[TibetanPrincess]

Sorry, guess I put my foot in my mouth again. My sincerest apologies.

Yeah, correction: HER.

[TibetanPrincess]

Goodness! I know what you mean. Its always taken like I'm talking about everyone, the defenses come up before many ( not all - I feel I must repeat it every time) realize I am talking about something specific.

Nothing truly ultimate about that... It does provide a decent bit of starter knowledge but it's no where near complete.

At least as far as I could tell from my cursory scan through it there's no blatant misinformation... it just claims to be more than it is.

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please stop being rude and disrespectful to the members here-

My Patience "with you" has run out.

You "will " change your behavior here-- do you understand!- this type of behavior will no longer be tolerated-

you have been given notice-

your friend the bitch
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Lets stop attacking each other http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=16057

How was that post the least bit rude or disrespectful? I certainly didn't attack ab101bab, nor the writer of the document whether it was her or not. It was a statement of analyses of the document shared. Yes, it was extremely concise without any sugar coating, but I never have been one to sugar coat. Too much sugar's bad for you.

Your immediate attack on me, however, was extremely mean spirited and hadn't a single iota of respect.

But since you all asked...

The BIGGEST piece of information it's missing is the VERY COMMON side effect of PM of causing an insulin spike. Since PM doesn't have any sugars this insulin attacks your existing blood sugar and can cause very severe hypoglycemic reactions (they're usually mild though). All temporary and very easily taken care of by simply being sure to eat something with around a gram of sugar when you take PM if you find you are prone to the severe ones.

This is, IMO, VITAL information, ESPECIALLY for new users of PM. Yet that article never mentions it once despite repeating itself about benefits a number of times.

ANYONE could have written a much more complete AND concise guide to PM than that.

For someone who's so insistent that there's a lot of "selling" of PM going on, I would have thought OSB'd JUMP at the omission.

Then again, OSB doesn't seem to know much and really just seems to be spreading misinformation and consistently attacking anyone who presents any facts to the contrary.

I may be getting a bit curt as late, but that's due largely to suddenly having to deal with a flood of misinformation, correcting it where I can, so hopefully it won't destroy anyone's health.

Your absolute insistence that estrogen and only estrogen is responsible for breast growth is honestly quite tiring. As I've said any number of times, if that were true, MtF transsexuals would NEVER have to turn to breast augmentation surgery. Yet the numbers say that the vast majority, in fact, do. Without it they would barely be out of an A cup. At least. Those who follow a conventional estrogen and anti-androgen but NO progesterone HRT plan. Add progesterone and suddenly they're up to B's and C's. Add cycling of doses and... There's not enough statistical information to prove anything with regards to that, but what there is seems to indicate we could actually stand to get every bit as large as we want to.

That same insistence is also quite worrying. You obviously know nothing of the intricacies of female hormone balance. If estrogen and estrogen only is constantly high VERY BAD THINGS HAPPEN.

Your insistence that boiling is the only way to remove plant toxins and that only the water insoluble parts of the plant are toxic is also quite troubling. If anyone else actually believes that they could wind up with some serious heavy metal poisoning because if there are heavy metals, they DON'T BOIL OUT. And heavy metals are extremely toxic. On the other hand, they're destroying the fiber which is extremely important for the proper functioning of our bodies waste and toxin removal.

And your insistence that nothing gets through the skin barrier isn't really all that troubling, but it certainly does say a lot about how outdated any knowledge you MIGHT have is. And it is somewhat troubling as well, because those toxins you're so on about? A lot of them get in through the skin. And even more get in under the nails. A lot of the makeup that many girls are wearing is killing them.

So yes. I might be getting a bit more curt than usual as late. But I'm ramping up my progesterone and my estrogens are falling, and when I do that my temper always does seem to get a bit shorter for some reason... And then there's YOU.

I'm sorry that the science behind NBE, nor even NBE itself, ain't simple. But it's NOT. Honestly nothing in this world is nearly so simple as humans tend to wish it to be.

The KISS principle isn't that things are naturally simple so you should keep it that way, it's that things are so infinitely complex that adding even just a single additional variable increases the complexity of a system by MANY times. Therefore, no matter how intelligent someone is, handling more than a few variables will MAKE them "stupid". So, keep it as simple as possible.

Wow Abi, you have obviously done an detailed research!! Thank you for the explanation!! You are appreciated, at least by me! Hehe!

This type of problems always and almost unavoidedly happen in forums. Like I have said, I ran away from a plastic surgery forum because I felt I have grew a part from my boobies sisters and some members became really bitcchy, nasty, mean, aggressive and defensive. So, I decided I have enough and don't want to waste my time there anymore.

I think, everyone has the right to express their opinions. If we didn't like the comments, maybe we should just ignore and move on unless that person had crossed the line. I being attacked and told to keep the forum friendly just because I mentioned about my thought about the kids in Asia been spoilt rotten. When I said that, I was talking about the kids from the upper middle class and above, I didn't mean all the kids in Asia as there are poor kids too. Talk about defensiveness here??

[Anti-Gravity]

Just my 2 cents -- even if unwanted as a "noob"...

Oh my gosh, peeps, I haven't checked this whole site for a while, but has it really come down to this!?

I do have the upmost respect for senior members/experts/posting contributors' knowledge, & experience. Without you, I would probably be ruining my body right now...

But I must say that I am disappointed & saddened to say that a little of that regard has been diminished in your treatment of the OP. The original article wasn't that bad -- it was pretty comprehensive as far as what's posted here IMHO...but perhaps it wasn't so much *what* was said to the op but *how* it was said by at least one of the veterans.

I'm greatly looking forward to the new ultimate pm guide constructed by you with every detail that needs to be included. I hope to see a new thread authored by you very soon/or this one edited by Eve et.al & added to completion by you very soon!!

[lostacres6]

I've read on pg. 19 that there are no side effects taking PM. So, I would like to know if anyone has experienced having headaches while taking PM? Isabelle said if you have headaches, decrease the PM or increase FG. I increased the FG but still have them.
After doing my 1st liver cleanse & restarting PM, I started having headaches everyday which I never did before.
I checked my blood sugar & BP of which both were normal.
Any thoughts?

[AbiDrew85]

lostacres6, the trouble with people following Isabelle's ideas like they were some kind of bible is that Isabelle was a trans woman, like myself, and, unlike myself, didn't have as complete an idea of what things do in a genetically female body as opposed to a genetically male one.

PM is an estrogen, and what you describe sounds like mild to moderate estrogen dominance symptoms. Either your normal hormone levels were in perfect balance or you had an undetectable estrogen dominance.

Supplementing estrogen without supplementing progesterone exacerbated the effect.

If you wish to continue trying PM, try a progesterone cream as well. You might consider trying glandular therapy instead.

[lostacres6]

Thanks Abi for your reply.
I thought I'd do a liver cleanse because I seemed to have stalled (?). I stopped all supplements & topicals, then took a liver cleansing pill (from Swanson). Then restarted all the supplements & topicals. I take PM 500 mg twice a day & Progesterone cream twice a day. I do not cycle since I'm menopausal. Also take FG, GR, WY, Fennel, EFA, L arginine, MSM, Pig placenta, hyaluronic acid. My last hormone saliva test showed low estrogen, low progesterone & high testosterone.
I had began taking licorice for about 5 weeks but stopped thinking it maybe was causing the headaches. I tried BO but couldn't get my temp up above 97.

[AbiDrew85]

Oh, ok. Then take more pc. Take what it suggests on your two supposed to be off weeks, the ones immediately after when you would have your period if you weren't menopausal, and double it the other two weeks.

I'd also suggest trying some antiandrogens NOT licorice. Licorice is an antiandrogen, but it's also an anti-everything. It takes a sledgehammer to your hormones which is why it was making you feel bad.

Exactly how high is high for test? Can you get me the actual numbers and units?

[lostacres6]

Test was 37 Estradiol was 1.1 Progesterone 477
Abi, Thanks so much for your time & brains in helping me.
What confuses me was that I had no symptoms at all prior to the liver cleanse, then boom daily continuous headaches which is out of realm for me since I am in excellent health.

[lostacres6]

Forgot to put the ranges (according to this lab) - sorry
Test (16-55)
Estradiol (0.5-1.7
Prog (200-3000)

[AbiDrew85]

Oh wow. OK, so no, you're really not that high for testosterone, I honestly wouldn't even worry about it. The menopausal hormone levels otoh... what EXACTLY are you presently taking? Tell me everything, doses and all.