[Doll]

Hi Doll - I take levothyroxine 75 mcg (which I've been taking for years). Once your friend starts taking the medication and her thyroid settles to normal, will (or do you think) she will start responding to NBE?

I've had no results yet with hypnotherapy, massage & FSO (started 3 months ago). I am considering taking Wonderup, or maybe red clover (I've heard PM is a no no with thyroid issues).

Please let us know what she decides to take and what results she gets.

As I said above, I've read PM is a no no, do you know of any other herbs which you can't take with this medication?

PM is definitely a no-no, you're right, but everything else should be ok to a degree. UNFORTUNATELY, oftentimes hypothyroidism causes estrogen dominance, which is why women don't see success with estrogenic herbs. That is why we are switching her to a PC-ONLY regimen, although she may continue on her GroBust as well, since it's much weaker than the actual herbs themselves. This is why I say everything else should be ok to a degree; it will ONLY work if it is what your body needs. Exceeding what your body needs will only cause imbalances that won't promote growth.

I really do think she will see results as soon as she gets this medication. I think the main problem from her hypothyroidism is that it prevents her body from creating new cells, which is what causes her thin skin, thin hair and makes it nearly impossible to create muscle. Even so, without the medicine she's still seen slight results from PC, so that gives us good hope that PC will be the answer.

[djt-d]

Hi Doll

You say you oftentimes hypothyroidism causes estrogen dominance. Is there a way to know/test if you are estrogen dominance?

Also, what is PC? (the PC only regime you mention).

You're really knowledgable, I just don't understand all this science stuff, no matter how many threads and posts I read, it's just so confusing and over my head.

Thank you so much

[Doll]

Oh, I wish I was one of the knowledgeable ones here! Lol But thank you. Even I get confused by most of the science-based posts! ^^;

PC is Progesterone Cream. Also, this is the symptom list I use to figure out hormone levels. Not as good as a real hormone test, of course, but so far this is the most comprehensive list I've found. It's helped me so much throughout my NBE.



(From http://www.space-age.com/hypothyroidism.html)
"Estrogen Dominance & Thyroid Function

Estrogen causes food calories to be stored as fat. Thyroid Hormone causes fat calories to be turned into usable energy. Thyroid Hormone and Estrogen therefore have opposing actions.

Estrogen dominance inhibits Thyroid action and lowers the rate of metabolism of the Body. Natural Progesterone inhibits Estrogen action.

The symptoms of Hypothyroidism may also occur because of Estrogen Dominance (deficiency of Progesterone). Hypothyroidism, which results in weight gain and a host of other symptoms, can be corrected by the presence of Natural Progesterone in the body. Natural Progesterone levels can be enhanced in the body by supplementation of the diet with Herbal Dietary Supplement Wild Yam during the perimenopausal years and once corrected can be easily maintained by increasing the intake of Protein rich Food in the Diet - 2 bowls of Mung Sprouts per day is adequate in most cases to continue maintaining your Body in a Hormonally Balanced state. To increase Progesterone levels during the Menopausal years, topical application of Progest Gel containing Bioidentical Progesterone Hormone is recommended..

Many other presumed Thyroid dysfunctions (like falling hair, water retention, loss of memory, dry skin) and Autoimmune Disorders are actually caused by Estrogen Dominance.

The crucial nutrient for Thyroid Hormone synthesis in the body is Iodine. Herbal Dietary Supplements like Kelp are a rich source of natural Iodine. Natural Iodine along with Tyrosine an amino acid can help the Thyroid manufacture normal levels of Hormone T3 and T4. In the presence of adequate levels of Natural Progesterone, Estrogen Dominance will disappear and the Thyroid Gland / Body will begin functioning normally i.e. the symptoms of weight gain will disappear.

Kelp along with Tyrosine (and Wild Yam / Progest Gel in cases of Estrogen Dominance) can therefore increase the Rate of Metabolism of the body and result in corresponding Weight & Body Dimension reduction. Weight & Body Dimensions reduced in this manner have no rebound effect and you do not have to be on the Program for ever and for ever."

[djt-d]

Wow, thanks Doll.

Thanks for the estrogen list (it's so long & useful, I've actually printed it off to read later and keep for reference).

Please can I ask a question - In relation to the "hypothyroidism causes estrogen dominance". When your thyroid is at a normal level (because of the medication), are you still estrogen dominance? Or is your estrogen back to normal once your thryoid settles to normal? Thanks

[aremwellness]

Hey djt-d ,
Hypothyroidism causes estrogen dominance may also have some serious risks... Most women that have an Estrogen Dominant Disease such as fibrocystic breast disease, ovarian cysts, endometriosis, adenomyosis, menstrual migraines or menstrual acne also may have weight gain. Progesterone can help you lose weight. Typically the weight gain goes on the belly or the hips. This is because the woman is hypothyroid. Typically thyroid blood tests are normal or slightly below normal. But Estrogen Dominance does NOT affect thyroid hormone levels much. Instead, the Estrogen Dominance affects the thyroid receptor making it less sensitive to thyroid hormone. The end result is the woman is hypothyroid.

[Doll]

^ Thanks, I wasn't exactly sure about how it worked. I'm still learning here. ^^;

In that case, then if her estrogen dominance is causing her thyroid problems, and her body is properly producing thyroid hormones, just not absorbing/utilizing it properly, then wouldn't it be best for her to have a saliva test done rather than a bunch of expensive blood tests? I understand that there can be many causes for hypothyroidism, but I would just hate to see her have to pay all that money to get a lot of tests done if they're still going to come up negative (it doesn't help that her moron dr doesn't believe that there's actually a saliva test for hypothyroidism).

[djt-d]

Hi arewellness, thank you for the information you have given. Much appreciated.

I have endometriosis (and acquired hypothyroidism), so does that mean I am estrogen dominant then?

Many thanks

[djt-d]

Hi Doll

As your friend and myself are both with the same problem (thyroid), I would like to try the herbs, etc, your friend is trying as you are far more knowledgeable than me in what we can and cannot try, etc. I really hope neither of you mind.

I note you say estrogen herbs won't work as hypothyroidism are estrogen dominant, but I don't know which herbs are estrogen herbs. Please can you give me a list of these herbs.

Also, you say your friend will be doing the PC only regime. Please can I get this right - Is this just the cream, nothing else (ie no progesterone herbs/capsules (if there is such a thing - sorry, I told you I wasn't any good at all this stuff) . It's just that I've searched "progesterone cream" on my health shop's website and it doesn't come up/they don't sell it, and I don't know where else to try.

Thank you Doll, and hope you don't mind me asking this on your post.

[Doll]

No problem! Would love to help in any way possible!

She was taking the same thing as me: saw palmetto, fenugreek, and red clover/hops. Of these, only saw palmetto is NOT estrogenic (I think it may have SLIGHTLY estrogenic effects, but not enough to be noted). Even though saw palmetto prevents Testosterone from converting into DHT, thus allowing for more Testosterone to be converted into estrogen, it is still recommended for women with thyroid problems, it seems. Fenugreek is estrogenic, but won't allow your body to raise its estrogen levels beyond its own limits.

I'll post her new plan to give you a better idea of what might work. These herbs have given her positive response so far, even in the short time she's tried them, so she's going to continue with them to see how they interact with the PC.



I'm not sure the exact dosing of everything, I think it's just what it says on the bottles. I don't think any of the Gro-Bust herbs are very estrogenic, if at all, and I think that's why that one definitely works for her.

Depending on where you live, PC may only be available by prescription only, and sometimes can't be shipped into some countries. So maybe look into your area and what's available. We buy everything at Vitamin Shoppe, as they've got great prices and a great selection of female herbs and such (the GNC by us hardly has anything!)

I'd say honestly, PC and SP are your best bet to start out with, then go from there and see how your body feels about it. Good luck, I know this is all so confusing. I'm still confused by it myself even.

[Doll]

BY THE WAY...
She just got her blood tests done yesterday (finally). Wish her luck that hypothyroidism shows up so she doesn't have to shell out even more money for more tests in order to get medication!