high testosterone and have high prolactine from stress which caused my weight gain and stopped my periods for awhile. I am eating flax seed grinded soaked in water and fish oil, but i will stop the fish oil for now.
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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 5:49 PM
I took high doses of fish oil along with dark chocolate for some time (also following The Orgasmic Diet book). I have to say that yes, yes, YES! this does work for libido, but also gave me a nasty case of acne that I am still dealing with after quitting the fish oil a while ago.
Interestingly, my libido after quitting the regimine remains much better than it was prior to taking the fish oil and chocolate, so perhaps some hormone balancing or other beneficial lasting change occured.
Similarly, my breasts are larger after doing a year of NBE than they were before I started.
So perhaps the best thing to do is to try each program out for a while and hope to retain the gains, then go on to the next usefull program and work on that for a while...In other words, don't try to do them all simultaneously, since they work with different mechanisms and may interfere with each other.
Good luck!
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holly
(Login DancingArianFlame)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 6:49 PM
thanks for the info i was takin one cod liver oil a day (400mg) it is abit odd since omega-3 is one of the things mentioned in NBE alot. im taking collagen tablets which have bulking agents init and a hell of alot of protien and omega-3 in them so the loss of the cod liver won't matter. maybe hydrolyzed collagen tablets can be used instead of fish oil for people who need to take fish oil?
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 10:06 PM
Violette7,
Flaxseed oil is OK, but ground flaxseed has more lignands and is likely to be an anti-aromatase. Keep tabs on any signs of high testosterone. It may be good on an individual basis. If someone were borderline high androgens I would not recommend it.
Wahaika
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 10:08 PM
Holly,
It depends on why they are on fish oil. Flaxseed oil is plant based omega-3 where fish oil is animal based. For women I would generally recommend flaxseed oil over fish oil because of the SHBG issues stated above.
Wahaika
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Sandra
(Login SandraDD) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 1:53 PM
I've been taking fish oil (cod liver oil) religiously everyday with CoQ10, and I have been seeing great growth with NBE especially in the past month and half. So add me to the "fish oil = no negative effect" list (knock on wood).
I love what fish oil + Co Q10 (great anti-oxidant) is doing to my skin, btw.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 5:49 PM
Sandra,
Yep, cod liver oil is definitely a fish oil, but is different than the usual fish oil that is sold as it is specifically from fish liver. Hence the good effect on your skin because of the higher vitamin A and vitamin D content.
Those suffering with acne, and want to address acne, cod liver oil would be an excellent choice. Hmm. You may have something there. Maybe those who want to take fish oil should take specifically cod liver oil.
You are the first person ever to say that they were taking "fish oil" and still have results - but then you are also the only one to report cod liver oil specifically, and taking Co-Q10 with it. I wonder what the difference is in relation to BE. Hmmmm. Vitamin D? Are you also taking calcium/magnesium & vitamin C?
http://drbenkim.com/codliveroil.html
Wahaika
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CousinRose
(Login CousinRose) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 6:04 PM
Hey Wahaika,
I just thought I should tell you that I have also been using cod liver oil (primerily as a vitamin d supplement) and I had success with NBE when I first started. So add me to Sandra's list
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 6:10 PM
CousinRose,
Good! Great! This is looking better and better. How is your acne? Clear?
Wahaika
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 7:21 PM
As far as I remember it from the book, it's the DHA in the fish oil that increases free testosterone. Fish oil tends to be more expensive, the more EPA and DHA it contains.
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 7:25 PM
I'm still trying to grasp the science behind NBE (guess will take me some time...)
What does anti aromatase mean? And does Wahaika recommend ground or crashed flaxseed (I've got both at home :-) ) rather than flaxseed oil?
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 2:01 AM
Hi Wahaika,
I too take fish oil - at least 1500mg per day. I also take 1000mg of cod liver oil and I take about 4000 IU of Vitamin D per day. I have had good results with NBE.
I think that for women who do not have high testosterone, the fish oil is not a problem.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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Sandra
(Login SandraDD) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 4:43 AM
Hi Wahaika,
Yea I did some research that's why I ended up deciding to go with this Arctic Cod Liver Oil even though it was more expensive & more cumbersome (3 pills instead of 1 pill) instead of just regular fish oil.
I barely have any acne problem. I have very clear skin and often people think I have make up on when I'm not wearing anything except lip gloss. Half of the supplements I take are for NBE and half are for my skin. I think that's why even though the NBE supplements are having an effect on my hormones that's supposed to trigger breakouts, my skin is doing fine.
This info might be useful for those who have acne problems: 2 mini zits started surfacing after I started using Progesterone Cream 2 weeks ago, which I think has a significant effect on my hormones because my breasts are noticeably fuller, but as soon as I felt the 2 zits starting to surface I put on some tea tree oil (which is THE most effective product I've ever tried with acne, it prevents acne from ever maturing into anything noticeable. You can buy it at Bodyshop) twice a day for a few days so they never really came out.
I'm not taking vitamin D pills, but I am taking a multi-vitamin ("Mega Vitamin for Women") which contains 800 IU Vitamin D and 250 IU Vitamin E and 500mg vitamin C.
Co Q10 + cod liver oil is also probably a good combination (Co Q10 must be taken with oil).
Co Q10 (Coenzyme Q10) is supposed to vitalize cells, so maybe that's one possible reason why it works for NBE on me.
It's also a great anti-oxidant that prevents lipid peroxidation, which helps the formation of free radicals, which is bad for our body and I'd presume probably bad for NBE too. So Co Q10 prevents that.
I am also taking the Emergen-C vitamin C with the NeoCell collagen powder (10g a day) I am taking everyday.
I think they definitely help, because these supplements I'm taking for good skin are basically improving the overall physical condition of my body. My body feels healthier. And a healthy body can only promote good NBE growth!
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CousinRose
(Login CousinRose) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 8:05 PM
Hey Wahaika,
I have very nice skin and the only acne I get is hormone related. I get terrible PMS (trying to find something to help me with it) and some acne with it. Not to bad though. However, cod liver oil is very common in my country and it is well known that it is very good for the skin and for acne.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 10:38 PM
BeautifulJourney,
Aromatase (Cytochrome P450) is an enzyme that when bound with a testosterone molecule = en estrogen molecule. Anti-aromatase is something that inhibits this activity.
Wahaika
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 10:41 PM
Waxingmoon,
I think you're right. Fish oil lowers SHBG which raises the circulating amount of free testosterone. If one is low in testosterone to begin with, they should not have the problems associated with it such as acne.
Ok, we'll add you to the list too - and the list where cod liver oil was used. Did/do you have any acne problems while on BE?
Wahaika
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 10:49 PM
I think that you ladies have really nailed something here with cod liver oil usage and the anti-acne results, especially with vitamin C, D, and CoQ10. I wonder if Calcium and Magnesium should be added to the list? Vitamin D is going to really help with that. Anyone also taking MSM and paying attention to liver health would benefit greatly from this thread!! I am beginning to think that the acne monster has been slain!
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holly
(Login DancingArianFlame)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 11:11 PM
so, it's okay if it's cod liver oil rarther than just any kind of fish oil?
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 1 2009, 12:37 AM
Hi Wahaika,
I never had any acne problems except for my bout with Fenugreek. It did not do well for me and caused a break out in just days when I began to use it.
I just updated my program page with my current huge list of supplements. I have several health issues I treat so I am atypical in what I take, but I really feel that the vitamin D is doing something for me. I recently increased from about 2000 IU per day to about 6000 IU per day and my breasts are responding. Of course it could be something else in what I am taking, but that was the most recent thing I changed and the effect began after that.
Here is the link to my program page that lists the supplements I am taking:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/482052/th...a+to+start
Just scroll to the bottom and you will find my latest novel.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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hunnycreme
(Login hunnycreme) DHA in Cod Liver Oil September 1 2009, 7:13 PM
according to the book mentioned by BeautifulJourney, DHA increases free testosterone which in turn inhibits NBE. however, it seems that cod liver oil also contain DHA (according to the nutritional value analysis of cod liver oil at the carlson's link). So in that way, wouldn't cod liver oil impede the process of nbe as well?
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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 1 2009, 7:34 PM
My guess is that for anyone with low testosterone (which includes most women experiencing low libido), raising free testosterone levels with fish oil is mostly going to be a good thing, and probably not going to impede NBE to a significant extent. People who already had high testosterone, of course, would not do well to raise it more!
Wahaika, I know you've talked some about different "types" responding to different approaches. This really makes a lot of sense...Tailoring a program to the specific hormonal/body type of the individual woman. Thanks for all your input on these boards!
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Redqueen
(Login Redqueen13) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 6 2009, 5:15 AM
Wakaika or anyone else -
What about black currant seed oil? I'm taking 2 grams a day because it seems to have the highest omega 6/GLA content out of borage and evening primrose, plus it has vit C and some omega 3. Would this form of omega 3 be close enough to flax or would it be good to supplement with flax oil? I definitely think I run on the side of high androgens and am taking yasmin, which has helped with the baaaad acne aspect, but luckily hasn't killed my libido too much.
Is 2 grams of this even enough?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 7 2009, 1:02 AM
Hunnycreme,
Yep. I think that it would be bad for NBE generally. For those who are really having a problem with acne it seems to work well.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 7 2009, 6:23 AM
Redqueen,
No one has really tried black currant seed oil. It looks pretty good on all sides. The GLA content is more than EPO but less than borage, and it has omega-3. I would say 2 or 3 grams per day is Ok. Definitely bump it to three during the spring.
Wahaika
Redqueen
(Login Redqueen13) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 7 2009, 3:27 PM
Thanks Wahaika... any input I can get is great.
August 26 2009 at 10:15 AM BeautifulJourney (Login beautifuljourney)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello
I've read the book 'The Orgasmic Diet', where high dosages of fish oil (much more than the recommended amount) are highly recommended to increase libido.
Does anybody know whether fish oil has any negative effect on NBE?
Author Reply
milani
(Login millanii)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 26 2009, 10:55 PM
I think fish oil is supposed to be good for NBE isnt it?
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hunnycreme
(Login hunnycreme) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 9:04 AM
I'm taking 3000mg of fish oil daily as a part of my nbe program. Don't think it has any effect on nbe. Did the book mention that it will have any negative effect? If yes, i better stop!
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 4:32 PM
As far as I remember from the Orgasmic diet book (my friend has it now, so I can't check), fish oil increases free testosterone.
According to the Flat to Fab book, for NBE you need to 1) balance estrogen 2) stimulate prolactin, 3) decrease testosterone.
I've only taken fish oil for 3 days or so. However, I discovered some acne today which is a sign of testosterone. I can also feel no growing pain anymore. I will stop taking the fish oil again. Hopefully, the growing pain will return.
If anybody has any different information on fish oil and NBE, please share.
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hunnycreme
(Login hunnycreme) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 5:04 PM
Wow...that's a valuable piece of info for me. I'll also stop taking fish oil and see if my results will speed up. Thanks!
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 6:34 PM
Fish oil provide Omega 3 Fatty Acids which are essential in balancing the Omega 6 Fatty acids we get from our diet and from supplements like Borage oil and Evening Primrose oil.
Taking fish oil is not a negative to NBE. It promotes the creation of all hormones.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 7:17 PM
@waxingmoon
I had hoped you and/or Wahaika would respond to my thread. Hopefully, Wahaika will share his knowledge too. I'm learning so much from you two :-).
I'm just a little bit sceptical since I think (as far as I remember it from the book the Orgasmic Diet) it's in particular the DHA in the fish oil that is responsible for increasing your free testosterone level. The book suggests to swallow quite a lot of fish capsules daily (the amount depends on your body weight and it focuses on the amount of DHA) in order to increase your libido.
I'm pretty sure that my acne has to do with the fish oil capsules. I've recently got acne because I ate a lot of dark chocolate (also recommended in the book The Orgasmic Diet, although I ate far more than the recommended amount), but I haven't eaten any chocolate for quite some time now. I also don't usually get acne (I'm nearly 34). I think the acne I got this time has to do with the fish oil which must have increased my testosterone. As far as I know, that's good for the libido, but bad for NBE.
Maybe people who want to balance out the fatty acids from borage oil and/or primrose oil should take another source of omega 3 fatty acids such as flaxseeds? I did add the fish oil in order to increase my libido (I'm not taking borage oil at the moment, but just got some in the mail today and will add it soon. I just don't want to add all the supplements at once and will wait 2-3 days before adding extra stuff to test for allergies)
Obviously, I'm not as knowledgeable as others in this forum here and I'm here to learn whatever I can. What I wrote about the fish oil is based on reading the book The Orgasmic Diet, and on my acne and on my lack of growing pain (it could be a coincidence - I'm not taking a lot of herbs at the moment anyway - just the commercial procurvesplus pills plus massage with olive oil and fenugreek extract mixture plus protein shakes and Greenbush's bustea and today I started with extra fenugreek and I will soon add more herbs), but I did have some growing pain before taking the fish oil).
I will discontinue the fish oil for the time being. However, I would love to hear other people's opinion on this.
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Butterfly
(Login Butterfly84) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 7:58 PM
I've always heard nothing but good things about fish oil. It's supposed to be wonderful for our hair, skin, and nails. I take it and have never had negative side effects from it.
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S.B.
(Login ShyBoobs)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 8:45 PM
I still get some pains, especially after using my boobie batter & my heat pad, and I'm taking fish oil. The only negative effect I experienced was...ahem...stomach probs. I had been taking 3000 mgs before, yet now that I cut it back to 1000, I didn't have any more stomach aches. So if you'd still like to take it then just lower it to 1000 mgs and see how it goes. As waxingmoon mentioned, fish oil is good for its omega 3's (and some other things that flaxseed oil doesn't have). You can always do a Google search for more info tho.
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 9:11 PM
@Butterfly
I've also heard hardly anything negative about fish oil. It's just that according to the knowledge I have, the DHA in it increases free testosterone level. This is good if you want to increase your libido, but as far as I understand, this is bad for NBE.
Obviously for those who do take it now and experience growth (lucky you - I have hardly experienced any growth) - I wouldn't change anything. However, when I added the fish oil, acne appeared and the growing pain disappeared. I did not change my diet in any other way (I did not eat any more carbs than I usually do and I tend to eat low carb anyway). Based on that I will stop using it for the time being, but may take it again later on. In fact I'm happy to hear that others don't see it as affecting NBE negatively.
I also see that fish oil has even more health benefits than flaxseed, which also contains omega 3. My point was that flaxseed doesn't have DHA which, according to as far as I remember it from the book I've read, increases testosterone.
I do agree with everybody here that fish oil has tremendous benefits on health.
Also, my friend has my book now (The Orgasmic Diet). I will check the fish oil thing in there once I get my book back and might post the info from the book in here (the fish oil testosterone connection). The book has obviously nothing to do with NBE, but with increasing libido (in particular women's) and orgasms.
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 9:22 PM
BTW as far as fish oil is concerned, it doesn't say much when you say I take 1000mg or 3000mg daily. You should check the amount of EPA and DHA. The values of EPA and DHA vary tremendously. Generally, the more there is in it, the better for your health. However, as far as NBE is concerned - I'm not so sure about that.
Unfortunately, not all brands list EPA and DHA separately.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 27 2009, 11:22 PM
In a nutshell:
SHBG has a positive effect on BE when elevated because higher SHBG = lower free testosterone.
SHBG has a negative effect on BE when lowered because lower SHBG = higher free testosterone.
The main difference between fish oil and flaxseed oil is the effect on SHBG. Fish oil lowers SHBG. Flaxseed oil raises SHBG.
I have also noticed that those who take fish oil usually have little or no success. Those who have grown the most have usually used flaxseed oil. I used to be against flaxseed oil because the lignands in flax are anti aromatase. I have since found that it is not a significant source of lignands unless the hulls are also present. But the track records speak for themselves.
Flaxseed oil is good for BE and fish oil is not.
My two cents,
Wahaika
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new
(Login violette7) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 10:10 AM
I will stop the fish oil, but want to ask eating the grinde flax seed is it better than the oil or is it worse in lowering the free testosterone? I am androgenic - high testosterone and have high prolactine from stress which caused my weight gain and stopped my periods for awhile. I am eating flax seed grinded soaked in water and fish oil, but i will stop the fish oil for now.
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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 5:49 PM
I took high doses of fish oil along with dark chocolate for some time (also following The Orgasmic Diet book). I have to say that yes, yes, YES! this does work for libido, but also gave me a nasty case of acne that I am still dealing with after quitting the fish oil a while ago.
Interestingly, my libido after quitting the regimine remains much better than it was prior to taking the fish oil and chocolate, so perhaps some hormone balancing or other beneficial lasting change occured.
Similarly, my breasts are larger after doing a year of NBE than they were before I started.
So perhaps the best thing to do is to try each program out for a while and hope to retain the gains, then go on to the next usefull program and work on that for a while...In other words, don't try to do them all simultaneously, since they work with different mechanisms and may interfere with each other.
Good luck!
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holly
(Login DancingArianFlame)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 6:49 PM
thanks for the info i was takin one cod liver oil a day (400mg) it is abit odd since omega-3 is one of the things mentioned in NBE alot. im taking collagen tablets which have bulking agents init and a hell of alot of protien and omega-3 in them so the loss of the cod liver won't matter. maybe hydrolyzed collagen tablets can be used instead of fish oil for people who need to take fish oil?
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 10:06 PM
Violette7,
Flaxseed oil is OK, but ground flaxseed has more lignands and is likely to be an anti-aromatase. Keep tabs on any signs of high testosterone. It may be good on an individual basis. If someone were borderline high androgens I would not recommend it.
Wahaika
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 28 2009, 10:08 PM
Holly,
It depends on why they are on fish oil. Flaxseed oil is plant based omega-3 where fish oil is animal based. For women I would generally recommend flaxseed oil over fish oil because of the SHBG issues stated above.
Wahaika
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Sandra
(Login SandraDD) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 1:53 PM
I've been taking fish oil (cod liver oil) religiously everyday with CoQ10, and I have been seeing great growth with NBE especially in the past month and half. So add me to the "fish oil = no negative effect" list (knock on wood).
I love what fish oil + Co Q10 (great anti-oxidant) is doing to my skin, btw.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 5:49 PM
Sandra,
Yep, cod liver oil is definitely a fish oil, but is different than the usual fish oil that is sold as it is specifically from fish liver. Hence the good effect on your skin because of the higher vitamin A and vitamin D content.
Those suffering with acne, and want to address acne, cod liver oil would be an excellent choice. Hmm. You may have something there. Maybe those who want to take fish oil should take specifically cod liver oil.
You are the first person ever to say that they were taking "fish oil" and still have results - but then you are also the only one to report cod liver oil specifically, and taking Co-Q10 with it. I wonder what the difference is in relation to BE. Hmmmm. Vitamin D? Are you also taking calcium/magnesium & vitamin C?
http://drbenkim.com/codliveroil.html
Wahaika
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CousinRose
(Login CousinRose) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 6:04 PM
Hey Wahaika,
I just thought I should tell you that I have also been using cod liver oil (primerily as a vitamin d supplement) and I had success with NBE when I first started. So add me to Sandra's list
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 6:10 PM
CousinRose,
Good! Great! This is looking better and better. How is your acne? Clear?
Wahaika
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 7:21 PM
As far as I remember it from the book, it's the DHA in the fish oil that increases free testosterone. Fish oil tends to be more expensive, the more EPA and DHA it contains.
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BeautifulJourney
(Login beautifuljourney) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 30 2009, 7:25 PM
I'm still trying to grasp the science behind NBE (guess will take me some time...)
What does anti aromatase mean? And does Wahaika recommend ground or crashed flaxseed (I've got both at home :-) ) rather than flaxseed oil?
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 2:01 AM
Hi Wahaika,
I too take fish oil - at least 1500mg per day. I also take 1000mg of cod liver oil and I take about 4000 IU of Vitamin D per day. I have had good results with NBE.
I think that for women who do not have high testosterone, the fish oil is not a problem.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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Sandra
(Login SandraDD) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 4:43 AM
Hi Wahaika,
Yea I did some research that's why I ended up deciding to go with this Arctic Cod Liver Oil even though it was more expensive & more cumbersome (3 pills instead of 1 pill) instead of just regular fish oil.
I barely have any acne problem. I have very clear skin and often people think I have make up on when I'm not wearing anything except lip gloss. Half of the supplements I take are for NBE and half are for my skin. I think that's why even though the NBE supplements are having an effect on my hormones that's supposed to trigger breakouts, my skin is doing fine.
This info might be useful for those who have acne problems: 2 mini zits started surfacing after I started using Progesterone Cream 2 weeks ago, which I think has a significant effect on my hormones because my breasts are noticeably fuller, but as soon as I felt the 2 zits starting to surface I put on some tea tree oil (which is THE most effective product I've ever tried with acne, it prevents acne from ever maturing into anything noticeable. You can buy it at Bodyshop) twice a day for a few days so they never really came out.
I'm not taking vitamin D pills, but I am taking a multi-vitamin ("Mega Vitamin for Women") which contains 800 IU Vitamin D and 250 IU Vitamin E and 500mg vitamin C.
Co Q10 + cod liver oil is also probably a good combination (Co Q10 must be taken with oil).
Co Q10 (Coenzyme Q10) is supposed to vitalize cells, so maybe that's one possible reason why it works for NBE on me.
It's also a great anti-oxidant that prevents lipid peroxidation, which helps the formation of free radicals, which is bad for our body and I'd presume probably bad for NBE too. So Co Q10 prevents that.
I am also taking the Emergen-C vitamin C with the NeoCell collagen powder (10g a day) I am taking everyday.
I think they definitely help, because these supplements I'm taking for good skin are basically improving the overall physical condition of my body. My body feels healthier. And a healthy body can only promote good NBE growth!
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CousinRose
(Login CousinRose) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 8:05 PM
Hey Wahaika,
I have very nice skin and the only acne I get is hormone related. I get terrible PMS (trying to find something to help me with it) and some acne with it. Not to bad though. However, cod liver oil is very common in my country and it is well known that it is very good for the skin and for acne.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 10:38 PM
BeautifulJourney,
Aromatase (Cytochrome P450) is an enzyme that when bound with a testosterone molecule = en estrogen molecule. Anti-aromatase is something that inhibits this activity.
Wahaika
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 10:41 PM
Waxingmoon,
I think you're right. Fish oil lowers SHBG which raises the circulating amount of free testosterone. If one is low in testosterone to begin with, they should not have the problems associated with it such as acne.
Ok, we'll add you to the list too - and the list where cod liver oil was used. Did/do you have any acne problems while on BE?
Wahaika
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 10:49 PM
I think that you ladies have really nailed something here with cod liver oil usage and the anti-acne results, especially with vitamin C, D, and CoQ10. I wonder if Calcium and Magnesium should be added to the list? Vitamin D is going to really help with that. Anyone also taking MSM and paying attention to liver health would benefit greatly from this thread!! I am beginning to think that the acne monster has been slain!
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holly
(Login DancingArianFlame)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? August 31 2009, 11:11 PM
so, it's okay if it's cod liver oil rarther than just any kind of fish oil?
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waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 1 2009, 12:37 AM
Hi Wahaika,
I never had any acne problems except for my bout with Fenugreek. It did not do well for me and caused a break out in just days when I began to use it.
I just updated my program page with my current huge list of supplements. I have several health issues I treat so I am atypical in what I take, but I really feel that the vitamin D is doing something for me. I recently increased from about 2000 IU per day to about 6000 IU per day and my breasts are responding. Of course it could be something else in what I am taking, but that was the most recent thing I changed and the effect began after that.
Here is the link to my program page that lists the supplements I am taking:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/482052/th...a+to+start
Just scroll to the bottom and you will find my latest novel.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
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hunnycreme
(Login hunnycreme) DHA in Cod Liver Oil September 1 2009, 7:13 PM
according to the book mentioned by BeautifulJourney, DHA increases free testosterone which in turn inhibits NBE. however, it seems that cod liver oil also contain DHA (according to the nutritional value analysis of cod liver oil at the carlson's link). So in that way, wouldn't cod liver oil impede the process of nbe as well?
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Corrie
(Login Corrie73) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 1 2009, 7:34 PM
My guess is that for anyone with low testosterone (which includes most women experiencing low libido), raising free testosterone levels with fish oil is mostly going to be a good thing, and probably not going to impede NBE to a significant extent. People who already had high testosterone, of course, would not do well to raise it more!
Wahaika, I know you've talked some about different "types" responding to different approaches. This really makes a lot of sense...Tailoring a program to the specific hormonal/body type of the individual woman. Thanks for all your input on these boards!
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Redqueen
(Login Redqueen13) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 6 2009, 5:15 AM
Wakaika or anyone else -
What about black currant seed oil? I'm taking 2 grams a day because it seems to have the highest omega 6/GLA content out of borage and evening primrose, plus it has vit C and some omega 3. Would this form of omega 3 be close enough to flax or would it be good to supplement with flax oil? I definitely think I run on the side of high androgens and am taking yasmin, which has helped with the baaaad acne aspect, but luckily hasn't killed my libido too much.
Is 2 grams of this even enough?
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated!
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 7 2009, 1:02 AM
Hunnycreme,
Yep. I think that it would be bad for NBE generally. For those who are really having a problem with acne it seems to work well.
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Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 7 2009, 6:23 AM
Redqueen,
No one has really tried black currant seed oil. It looks pretty good on all sides. The GLA content is more than EPO but less than borage, and it has omega-3. I would say 2 or 3 grams per day is Ok. Definitely bump it to three during the spring.
Wahaika
Redqueen
(Login Redqueen13) Re: Fish oil negative effect on NBE? September 7 2009, 3:27 PM
Thanks Wahaika... any input I can get is great.