[EllaC]

Hormones, yes, but also the nutrients required for growth and development.  There are a bunch of healthy foods in my sig thread.  Mostly they're found in whole grain foods to provide the tools required, but EFA's and collagen are important construction materials too.  So we got the foreman hormones, the worker/tool nutrients, and the fat/EFA/collagen materials.  You need all 3 to make it happen.

surferjoe,  I eat paleo (no grains) with additional avoidance of dairy and eggs from a gut issue that's being addressed. I do include nuts, veggies, fruits, coconut oil and organic meats as well as collagen daily. Do you have any suggestions for grain-free alternatives for the "tools" aspect of NBE? The only things I'm doing now are spearmint tea 2x day and a small amount of PC during my luteal phase.. I'm not doing a full NBE program until my gut health is optimal,  but I'm hoping it won't be many more months before that's taken care of. What types of fats would you suggest when I embark on a program? I'm trying to tentatively put some ideas together while I work on the gut.

Im off grains too for celiac. When im motivated i brought this book. Id briefed through it when i got it from the library and its ALL about gut and subsequent autoimmune diseases etc its a huge book too! Very heavy very thick
https://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Disease/dp/1936608391/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499368814&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sarah+ballentine+paleo

[NaturalLady31]

Hormones, yes, but also the nutrients required for growth and development.  There are a bunch of healthy foods in my sig thread.  Mostly they're found in whole grain foods to provide the tools required, but EFA's and collagen are important construction materials too.  So we got the foreman hormones, the worker/tool nutrients, and the fat/EFA/collagen materials.  You need all 3 to make it happen.

surferjoe,  I eat paleo (no grains) with additional avoidance of dairy and eggs from a gut issue that's being addressed. I do include nuts, veggies, fruits, coconut oil and organic meats as well as collagen daily. Do you have any suggestions for grain-free alternatives for the "tools" aspect of NBE? The only things I'm doing now are spearmint tea 2x day and a small amount of PC during my luteal phase.. I'm not doing a full NBE program until my gut health is optimal,  but I'm hoping it won't be many more months before that's taken care of. What types of fats would you suggest when I embark on a program? I'm trying to tentatively put some ideas together while I work on the gut.

Im off grains too for celiac. When im motivated i brought this book. Id briefed through it when i got it from the library and its ALL about gut and subsequent autoimmune diseases etc its a huge book too! Very heavy very thick
https://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Disease/dp/1936608391/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499368814&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sarah+ballentine+paleo

Ella, so you're in a similar boat as me then. I'm sure there have to be other foods besides grains that we can eat to get the nutrient requirements for NBE, although I think you've already achieved your goal, right? 

This does look like a very comprehensive book! I've read some of her articles online as well. I'm hoping that I'm on the right road to healing my gut once and for all now. It can't happen soon enough!!

[surferjoe2007]

The healthiest grain I know of is brown/black rice and it contains no gluten.

I think Paleo follows caveman legends more than any real human biological needs.  But if your gut can't tolerrate grains you can try spinach, parsley, cilantro, watercress and/or endive.  You may also juice them in masticating juicer with sufficient calcium powder to neutralize the bitterness.  About a pint or pound a day.  You can flavor juice with apple or anything sweet.  Sealed in airtight bottles without air lasts 3-6 days.  That plus a tbsp rice bran (if tolerable), EFAs and eggs should cover your needs.  If you can't do rice bran you can juice a tbsp of fresh turmeric per day or take 1,000 mg turmeric (not curcumin).

[EllaC]

Hormones, yes, but also the nutrients required for growth and development.  There are a bunch of healthy foods in my sig thread.  Mostly they're found in whole grain foods to provide the tools required, but EFA's and collagen are important construction materials too.  So we got the foreman hormones, the worker/tool nutrients, and the fat/EFA/collagen materials.  You need all 3 to make it happen.

surferjoe,  I eat paleo (no grains) with additional avoidance of dairy and eggs from a gut issue that's being addressed. I do include nuts, veggies, fruits, coconut oil and organic meats as well as collagen daily. Do you have any suggestions for grain-free alternatives for the "tools" aspect of NBE? The only things I'm doing now are spearmint tea 2x day and a small amount of PC during my luteal phase.. I'm not doing a full NBE program until my gut health is optimal,  but I'm hoping it won't be many more months before that's taken care of. What types of fats would you suggest when I embark on a program? I'm trying to tentatively put some ideas together while I work on the gut.

Im off grains too for celiac. When im motivated i brought this book. Id briefed through it when i got it from the library and its ALL about gut and subsequent autoimmune diseases etc its a huge book too! Very heavy very thick
https://www.amazon.com/Paleo-Approach-Reverse-Autoimmune-Disease/dp/1936608391/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499368814&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=sarah+ballentine+paleo

Ella, so you're in a similar boat as me then. I'm sure there have to be other foods besides grains that we can eat to get the nutrient requirements for NBE, although I think you've already achieved your goal, right? 

This does look like a very comprehensive book! I've read some of her articles online as well. I'm hoping that I'm on the right road to healing my gut once and for all now. It can't happen soon enough!!

I brought this book also. Has some amazing recipes in it! Yes ive read you shouldnt cut grains if your not 100% celiac. Surfer here has some good nutrition suggestions. Il adhere to those thanks Surferjoe.
I had some wonderful gains (to me anyway) until i got hit with my gut disorder that made me loose several kg's along with the additional breast tissue i gained. I do know the gut can cause hormone inbalances. Heal the gut heal the hormones. Depends which happened first ya know. Learnt soo much re the gut in the past couple of years its mind blowing. The gut holds the key to health, that i have no doubt. So yeh we gotta heal those guts

[bettie32]

The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 should be *at most* 4:1.  Between 1:1 and 4:1 actually.  So you need some omega 6 but it's common to get too much.  Actually up to 4:1 is ideal, not the upper limit.  Up to 10:1 isn't too bad even though it isn't ideal.  More than that could be trouble.

There's something that I don't understand. I wanted to start a new thread about this but I'll ask you here Surferjoe and everyone reading this.

If omega 6 is responsible for inflammation why on earth is the "ideal" ratio 4:1? Shouldn't it be other way around, shouldn't we consume more omega 3s (anti-inflammatory)? Why would we want more inflammation and risk illnesses and more harm to our bodies? I've actually come across a couple of sites and some members on here also stated that we should consume more fish oil/omega 3s instead. 

And yet so many members on here and women around the world take very high doses of omega 6, evening primrose oil for example. It's puzzling...

[NaturalLady31]

The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 should be *at most* 4:1.  Between 1:1 and 4:1 actually.  So you need some omega 6 but it's common to get too much.  Actually up to 4:1 is ideal, not the upper limit.  Up to 10:1 isn't too bad even though it isn't ideal.  More than that could be trouble.

There's something that I don't understand. I wanted to start a new thread about this but I'll ask you here Surferjoe and everyone reading this.

If omega 6 is responsible for inflammation why on earth is the "ideal" ratio 4:1? Shouldn't it be other way around, shouldn't we consume more omega 3s (anti-inflammatory)? Why would we want more inflammation and risk illnesses and more harm to our bodies? I've actually come across a couple of sites and some members on here also stated that we should consume more fish oil/omega 3s instead. 

And yet so many members on here and women around the world take very high doses of omega 6, evening primrose oil for example. It's puzzling...

Good one, Bettie! I too have always read that we need much more omega 3's.   I'm not keen on the idea of ramping up anything that could promote inflammation (who would want to??)

[Lotus]

The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 should be *at most* 4:1.  Between 1:1 and 4:1 actually.  So you need some omega 6 but it's common to get too much.  Actually up to 4:1 is ideal, not the upper limit.  Up to 10:1 isn't too bad even though it isn't ideal.  More than that could be trouble.

There's something that I don't understand. I wanted to start a new thread about this but I'll ask you here Surferjoe and everyone reading this.

If omega 6 is responsible for inflammation why on earth is the "ideal" ratio 4:1? Shouldn't it be other way around, shouldn't we consume more omega 3s (anti-inflammatory)? Why would we want more inflammation and risk illnesses and more harm to our bodies? I've actually come across a couple of sites and some members on here also stated that we should consume more fish oil/omega 3s instead. 

And yet so many members on here and women around the world take very high doses of omega 6, evening primrose oil for example. It's puzzling...

Good one, Bettie! I too have always read that we need much more omega 3's.    I'm not keen on the idea of ramping up anything that could promote inflammation (who would want to??)

This is true.....there is no earthly benefit to systemic inflammation...especially when most major illness comes from the inflammation in cells (in other words, proliferation). The 1:1 ratio is ideally synergistic for all things considered (e.g. mRNA, DNA synthesis....and the mitochondrial matrix).

good point Bettie.

[surferjoe2007]

The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 should be *at most* 4:1.  Between 1:1 and 4:1 actually.  So you need some omega 6 but it's common to get too much.  Actually up to 4:1 is ideal, not the upper limit.  Up to 10:1 isn't too bad even though it isn't ideal.  More than that could be trouble.

There's something that I don't understand. I wanted to start a new thread about this but I'll ask you here Surferjoe and everyone reading this.

If omega 6 is responsible for inflammation why on earth is the "ideal" ratio 4:1? Shouldn't it be other way around, shouldn't we consume more omega 3s (anti-inflammatory)? Why would we want more inflammation and risk illnesses and more harm to our bodies? I've actually come across a couple of sites and some members on here also stated that we should consume more fish oil/omega 3s instead. 

And yet so many members on here and women around the world take very high doses of omega 6, evening primrose oil for example. It's puzzling...

Per wikipedia primrose contains GLA omega 6, another non-essential type of omega 6 not common to other oils.  The body can make it from LA, an essential omega 6, but it might not always do so.  It can make GLA into prostaglandin, but likewise might not always do so.  Prostaglandins are local signalers responsible for controlling a million different things, practically everything.  Other whole-body signalers often trigger the local release of prostaglandins.  Studies show that there might be moderate improvement of various conditions from taking GLA but the evidence is so-so.  LA omega 6 is in nearly every cooking oil, nut and other plant fat.  There's no reason to ever supplement it.  EPO probably is not useful in most young and/or healthy people who can make their own GLA, and extra GLA beyond your needs won't necessarily be made into more prostaglandin.

You do still need some omega 6 as an essential building material.  The goal isn't zero.   Your cell membranes, brain and so on are made of a mix of all essential and non-essential fatty acids, and cholesterol.  Sometimes emulsifiers too like choline and inositol.  I've heard mixed information on whether or not omegas affect inflammation or not, so I don't know what to think there.  But you need omega 6 either way.  The 4:1 omega 6:omega 3 ratio is actually pretty low and hard to obtain.  If you consume a several tbsp. of nuts and/or a few tbsp. cooking oil/plant fat (pastries, other baked items, etc.) in a day it takes 3,000 mg omega 3s just to hit 4:1.

[NaturalLady31]

The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 should be *at most* 4:1.  Between 1:1 and 4:1 actually.  So you need some omega 6 but it's common to get too much.  Actually up to 4:1 is ideal, not the upper limit.  Up to 10:1 isn't too bad even though it isn't ideal.  More than that could be trouble.

There's something that I don't understand. I wanted to start a new thread about this but I'll ask you here Surferjoe and everyone reading this.

If omega 6 is responsible for inflammation why on earth is the "ideal" ratio 4:1? Shouldn't it be other way around, shouldn't we consume more omega 3s (anti-inflammatory)? Why would we want more inflammation and risk illnesses and more harm to our bodies? I've actually come across a couple of sites and some members on here also stated that we should consume more fish oil/omega 3s instead. 

And yet so many members on here and women around the world take very high doses of omega 6, evening primrose oil for example. It's puzzling...

Per wikipedia primrose contains GLA omega 6, another non-essential type of omega 6 not common to other oils.  The body can make it from LA, an essential omega 6, but it might always do so.  It can make GLA into prostaglandin, but likewise might not always do so.  Prostaglandins are local signalers responsible for controlling a million different things, practically everything.  Other whole-body signalers often trigger the local release of prostaglandins.  Studies show that there might be moderate improvement of various conditions from taking GLA but the evidence is so-so.  LA omega 6 is in nearly every cooking oil, nut and other plant fat.  There's no reason to ever supplement it.  EPO probably is not useful in most young and/or healthy people who can make their own GLA, and extra GLA beyond your needs won't necessarily be made into more prostaglandin.

You do still need some omega 6 as an essential building material.  The goal isn't zero.   Your cell membranes, brain and so on are made of a mix of all essential and non-essential fatty acids, and cholesterol.  Sometimes emulsifiers too like choline and inositol.  I've heard mixed information on whether or not omegas affect inflammation or not, so I don't know what to think there.  But you need omega 6 either way.  The 4:1 omega 6:omega 3 ratio is actually pretty low and hard to obtain.  If you consume a several tbsp. of nuts and/or a few tbsp. cooking oil/plant fat (pastries, other baked items, etc.) in a day it takes 3,000 mg omega 3s just to hit 4:1.

So, since our relative "exposure" to omega 6 via nuts, oils, etc. is already substantial, it would make sense for most of us to simply supplement with just omega 3's to balance things out.  I'm no expert, but almost all information I've ever read states that cultures who ingest more omega 3 from fatty fish and other sources, have fewer incidences of inflammatory diseases.

[surferjoe2007]

The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 should be *at most* 4:1.  Between 1:1 and 4:1 actually.  So you need some omega 6 but it's common to get too much.  Actually up to 4:1 is ideal, not the upper limit.  Up to 10:1 isn't too bad even though it isn't ideal.  More than that could be trouble.

There's something that I don't understand. I wanted to start a new thread about this but I'll ask you here Surferjoe and everyone reading this.

If omega 6 is responsible for inflammation why on earth is the "ideal" ratio 4:1? Shouldn't it be other way around, shouldn't we consume more omega 3s (anti-inflammatory)? Why would we want more inflammation and risk illnesses and more harm to our bodies? I've actually come across a couple of sites and some members on here also stated that we should consume more fish oil/omega 3s instead. 

And yet so many members on here and women around the world take very high doses of omega 6, evening primrose oil for example. It's puzzling...

Per wikipedia primrose contains GLA omega 6, another non-essential type of omega 6 not common to other oils.  The body can make it from LA, an essential omega 6, but it might always do so.  It can make GLA into prostaglandin, but likewise might not always do so.  Prostaglandins are local signalers responsible for controlling a million different things, practically everything.  Other whole-body signalers often trigger the local release of prostaglandins.  Studies show that there might be moderate improvement of various conditions from taking GLA but the evidence is so-so.  LA omega 6 is in nearly every cooking oil, nut and other plant fat.  There's no reason to ever supplement it.  EPO probably is not useful in most young and/or healthy people who can make their own GLA, and extra GLA beyond your needs won't necessarily be made into more prostaglandin.

You do still need some omega 6 as an essential building material.  The goal isn't zero.   Your cell membranes, brain and so on are made of a mix of all essential and non-essential fatty acids, and cholesterol.  Sometimes emulsifiers too like choline and inositol.  I've heard mixed information on whether or not omegas affect inflammation or not, so I don't know what to think there.  But you need omega 6 either way.  The 4:1 omega 6:omega 3 ratio is actually pretty low and hard to obtain.  If you consume a several tbsp. of nuts and/or a few tbsp. cooking oil/plant fat (pastries, other baked items, etc.) in a day it takes 3,000 mg omega 3s just to hit 4:1.

So, since our relative "exposure" to omega 6 via nuts, oils, etc. is already substantial, it would make sense for most of us to simply supplement with just omega 3's to balance things out.  I'm no expert, but almost all information I've ever read states that cultures who ingest more omega 3 from fatty fish and other sources, have fewer incidences of inflammatory diseases.

Yes and limit plant fats to the healthiest of nuts or to those with a better fatty acid balance.  A handful or so of almonds and/or sunflower seeds for vitamin E.  It's hard to get enough natural vitamin E any other way, and alpha-tocopherol alone (from supplements) isn't the same as getting the entire set of molecules.  Pumpkin seeds and sesame seeds (including tahini & hummus) are loaded with nutrients too.  But these are also high in omega 6.  Can't remember any other high nutrient  ones off the top of my head. 

Oily stuff with better fatty acid balances include: chia seeds, flax seeds/oil, macademia nut oil, coconut oil.  Walnuts/walnut oil and olive oil are ok.

Chia & flax: ALAs.
Macademia: omega 7 & 9 (non-essential), super low omega 6.
Coconut oil: omega 9 (non-essential), no omega 6.
Walnut oil: high omega 6 but has ALAs too.
Olive oil: omega 9 (non-essential), low omega 6, tiny bit of ALA.

Avoid soybean oil, corn oil and most other oils as they are high in omega 6.