13-02-2016, 12:21 PM
How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007 at 7:38 AM LL (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
I have low estridiol levels, and would like suggestions for how I can increase the levels, aside from the BCP (which I was on for 10 years and I won't go on again). This would help my breasts and then I could work with BE from there. My breasts were bigger at this weight when I was younger. Any suggestions? Foods, etc? My body fat levels are fine, and I eat enough fat now too.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 7:44 AM
A quick note: soy foods aren't an option. I have to avoid it.
I'm just wondering what could be happening to create low levels of estradiol in the first place. This has been a problem for me since my early 20s.
Linz
(no login)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 12:45 PM
Hi there Lillea,
I definitely read once that along with increasing progesterone, VITEX increases estridiol levels. Afraid I don't have a link, but may be worth an internet search. I know people must be getting sick of all the 'Vitex miracle herb' posts, but there you are!
I read somewhere that estridiol was the hormone that was higher in women with large breasts compared to small breasted ladies. So I think you're maybe on the right track of trying to remedy it!
How's the heat theory working for you - sos to change subject.
L x
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 10:06 PM
Wow, I kept reading that VITEX lowered estrogen levels, which benefits many women due to estrogen dominance. I would love to find a solution to this.
Can anyone tell me if it truly can help raise estradiol?
I have only experimented a bit with the heat theory. I'm doing a lot of hypnosis now and some massage, too, with heat afterward.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:45 AM
faerycat
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 10:50 PM
Oooh Ooooh........have just found this.
ESTRONE is found in ESTRIOL is found in: Punica granatum - Pomegranates Humulus lupulus - Hops Elaeis guineensis, Phoenix spp - Dates Glycyrrhiza glabra - Licorice Malus sylvesris - Apple Phaseolus vulgaris - Green Bean Salix caprea - Willow Phaseolus vulgaris - Green Beans ESTRADIOL is found in: and trace amounts in the grains oat, rice, and barley. Phaseolus vulgaris - Green Bean Humulus lupulus - Hops
http://www.homeherbs.com/0/information/5...ogens.html
Will spend more time reading over that tomorrow.........too tired tonight :-{
Sleep well!
=~_~= x
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 10:59 PM
Hi!
Thank you!
It's too bad that it's in grains, but I had low levels even when my grain consumption was high. My levels are higher now, if anything.
Moon
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 11:26 PM
As far as I know vitex doesn't lower estrogens, but increase them, because estrogen dominance is actually too low estrogens, but even lower progesterone.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 11:35 PM
Thanks, Moon. Whenever I read about people who are benefitting from Vitex, they seem to have such different problems than I have. I continue to have problems with androgens (hairyness, acne). I don't have dry skin or other low estrogen symptoms. I'm confused about what to do, and wonder if I should get tested by an ND or something like that.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 11:37 PM
Whenever I have been tested by a regular MD, my testosterone levels was normal, estradiol was low normal and progesterone was normal. Not comprehensive testing, of course. An ND would be more thourough.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:46 AM
jessica
(no login)
?
February 5 2007, 9:55 PM
Im new to all these supplements. Does Vitex help breast growth for people with high testoterone? Im wondering if i should add it to my program or not...
this is confussing. some sources say yes some say no
LL
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Vitex good for someone with androgen excess?
February 6 2007, 7:04 AM
I'm wondering the same thing that Jessica is. Can anyone direct us to information that might help?
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 6 2007, 7:05 AM
I should clarify by saying that I don't have high testosterone levels as far as I know, but too much is being converted to DHT most likely.
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 6 2007, 2:54 PM
* Galega (Goat's Rue) could be a good option. It works at the hypothalamus level like Vitex does, but does so with estrogen receptors and insulin receptors.
Another way to help raise estrogen systemically is to make existing estrogen receptors more sensitive. Estrogen receptors become more sensitive when deprived of estrogen. Your own natural levels during the cycle accomplish this when estrogen levels drop during the last week, stay down and then shoot up by mid cycle. You could help this by taking estrogenic herbs like fenugreek, fennel, Goat's Rue, and Red Clover in parallel with your natural levels. For those with naturally high levels, this might be more of a roller coaster, but for someone whose levels are lower, it *might* just be what you need. The cycling of the herbs should keep you from stalling, naturally.
Testosterone + Aromatase = Estrogen. Testosterone is *needed* to create estrogen. You may need to raise your testosterone levels to accomplish this.
Make existing testosterone more eficient by disallowing it to go elsewhere. (I don't see the other post where someone wanted to know how to raise testosterone, but that might also be a good thread to read):
Use Saw Palmetto to block the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Use Avena Sativa (wild oats) and Stinging Nettle Root extract for the purpose of binding to Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), thus keeping more testosterone free to be converted to estrogen.
Avoid too much zinc. It is an aromatase inhibitor in high doses. 15 mg per day for women is needed, but more than 30 mg a day would likely get in the way.
Avoid too much Flax Seed Oil. The lignands are aromatase inhibitors.
Get some regular resistence exercise, like working with weights. But not so much that you lose weight. You want to increase your lean muscle mass. This will trigger testosterone.
If you start getting more hairy and/or get acne. It worked. But to get the testosterone to convert to estrogen is not known, other than the possibility of helping the production of aromatase. Anything with GLA in it like Borage oil or Evening Primrose oil should help with that. You can also back off on some of the above.
Any exact combination of the above specific to your system will only be accomplished through trial and error - once you know what works for you and what doesn't. You will need about 3 months to establish this.
Good luck,
Wahaika
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 6 2007, 11:12 PM
Thanks, Wakaika!
The flax oil I use doesn't have lignands, as far as I know (it doesn't list them on the label). This is the one I use:
https://shopping.florahealth.com/products.asp?categoryid=106&productid=46
They have a high lignand version, too, which I avoid.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 7 2007, 12:37 PM
Although individual herbs are the way to go so tweaking can be done, this product, for milk production, is very BEish with it's ingredients!
http://www.motherlove.com/product_more_milk_special.php
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 7 2007, 12:51 PM
And here's a goat's rue product:
http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php
LL
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A reply from Motherlove about goat's rue
February 7 2007, 9:41 PM
Would anyone like to comment on the reply Mother Love (www.motherove.com) creator gave me about Goat's rue? Is she most likely wrong?
Dear Mother Love,
I'm curious if any of your products have resulted in breast growth
overall.
Kind regards,
Lillea
Hello,
Yes, Motherlove's Goat's Rue does increase mammary tissue in lactating and
non-lactating women. Once the product is no longer used, however, breast
size will decrease.
Thanks for contacting Motherlove!
Judith Goldfain
www.motherlove.com
Lillea
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 7 2007, 10:42 PM
I wrote to her again to ask her why she thinks that gains aren't permanent with goat's rue. I imagine that goat's rue alone wouldn't be enough, but I wanted to ask her anyway. This is her reply:
This is what we have been told - about breast size returning to "normal". I
personally used GR for about 2 months, saw an increase, stopped using it,
and my size decreased. Women using this product do not inform us of their
experiences with GR. We do not know why, or even how, GR works, or why any
increase can be lost.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 8 2007, 3:47 AM
Even women with naturally bigger breasts, let alone those who grew them, are going to lose some of it in cases where there is *rapid* weight loss for some reason. Some women get sick and lose weight. I think it is because the body has an order of priority that it follows where fat surrounding organs is taken off first. Has anyone noticed that when you put on weight that it goes to the breasts last, but comes off first?
With goat's rue, I have read that it works at the hypothalamic level to stimulate "steroid hormones" therefore estrogen. But if it is temporary, why not use it to grow, and then use fenugreek to backfill?
Has anyone looked into the use of DIM (diindolylmethane) to raise estrogen levels? I was asked about this, but I am always a little leery of something with the word methane in it, but it seems to be safe from what I have read. I cannot find the mechanism of how it works.
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 8 2007, 6:46 AM
I'd like to know more about how to use goat's rue to grow and fenugreek to backfill.
Can goat's rue be used in a massage mix?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Anna
(Login anna-a)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 8 2007, 7:45 AM
Wahaika,
Ask Michelle Choi about the DIM, she used it and knows how it works
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Goat's rue
February 9 2007, 12:39 AM
Has anyone here used goat's rue?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 9 2007, 1:47 AM
Lillea,
Using Fenugreek to backfill anything, including goat's rue, is to use them both for a time, at dosages that make sense. Then when you are ready to get off goat's rue, you decrease it slowly while increasing fenugreek. Then, if you can, get a little more growth using the routine that is "non goat's rue" and go a little past your target/goal. You may go down a little bit no matter what you use. Also, there is no guarantee that anything will be permanent. It usually is, but not always. But a little maintenance is a small price to pay.
You can use goat's rue internally like any other herb. But you might have to make your own capsules. You can buy it from Ameriherb(?) or other places. I have not looked into the price for goat's rue extract, but I am pretty sure that Vitamin Research Products carries it. vrp.com.
You can use goat's rue externally by making an infusion (tea) out of it and using that topically. Another way is to steep it in olive oil, but with no heat, just time. This works well as a topical.
One company used goat's rue, way back when, called HBA and they had a great reputation. My wife has used it externally as a topical using the olive oil technique. If you're interested I'll post her recipe for it. You will need dark glass bottles. I know other women who have used it through HBA's product and did very well.
Wahaika
Ann5
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 9 2007, 2:25 AM
Wahaika,
You mentioned your wife used oil infused goat's rue. Did she do it for NBE?
If so, did it work for her? Also, if you don't mind sharing some knowledge....I made some fennel oil a few days ago. I roasted the fennel a little to get the aroma out of it (not browning it though). Then grinded it. Added it to some warmed up olive oil and let it sit for 3 days. Each day I mixed it. Did I do anything wrong? Can this method be done with fenugreek? Also, if I don't have any dark bottled jars to keep the oil in, could I just use the clear one that I have and keep it in a dark place? Sorry for so many questions at once.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 9 2007, 2:40 AM
Yes, Wahaika, I would like the recipe.
I would prefer to use things externally whenever possible to avoid accumulating fat anywhere aside from my breasts.
What do you think about this goat's rue tincture as a possibility?
http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 2:00 AM
Ann5,
Yep, she used it for NBE. It worked just as well as fenugreek, which was very good.
I'm not an expert on making oils from seeds, but I do know that the best way to do it is to cold press the oils and juice from the seeds. Roasting/cooking them would surely destroy the enzymes.
It can be done with any seed or nut. As far as the glass goes, I don't know what difference it makes other than dark is just better. However, if you are pressing the oil and juice out of the seed, then the reason for steeping it no longer exists. You either steep or press or make an infusion or decoction. You can make extracts, tinctures, etc. But pressing the seeds would be the most efficient. You would get the most out of it and in the most potent form. I would say that the best way to use it is to press the seeds before each use and then use the oil/juice like you would if you were using an extract. Ramp it up to find what dosage works the best. Use a dropper or capsules to standardize your dosage.
Wahaika
Teresina
(Login Teresina)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 2:09 AM
A bit OT:
Lillea, did you ever get a response from the people selling the accupressure e-book? I wrote them days ago, too, and never heard back! I still can't check out. You'd think they'd notice that no sales were coming in and fix things, right?
Also, I'm so sorry that I haven't replied to your e-mail yet. My Yahoo account is down and I'm not sure why. Hoping it will be up by tonight.
You were most helpful and there are some things you mentioned that I'd love to talk more about!
Kate T.
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 2:12 AM
Lillea,
Here is the recipe:
1/2 cup Olive Oil + 1/2 cup Fenugreek + 24 (1000mg) Borage Oil Caps steeped for one week minimum before first use. (The longer the better)
Get 2 8oz containers. Steep one while using the other.
Shake well once per day at least.
Apply low heat for 10 minutes. Massage in. Apply heat for 15 min. Could follow up with 2 drops (but no more) of DMSO before heat is applied the second time. If not using DMSO, sleep with the concoction on all night, if possible.
http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php
This looks like a good one for BE. And it's about the only one out there too. It also takes the size of women into account, which is good. It would be good to know what the maximum safe dosages are of this particular product so that you could ramp it up if necessary. If you are taking it with other things as part of a bigger routine, then the max recommended dosages on the bottle could be enough, but be able to adjust up if necessary. I also did not see what the strength was. Maybe that would be a good question for them. I am more in favor of non alcoholic extracts, but this one looks like a good one if you don't mind the alcohol.
Wahaika
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 5:22 AM
Hi Kate,
I haven't heard back from the acupressure site yet either! I wonder when they'll figure out that they're losing customers, too! I look forward to your e-mail eventually!
Hi Wahaika,
How much should be used of the mix per massage?
I am currently massaging with aloe gel and Green Bush fenugreek extract. Sometimes I add a dash of fennel extract. I'm also taking SP extract internally. I started all of this at the end of last month when my period began. I'm Novelia on the BE board. I bought some DMSO and wonder about using that instead of the aloe sometime.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:49 AM
Moon
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 10:14 AM
About goat's rue growth not being permanant - we had to opportunity to observe in practice many times that breast growth often isn't permanent IF it's achieved very rapidly and then the person goes off herbs suddenly, cuts off all herbs and massages at once. But if one does things gradually, it tends to stay. It's logical that any abrupt change on the organism causes an abrupt reponse. So if you go off herbs gradually, I think there's no reason to think goat's rue growth wouldn't be permanent. Also ilea, take in consideration that the lady you emailed wasn't a NBE expert, people who don't do NBE often don't have the right information.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 10:31 AM
Hi Moon!
Yes, she doesn't know the truth about BE I wrote back to tell her about this forum, but I haven't heard back from her yet. Today I wrote again to ask about the potency of her goat's rue product, as Wahaika mentioned, so hopefully she'll reply to that.
I feel so happy when I think about having larger breasts. It will be great.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:49 AM
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 4:09 PM
Lillea,
The way to measure any amount for massage is by covering the entire area. Once you figure out what works best then just use that same amount each time.
If you buy the extract then you can just add it once in a while like you do the fennel.
Wahaika
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 4:14 PM
Moon,
You hit the nail on the head. I had forgotten about that. The practice of growing about 1/2 inch beyond your goal, in anticipation of natural shrinkage at the end of a routine, goes with it. Great observation!
Wahaika
Surf
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EVE MEMBERS
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 9:20 PM
I found this thread to be very interesting. Thank you, everyone, for all your inputs!
I found this on goat's rue - note the reference to fenugreek!!! (in the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph)
Goats rue, sometimes called Holy Hay, is indigenous to southern Europe and western Asia and was first mentioned by dairy farmer Gillet-Damitte in 1873 in a letter to the French Academy in which he described milk production increases in his cows of between 35-50 percent when given this herb. Drs. Cerisoli and Millbank subsequently confirmed empirical evidence that goats rue is indeed a powerful galactogogue.(1) Goats rue is also reputed to increase breast tissue, though how it might do so is not well understood.
In addition to its lactogenic properties, goats rue comes from the same family as fenugreek and is also considered to have anti-diabetic properties. Goats Rue contains galegine, a guanidine compound from which phenformin, the precursor drug to metformin (Glucophage), was derived. Metformin is considered an insulin receptor sensitizer and one anti-aging researcher believes that it may have a beneficial effect on other resistant hormone receptors as well.(2) Because metformin has been found beneficial in many cases of polycystic ovary syndrome, goats rue may be an especially appropriate galactogogue herb as it may have properties that address underlying problems.
A 1999 study also reported a weight-loss effect of goats rue upon mice (test amount used was 10% of dietary weight) that was associated with the lowering of glucose.(3) Other actions attributed to goats rue include being a diuretc, diaphoretic, and emmenagogue.
Despite the positive reports on cattle, goats rue is considered somewhat controversial due to documented toxicity in sheep who grazed upon it. The most plausible explanation for this is simply the variability of response in individual animals, though the grazing habits of sheep has also been questioned. A Dutch resource suggests that the toxic components may be concentrated mostly in the roots until after flowering and that timing of grazing or harvesting may affect overall toxic potential.(4) At the least, having goats rue as a large proportion of the diet as opposed to a small amount may also make a difference in effects. Goats rue remains a popular galactogogue herb for French women and no problems in humans have been reported either anecdotally or in the literature. Herbalists with actual clinical experience with goats rue remain comfortable with its use.
http://www.bfar.org/goatsrue.shtml
Charity
(no login)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 11 2007, 2:07 AM
It seems very unclear on what vitex agnus castus or chasteberry does to estradiol levels. I think the jury is still out on that one.
Kelly
(no login)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 11 2007, 3:17 AM
I'd say the same about DIM (Di-Indoly Methane). It's said to aid estrogen metabolism, but it's not too clear of what exactly that does to levels of estrogen in the body. I think the jury is out here also.
February 1 2007 at 7:38 AM LL (Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
I have low estridiol levels, and would like suggestions for how I can increase the levels, aside from the BCP (which I was on for 10 years and I won't go on again). This would help my breasts and then I could work with BE from there. My breasts were bigger at this weight when I was younger. Any suggestions? Foods, etc? My body fat levels are fine, and I eat enough fat now too.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 7:44 AM
A quick note: soy foods aren't an option. I have to avoid it.
I'm just wondering what could be happening to create low levels of estradiol in the first place. This has been a problem for me since my early 20s.
Linz
(no login)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 12:45 PM
Hi there Lillea,
I definitely read once that along with increasing progesterone, VITEX increases estridiol levels. Afraid I don't have a link, but may be worth an internet search. I know people must be getting sick of all the 'Vitex miracle herb' posts, but there you are!
I read somewhere that estridiol was the hormone that was higher in women with large breasts compared to small breasted ladies. So I think you're maybe on the right track of trying to remedy it!
How's the heat theory working for you - sos to change subject.
L x
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 10:06 PM
Wow, I kept reading that VITEX lowered estrogen levels, which benefits many women due to estrogen dominance. I would love to find a solution to this.
Can anyone tell me if it truly can help raise estradiol?
I have only experimented a bit with the heat theory. I'm doing a lot of hypnosis now and some massage, too, with heat afterward.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:45 AM
faerycat
(Login faerycat)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 10:50 PM
Oooh Ooooh........have just found this.
ESTRONE is found in ESTRIOL is found in: Punica granatum - Pomegranates Humulus lupulus - Hops Elaeis guineensis, Phoenix spp - Dates Glycyrrhiza glabra - Licorice Malus sylvesris - Apple Phaseolus vulgaris - Green Bean Salix caprea - Willow Phaseolus vulgaris - Green Beans ESTRADIOL is found in: and trace amounts in the grains oat, rice, and barley. Phaseolus vulgaris - Green Bean Humulus lupulus - Hops
http://www.homeherbs.com/0/information/5...ogens.html
Will spend more time reading over that tomorrow.........too tired tonight :-{
Sleep well!
=~_~= x
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 10:59 PM
Hi!
Thank you!
It's too bad that it's in grains, but I had low levels even when my grain consumption was high. My levels are higher now, if anything.
Moon
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 11:26 PM
As far as I know vitex doesn't lower estrogens, but increase them, because estrogen dominance is actually too low estrogens, but even lower progesterone.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 11:35 PM
Thanks, Moon. Whenever I read about people who are benefitting from Vitex, they seem to have such different problems than I have. I continue to have problems with androgens (hairyness, acne). I don't have dry skin or other low estrogen symptoms. I'm confused about what to do, and wonder if I should get tested by an ND or something like that.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 1 2007, 11:37 PM
Whenever I have been tested by a regular MD, my testosterone levels was normal, estradiol was low normal and progesterone was normal. Not comprehensive testing, of course. An ND would be more thourough.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:46 AM
jessica
(no login)
?
February 5 2007, 9:55 PM
Im new to all these supplements. Does Vitex help breast growth for people with high testoterone? Im wondering if i should add it to my program or not...
this is confussing. some sources say yes some say no
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Vitex good for someone with androgen excess?
February 6 2007, 7:04 AM
I'm wondering the same thing that Jessica is. Can anyone direct us to information that might help?
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 6 2007, 7:05 AM
I should clarify by saying that I don't have high testosterone levels as far as I know, but too much is being converted to DHT most likely.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 6 2007, 2:54 PM
* Galega (Goat's Rue) could be a good option. It works at the hypothalamus level like Vitex does, but does so with estrogen receptors and insulin receptors.
Another way to help raise estrogen systemically is to make existing estrogen receptors more sensitive. Estrogen receptors become more sensitive when deprived of estrogen. Your own natural levels during the cycle accomplish this when estrogen levels drop during the last week, stay down and then shoot up by mid cycle. You could help this by taking estrogenic herbs like fenugreek, fennel, Goat's Rue, and Red Clover in parallel with your natural levels. For those with naturally high levels, this might be more of a roller coaster, but for someone whose levels are lower, it *might* just be what you need. The cycling of the herbs should keep you from stalling, naturally.
Testosterone + Aromatase = Estrogen. Testosterone is *needed* to create estrogen. You may need to raise your testosterone levels to accomplish this.
Make existing testosterone more eficient by disallowing it to go elsewhere. (I don't see the other post where someone wanted to know how to raise testosterone, but that might also be a good thread to read):
Use Saw Palmetto to block the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Use Avena Sativa (wild oats) and Stinging Nettle Root extract for the purpose of binding to Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), thus keeping more testosterone free to be converted to estrogen.
Avoid too much zinc. It is an aromatase inhibitor in high doses. 15 mg per day for women is needed, but more than 30 mg a day would likely get in the way.
Avoid too much Flax Seed Oil. The lignands are aromatase inhibitors.
Get some regular resistence exercise, like working with weights. But not so much that you lose weight. You want to increase your lean muscle mass. This will trigger testosterone.
If you start getting more hairy and/or get acne. It worked. But to get the testosterone to convert to estrogen is not known, other than the possibility of helping the production of aromatase. Anything with GLA in it like Borage oil or Evening Primrose oil should help with that. You can also back off on some of the above.
Any exact combination of the above specific to your system will only be accomplished through trial and error - once you know what works for you and what doesn't. You will need about 3 months to establish this.
Good luck,
Wahaika
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 6 2007, 11:12 PM
Thanks, Wakaika!
The flax oil I use doesn't have lignands, as far as I know (it doesn't list them on the label). This is the one I use:
https://shopping.florahealth.com/products.asp?categoryid=106&productid=46
They have a high lignand version, too, which I avoid.
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 7 2007, 12:37 PM
Although individual herbs are the way to go so tweaking can be done, this product, for milk production, is very BEish with it's ingredients!
http://www.motherlove.com/product_more_milk_special.php
LL
(Login Lillea)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 7 2007, 12:51 PM
And here's a goat's rue product:
http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php
LL
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A reply from Motherlove about goat's rue
February 7 2007, 9:41 PM
Would anyone like to comment on the reply Mother Love (www.motherove.com) creator gave me about Goat's rue? Is she most likely wrong?
Dear Mother Love,
I'm curious if any of your products have resulted in breast growth
overall.
Kind regards,
Lillea
Hello,
Yes, Motherlove's Goat's Rue does increase mammary tissue in lactating and
non-lactating women. Once the product is no longer used, however, breast
size will decrease.
Thanks for contacting Motherlove!
Judith Goldfain
www.motherlove.com
Lillea
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 7 2007, 10:42 PM
I wrote to her again to ask her why she thinks that gains aren't permanent with goat's rue. I imagine that goat's rue alone wouldn't be enough, but I wanted to ask her anyway. This is her reply:
This is what we have been told - about breast size returning to "normal". I
personally used GR for about 2 months, saw an increase, stopped using it,
and my size decreased. Women using this product do not inform us of their
experiences with GR. We do not know why, or even how, GR works, or why any
increase can be lost.
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 8 2007, 3:47 AM
Even women with naturally bigger breasts, let alone those who grew them, are going to lose some of it in cases where there is *rapid* weight loss for some reason. Some women get sick and lose weight. I think it is because the body has an order of priority that it follows where fat surrounding organs is taken off first. Has anyone noticed that when you put on weight that it goes to the breasts last, but comes off first?
With goat's rue, I have read that it works at the hypothalamic level to stimulate "steroid hormones" therefore estrogen. But if it is temporary, why not use it to grow, and then use fenugreek to backfill?
Has anyone looked into the use of DIM (diindolylmethane) to raise estrogen levels? I was asked about this, but I am always a little leery of something with the word methane in it, but it seems to be safe from what I have read. I cannot find the mechanism of how it works.
LL
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 8 2007, 6:46 AM
I'd like to know more about how to use goat's rue to grow and fenugreek to backfill.
Can goat's rue be used in a massage mix?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Anna
(Login anna-a)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 8 2007, 7:45 AM
Wahaika,
Ask Michelle Choi about the DIM, she used it and knows how it works
LL
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Goat's rue
February 9 2007, 12:39 AM
Has anyone here used goat's rue?
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 9 2007, 1:47 AM
Lillea,
Using Fenugreek to backfill anything, including goat's rue, is to use them both for a time, at dosages that make sense. Then when you are ready to get off goat's rue, you decrease it slowly while increasing fenugreek. Then, if you can, get a little more growth using the routine that is "non goat's rue" and go a little past your target/goal. You may go down a little bit no matter what you use. Also, there is no guarantee that anything will be permanent. It usually is, but not always. But a little maintenance is a small price to pay.
You can use goat's rue internally like any other herb. But you might have to make your own capsules. You can buy it from Ameriherb(?) or other places. I have not looked into the price for goat's rue extract, but I am pretty sure that Vitamin Research Products carries it. vrp.com.
You can use goat's rue externally by making an infusion (tea) out of it and using that topically. Another way is to steep it in olive oil, but with no heat, just time. This works well as a topical.
One company used goat's rue, way back when, called HBA and they had a great reputation. My wife has used it externally as a topical using the olive oil technique. If you're interested I'll post her recipe for it. You will need dark glass bottles. I know other women who have used it through HBA's product and did very well.
Wahaika
Ann5
(Login Ann5)
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 9 2007, 2:25 AM
Wahaika,
You mentioned your wife used oil infused goat's rue. Did she do it for NBE?
If so, did it work for her? Also, if you don't mind sharing some knowledge....I made some fennel oil a few days ago. I roasted the fennel a little to get the aroma out of it (not browning it though). Then grinded it. Added it to some warmed up olive oil and let it sit for 3 days. Each day I mixed it. Did I do anything wrong? Can this method be done with fenugreek? Also, if I don't have any dark bottled jars to keep the oil in, could I just use the clear one that I have and keep it in a dark place? Sorry for so many questions at once.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 9 2007, 2:40 AM
Yes, Wahaika, I would like the recipe.
I would prefer to use things externally whenever possible to avoid accumulating fat anywhere aside from my breasts.
What do you think about this goat's rue tincture as a possibility?
http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:48 AM
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 2:00 AM
Ann5,
Yep, she used it for NBE. It worked just as well as fenugreek, which was very good.
I'm not an expert on making oils from seeds, but I do know that the best way to do it is to cold press the oils and juice from the seeds. Roasting/cooking them would surely destroy the enzymes.
It can be done with any seed or nut. As far as the glass goes, I don't know what difference it makes other than dark is just better. However, if you are pressing the oil and juice out of the seed, then the reason for steeping it no longer exists. You either steep or press or make an infusion or decoction. You can make extracts, tinctures, etc. But pressing the seeds would be the most efficient. You would get the most out of it and in the most potent form. I would say that the best way to use it is to press the seeds before each use and then use the oil/juice like you would if you were using an extract. Ramp it up to find what dosage works the best. Use a dropper or capsules to standardize your dosage.
Wahaika
Teresina
(Login Teresina)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 2:09 AM
A bit OT:
Lillea, did you ever get a response from the people selling the accupressure e-book? I wrote them days ago, too, and never heard back! I still can't check out. You'd think they'd notice that no sales were coming in and fix things, right?
Also, I'm so sorry that I haven't replied to your e-mail yet. My Yahoo account is down and I'm not sure why. Hoping it will be up by tonight.
You were most helpful and there are some things you mentioned that I'd love to talk more about!Kate T.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 2:12 AM
Lillea,
Here is the recipe:
1/2 cup Olive Oil + 1/2 cup Fenugreek + 24 (1000mg) Borage Oil Caps steeped for one week minimum before first use. (The longer the better)
Get 2 8oz containers. Steep one while using the other.
Shake well once per day at least.
Apply low heat for 10 minutes. Massage in. Apply heat for 15 min. Could follow up with 2 drops (but no more) of DMSO before heat is applied the second time. If not using DMSO, sleep with the concoction on all night, if possible.
http://www.motherlove.com/product_goats_rue.php
This looks like a good one for BE. And it's about the only one out there too. It also takes the size of women into account, which is good. It would be good to know what the maximum safe dosages are of this particular product so that you could ramp it up if necessary. If you are taking it with other things as part of a bigger routine, then the max recommended dosages on the bottle could be enough, but be able to adjust up if necessary. I also did not see what the strength was. Maybe that would be a good question for them. I am more in favor of non alcoholic extracts, but this one looks like a good one if you don't mind the alcohol.
Wahaika
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 5:22 AM
Hi Kate,
I haven't heard back from the acupressure site yet either! I wonder when they'll figure out that they're losing customers, too! I look forward to your e-mail eventually!
Hi Wahaika,
How much should be used of the mix per massage?
I am currently massaging with aloe gel and Green Bush fenugreek extract. Sometimes I add a dash of fennel extract. I'm also taking SP extract internally. I started all of this at the end of last month when my period began. I'm Novelia on the BE board.
I bought some DMSO and wonder about using that instead of the aloe sometime.This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:49 AM
Moon
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Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 10:14 AM
About goat's rue growth not being permanant - we had to opportunity to observe in practice many times that breast growth often isn't permanent IF it's achieved very rapidly and then the person goes off herbs suddenly, cuts off all herbs and massages at once. But if one does things gradually, it tends to stay. It's logical that any abrupt change on the organism causes an abrupt reponse. So if you go off herbs gradually, I think there's no reason to think goat's rue growth wouldn't be permanent. Also ilea, take in consideration that the lady you emailed wasn't a NBE expert, people who don't do NBE often don't have the right information.
LL
(Login Lillea)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 10:31 AM
Hi Moon!
Yes, she doesn't know the truth about BE
I wrote back to tell her about this forum, but I haven't heard back from her yet. Today I wrote again to ask about the potency of her goat's rue product, as Wahaika mentioned, so hopefully she'll reply to that. I feel so happy when I think about having larger breasts. It will be great.
This message has been edited by Lillea on Dec 24, 2007 7:49 AM
Wahaika
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How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 4:09 PM
Lillea,
The way to measure any amount for massage is by covering the entire area. Once you figure out what works best then just use that same amount each time.
If you buy the extract then you can just add it once in a while like you do the fennel.
Wahaika
Wahaika
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SENIOR MEMBER
How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 4:14 PM
Moon,
You hit the nail on the head. I had forgotten about that. The practice of growing about 1/2 inch beyond your goal, in anticipation of natural shrinkage at the end of a routine, goes with it. Great observation!
Wahaika
Surf
(Login Surf.)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 10 2007, 9:20 PM
I found this thread to be very interesting. Thank you, everyone, for all your inputs!
I found this on goat's rue - note the reference to fenugreek!!! (in the 1st sentence of the 2nd paragraph)
Goats rue, sometimes called Holy Hay, is indigenous to southern Europe and western Asia and was first mentioned by dairy farmer Gillet-Damitte in 1873 in a letter to the French Academy in which he described milk production increases in his cows of between 35-50 percent when given this herb. Drs. Cerisoli and Millbank subsequently confirmed empirical evidence that goats rue is indeed a powerful galactogogue.(1) Goats rue is also reputed to increase breast tissue, though how it might do so is not well understood.
In addition to its lactogenic properties, goats rue comes from the same family as fenugreek and is also considered to have anti-diabetic properties. Goats Rue contains galegine, a guanidine compound from which phenformin, the precursor drug to metformin (Glucophage), was derived. Metformin is considered an insulin receptor sensitizer and one anti-aging researcher believes that it may have a beneficial effect on other resistant hormone receptors as well.(2) Because metformin has been found beneficial in many cases of polycystic ovary syndrome, goats rue may be an especially appropriate galactogogue herb as it may have properties that address underlying problems.
A 1999 study also reported a weight-loss effect of goats rue upon mice (test amount used was 10% of dietary weight) that was associated with the lowering of glucose.(3) Other actions attributed to goats rue include being a diuretc, diaphoretic, and emmenagogue.
Despite the positive reports on cattle, goats rue is considered somewhat controversial due to documented toxicity in sheep who grazed upon it. The most plausible explanation for this is simply the variability of response in individual animals, though the grazing habits of sheep has also been questioned. A Dutch resource suggests that the toxic components may be concentrated mostly in the roots until after flowering and that timing of grazing or harvesting may affect overall toxic potential.(4) At the least, having goats rue as a large proportion of the diet as opposed to a small amount may also make a difference in effects. Goats rue remains a popular galactogogue herb for French women and no problems in humans have been reported either anecdotally or in the literature. Herbalists with actual clinical experience with goats rue remain comfortable with its use.
http://www.bfar.org/goatsrue.shtml
Charity
(no login)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 11 2007, 2:07 AM
It seems very unclear on what vitex agnus castus or chasteberry does to estradiol levels. I think the jury is still out on that one.
Kelly
(no login)
Re: How can increase estridiol levels naturally?
February 11 2007, 3:17 AM
I'd say the same about DIM (Di-Indoly Methane). It's said to aid estrogen metabolism, but it's not too clear of what exactly that does to levels of estrogen in the body. I think the jury is out here also.