[chrishoney]

Kaya,

I didn't want answers from you as I pretty much suspected that you would say what you did: "it's what someone told me", possibly a sales rep on the phone! I did/do want you and me and everyone else, to be accountable for the veracity of statements and advice we give out, as if they are incontrovertible

Chrishoney,

Why is it you love to go so out your way to make a point? That's a very masculine quality you have. You enjoy using big long words to try and intimidate? Strange. lol

Did you ever swallow a dictionary by any chance?

Big HuGZzz
KAYA

ROFLMAO!!!! Oh man, thanks so much for the belly laugh! As for swallowing the dictionary, nah, I probably just paid attention in school the way your teachers hoped desperately that you would do!!!! LMAO

[carlaa1124]

COFFEE IS NOT ESTROGENIC.............IF IT CONTAINS PHYOESTROGENIC MOLECULES ITS MINIMAL

[sarahwr]

Hi Carlaa.

Thanks for that post.

I actually found out what estrogenic means and presumably what you are saying, in your own sweet way, is that coffee does not help in achieving female characteristics.

Correct?

How do you equate your comment with this thread please?

http://preventdisease.com/news/articles/...ogen.shtml

Or have I got hold of the wrong end of the stick as I'm sure you will point out to me.

Does that apply to decaffienated as well please?

Best regards,

Sarah

[chrishoney]

I can't speak for carlaa, but a previous post stated that since coffee contains phytoestrogens, it should be avoided since the phytoestrogens in coffee would compete with those in PM. The phytoestrogen levels in coffee are extremely low in comparison to PM so it is very unlikely to have much if any negative effect on PM at the cellular level. Again, at the risk of putting words in carlaa's mouth, I bet she would say any negative effect someone saw with moderate coffee consumption and PM would have much, much more to do with the quality (low) of the PM than the coffee consumption.

As far as the article link you posted, unfortunately more recent research has demonstrated coffee to have a protective effect as far as breast cancer goes and seems to promote metabolization of estrogen in women of certain genotypes. One of the studies below didn't find increased risk from coffee consumption until it exceeded 8 cups/day!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16978896
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9511854
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16365077
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19775332

The study you cited said coffee may increase estradiol levels in women (probably won't find the same relationship in men since we don't have ovaries to produce estrogen, and increased FSH levels in men have a different effect than in women) but apparently there are other factors involved since coffee also seems to have a protective effect as far as breast cancer is concerned. The general conservative opinion is that anything with estrogenic effect increases the risk of breast cancer. And yet, above are recent studies showing a protective effect from coffee, while studies from Thailand and the far east show PM to have a similar protective effect as far as breast cancer is concerned. Apparently the protective effects persists despite coffee inducing increased estrogen production in women and the very high estrogenic effects of PM.

Several things need to be kept in mind, research studies such as those you posted and the ones above, NEVER show cause and effect. Thus, drawing a conclusion such as coffee increases estrogen in women, therefore coffee is bad for women with endometriosis, is at best flawed. Also, from the myriad research studies done on coffee, there are obviously other mitigating factors/substances in PM and coffee or associated with caffeine containing beverages that complicate the matter. Unfortunately, it is just not a black and white situation.

[EvaKo87]

But isn't it so that Pueraria Mirifica acts as an hormone regulator, which means it binds to the ER's if there is too much estrogen in the body and does not bind if it's too little?

And could it be that Pueraria Mirifica increase SHBG that bind to testosterone and it raise the estrogen level? For biological males this could also mean increased aromatase where testosterone is converted into estrogen? If so I'm sure coffee will effect breast growth because even a tiny bit of activity on receptors, SHBG etc. would have an effect on the whole feedback system of hormones in our body. Another thing is dependencies. If we drink coffee every day, your system will find its own way to deal with it, but if we drink coffee just sometimes, the body does not use it in the same way as for those that drink it every day.

As you know I use MiroHealth from Anne Selene so I will again use this link to show how she feels Pueraria Mirifica has effect on our breast growth and if coffee effects anything of this, then coffee is bad for your breast growth, no matter how much you drink of it.

http://www.anne-selene.com/HowDoesItWork.cfm

[sfem]

Huh? You're not making sense, EvaKo. I have seen quite a few claims for PM, but never heard of the idea that it regulates anything. The common claim is that there are only so many receptors. If phytoestrogens from any source, including PM binds to some of them, then that is fewer for other estrogens to bind to. It has nothing to do with how much estrogen is in the body to start with, other than as a competition for receptors. It certainly wouldn't mean that PM won't bind to receptors if body estrogen is low.

Regarding coffee, that topic is the zombie of this board. It won't die, but it isn't really alive either. Check out some of chrishoney's posts for actual information about coffee. And next time, don't try to jump from "my favourite manufacturer *feels* this way about PM" to "coffee is bad because it can be related to those feelings". You'll break something trying to jump that far over a vacuum.

garbage in -> garbage out

[KAYA]

Yeah, What is it about coffee and why has it become a topic here? I just reply to the questions asked me and people in here know a lot more about PM than i do. I had great results from PM, And it was this site where i first heard it about coffee being bad. Then the UK based company i get my PM from recommend no caffeine?

I have took a lot more than just PM and by lack of knowledge i have really messed my body up. Regardless to the odd dispute i have learned quite a lot from this site. I took anti-androgen's in desperation without knowledge and im paying for it now. So anyone not sure, listen to those who have studied PM. (Act in haste,repent in leisure) I may have female characteristics, but i would rather my nerves were back to how i used to be. Coffee ! Who cares! Im off for a cuppa.

KAYA

[Dana Swallows]

First of all hi everyone I am glad to of found this forum. I am 27 born with a penis I identify myself as female. I want breast but don't want to loose my function of my penis. if I take pm will that happen? I have heard estrogen will do that to your sex drive. I am also skeptical about pm but am intrueged enough to try it. I just want to feel like the girl I am inside. Can anyone recomend a place to buy this pm? I need a plan to follow, anyone? Thanks and Thanks again. I look forward to being on this site.

[carlaa1124]

LISTEN UP

Coffee has no effects on PM or breast growth.........its internet non-sense.

It started as part of a herbal breast product story for the consumer. Consumers fall for marketing stories.

The story went something that this: caffeine can cause mild vaso-constriction.......therefore this would inhibit nutrients from getting to the breasts.............non-sense.


HOW MANY OF YOU KNOW WOMEN THAT DRINK ALOT OF COFFEE AND HAVE A LARGE RACK...........THEIR IS NO SCIENCE FOR THIS........BECAUSE ITS 100 PER CENT NONSENSE..............SO WHEN YOU GO TO A WEBSITE THAT ADVISES YOU NOT TO DRINK COFFEE WITH THEIR PRODUCT..........ASK YOURSELF HOW MUCH ELSE OF THEIR STUFF IS BSSSS.

[sarahwr]

Hi Carlaa.

Surely there is a difference between a female with breasts, of what ever size, and a male trying to change their body?

My concern is whether, as a male, drinking coffee will hinder my efforts when taking herbs, including in my case PM?

Would you please clarify your comments?

Regards

Sarah