21-04-2012, 05:45 PM
how long are you supposed to use VITEX?
October 15 2008 at 8:29 PM MermaidSlur (Login MermaidSlur)
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I'm using vitex to balance too much estrogen. i was using other herbs before, and i just wanted to know how long im supposed to use VITEX? the pill bottle says 8-12 weeks! i really want to get back on program, but i also want the estrogen to be balanced so the herbs will work. can anyone help me? thanks.
Author Reply
Moon
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 16 2008, 7:25 AM
I thoguht it was 4-6 months.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 16 2008, 1:13 PM
Hi MermaidSlur,
I think Moon is right about the typical length of use. There really is no evidence that longer periods of use are negative in any way. Some women have used vitex continuously for years with no harmful effect. I personally went through a 9 month course followed by a 6 month course.
The biggest problem I think is that since the positive effects of vitex are not fully felt until it is taken for long enough, many women stop using it before it really has a chance to work for them. We tend to say that it takes 3 months to really work and that is an average, some women seem to have a quicker response and some would take even longer than that.
Once you start to feel a positive change from it, I think you should continue another few months. One of the best things about vitex is that it works within your body's natural cycles and enhances them. It will not cause you to create an imbalance of too much progesterone because the body self regulates the output.
The only downside of vitex is that since it does work within the body's own system it is not effective in raising progesterone levels for everyone. In order for vitex to increase progesterone the women must ovulate. The effect of vitex occurs because it stimulates the corpus luteum (egg cyst left on the ovary after ovulation) to produce progesterone. For women who no longer ovulate, who have no ovaries or who are on birth control that does not allow them to ovulate there is no mechanism to bring in more progesterone.
This does not mean that vitex would have zero effect though. In addition to raising progesterone levels it also lowers prolactin. If that is something that is out of balance then it could help in that way.
Anyway, before I run on at the keyboard any longer... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Moon
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 16 2008, 2:26 PM
Damn, I didn't know you're not supposed to take vitex if you're on BCP. I'm taking it mostly for excess androgens but I was kinda hoping it will just balance whatever imbalance I have and give me a boost in my future NBE. I dunno if I should quit BCP now...
Linn
(Login linn7880) vitex and bcp and some more stuff.. October 17 2008, 12:21 PM
Hi Moon!
I have also read that you should not take vitex and birth control together.(I have read it on websites about vitex).I mean to have read in dr. lee's book "what your doctor may not tell you about premenopause" that when you are on bcp you are probably low on both estrogen and progesteron.It is a really intresting book and I recommend you to read it if you have not. I have just started to read it.
I think it is right as waxingmoon says that you need to ovulate for the vitex to work.And since you do not when you are on the bcp it will be difficult for the vitex to do its job. I really wonder if it is safest to do nbe when you are on bcp or when you are of. I have thought that if you have a good cycle and have progesteron to balance the increasing of estrogen it will be ok to do nbe without bcp. But if you have an hormonal imbalance and do not take bcp while on herbs you probably make it worse.I am thinking of gynecological problems like endometrioses, pcos and fibroids. I think for the one of us who has an hormonal imbalance we are more likely to get such problems if we do not do it right.So I think you should take bcp and do other herbs or quit the bcp and start vitex alone or with something more to get a good cycle and when you have a good cycle start a new nbe program.
I read a post from fairycat and she thought that if you did not develope properly during puberty.( small breasts, irregular periods that never became regular, small hips you are more likely to sucseed with vitex) This is my hope and I started vitex today acetually. By the way I do not think bcp are good for our bodies some people got pcos and infertility problems from it, that was why I quitted, I have used them for years.But do your own research on bcp. I might be wrong with my opinions what do you think?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 1:32 PM
I'm really afraid to stop BCP though because my cycle is terrible without it. I quit it once a few yers ago and my period was an absolute hell, I had PMS half of the cycle and got acne on my face, shoulders and back. Then I went back on BCP and things improved but they were never again as good as they were before I stopped.
I don't know if I have any of those hormonal conditions, my gynecologist wanted to do an ultrasound once when I was a teenager but I was reluctant and just got on the pill and the pill helped so it wasn't necessary.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 1:34 PM
I heard tho that vitex is used to ease the hormonal blow of stopping BCP, does anyone know more about this?
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 2:00 PM
I understand that you are afraid of stopping the pill. It will probably be a difficult period before the body adjust it self. But if you take vitex and help with progesterone cream when you have pms symptoms I think it will be much better. The difficult thing with irregular periods is that you do not know when you ovulate or if you do it, so it is more difficult to use the progesterone cream right than for people who has a good cycle. But if pms symptoms is really bad I do not think it will be bad to use some cream.I read here on the board that you can use vitamin E instead of ibuprofen and NSAIDS if you got pains so that is what I will try. Hope that will work.If you have much acne you probably have to much androgens and might need some nettle along with the vitex. As far as I have understand the vitex helps to regulate the cycle whatever the problem is..
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 2:23 PM
I don't think PC would be appropriate for me because I don't think I have estrogen dominance. Actually I don't really have an idea what my actual hormonal state is because I've always been on the pill, I got on it 2 years after I got my period. I've been ok on the pill tho. That time when I went off I did take nettle root and it didn't help a bit, the hormonal blow was just too much.
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 3:16 PM
were your period regular before you went on the pill? If it was not I think 1) it did not got enough time to regulate before you got on the pill
or 2) you might lack progesterone. I think it is the most common thing to lack progesterone if your period is irregular. I know that if you try to get pregnant and not is pregnant within a year they take a test of your progesterone of the 21 day of your cycle. So that they know if you have ovulated. If the progesterone is bad I think they use to put people of a progetin to help them to ovulate. If you have acne you might have to much androgens. If you have tendency to dark hair up your stomach, in face or around your nippels you can be more sure..If you easily put weight on your stomach and not on the breast you might have to much estrogens or testosterone. But most people put weight in the stomach first so it can be hard to say if you are thin..Don't you think you are estrogen dominant since you are a girl? I think you must have more estrogens than androgens and your progesterone might be normal or a little low. If you quit bcp it will take time for the body to adjust so I think the first time after bcp will be a hormonal caos for most people.. maybe your hormones never had got the time to
balance since you have been on bcp for a long time?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 4:54 PM
Lol I was refering to estrgen dominance as in the hormonal imbalance, more accurately called progesteron deficiency. And this Dr Lee's book sounds very informative, I was looking into it but couldn't find anywhere to get it.
Lets see, before I went on the pill I usually had a short cycle, 21-23 days, but it varied too. Period was about 6 days and very painful. I always felt my ovulation tho as I'd get a sharp pain in one ovary. I believe I have excess androgens because I have acne that are very responsive to hormonal chances (and not at all to food for example), I have some hair on my stomach and arround nipples. I have a tummy too, always did even when I was stick skinny, but right now I'm pretty medium so fat certainly has an affinity to my stomach.
I dunno, I always felt pretty ok on BCP and **** without it, so it seems it helped my hormonal balance. But on the other hand it definitely is true that your hormones adjust to BCP and going off it leaves them very unbalanced. I guess the question is if it's possible for vitex to balance me better than BCP. It sounds like a bit high expectation, and it is risky.
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 6:36 PM
yeah I expressed myself a bit stupid about the estrogen dominance..!lol
I was thinking about the progesterone defiency acetually, but overall we must have most estrogen since we are women.. I guess one can have very many hormonal imbalances and that it is a difficult field to understand proberly.
Since you have some hair here and there I guess you have to much adrogens.
(I have this hairproblem myself)fat also gets right to my stomach and never to my breasts.
I know that I have the tendency to pcos but they have not put this diagnose on me, maybe because I never have tried to get pregnant and that is when it can be a bit difficult. Even if many easily gets pregnant with this syndrom. If you have pcos the ovulation does not work properly and you gets cysts which produce testosterone if i have understood it right.The corpus luteum does not produce enough progesterone either. I know you can have long cycles, short sycles and irregular cycles with this syndrom.The best thing is to exercise, be careful with sugar and eat healthy.At least until the cysts are gone.I think there are very many degrees of pcos some have much trouble and some have a mild vertion. I don not know if you have this but with the hair, stomach, acne and short periods it can be. It can also be that your estrogen/progesterone balance is fine but you have to much androgens. I have found out for myself that it is not normal with the hair growht, but when you are used to a thing you begin to think it is normal.
I absolutely think vitex can balance your hormones but it can take time. I have a very strong faith in this herb so I hope I will not be dissapointed..
Did you use nettle for a long time?
By the way you can buy the books from dr lee at :www.johnleemd.com
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 11:51 PM
I wonder if painful ovulation has anything to do with PCOS? I've been on nettle root for quite a long time, several years, on and off a bit. It makes a difference for my acne, but not enoguh to take care of them by itself. Btw if I do take vitex with BCP it should still work for excess androgens right?
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 18 2008, 9:18 AM
Yes I think it will help with your acne even if you are on bcp, but I am no expert on this. Guess it depends on how strong your bcp pill is, if they are to strong the vitex might do'nt do its job. Before ovulation the folikkels also produce some progesteron very little though so even if you do not ovulate the vitex gets a little progesteron to work with. I guess that is why people gets theit period back after bcp, because if an ovulation must happen you must wait until the body ovulate, but if the vitex work with the progesteron in the folikkelphase you will probably ovulate earlier. Do not know if it makes sense, my theory though..About pain and ovulation. I do not know how an ovulation feels because I am not sure if i ever had felt it. I have had pains in my ovaries now and then over the last years and it can be many times during a cycle. If you just got pain once during a cycle you can be more sure that this is an ovulation.But if you have pains now and then like me I am more afraid that there are cycts or something else wrong..
I would have been careful with vitex and bcp on the same time though..
mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 18 2008, 10:35 PM
i was on the pill for about 3 years and it gave me migraines and i blame it for my endometriosis as i did not have any problems before. but who knows? i had to take BCP bc i was on accutane for bad acne and by law you have to use 2 forms of birth control with accutane bc of the birth defects it causes.
my doctor did a blood test herself to see what was up with my hormones and she said i had too much estrogen, but didnt really go into detail. she wanted to put me on LUPRON to control the estrogen, but there's no way i would ever go on that drug. i think that doctors purposely dont give you too many details so you'll just do what they tell you and keep pushing drugs on you. anyway, this is why i wanted to take the vitex to try and control the estrogen and get everything in balance before i go on NBE again.
i'll try taking it for a few months and see what happens. ive been on it for only 2 weeks now.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 18 2008, 10:44 PM
Moon - did you never get a scan? Your symptoms sound a lot like mine.
Referring to the original post, my mum's friend takes vitex + SP for PCO and I thought the point was that you took them instead of Dianette or whatever else for life - none of these things actually cures PCO, it's a metabolic problem that's why it so often leads to diabetes.
mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 5:00 AM
is it possible to have endometriosis and PCOS at the same time? i'm not quite sure i understand the extent of endometriosis, which is what i have, i dont know what causes it. is it a hormone imbalance thing like PCOS? i have a lot of symptoms that sound like PCOS, i mean A LOT... but i've only been told i have endometriosis.
also, can you take vitex along with other herbs? like goats rue, hops, etc? i would assume i would have to take the vitex for a while first to achieve balance. but then can i start to add herbs in the mix?
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 8:41 AM
Yep, you can have both, endometriosis is where the endometrium (lining of the womb that would nourish a baby if you were pregnant) is growing elsewhere usually on the outside of your womb and other internal organs. As your cycle progresses it grows (like it should normally) then sheds (usually this would give your period but because it is on the outside there is nowhere for it to go). The growing and shedding cause the pain. I think endometriosis only causes the painful symptoms not things like facial / body hair or acne so you may want to get a scan done. You can have PCOS (i.e. the syndrome) without the actual cysts just the hormone imbalance - I think it's very likely this is very underdiagnosed.
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 9:47 AM
Hi Mermaids,
I think that endometrioses is a hormonal imbalance. I really recommend you to read dr. Lee's book "what the doctor may not tell you about premenopause"
You can order ir from www.johnleemd.com. He writes about hormonal problems.
I agree with Louise I think this pcos syndrom is very underdiagnosed and that it can vary alot in degree and what symptoms you have. Some people first get diagnosed when then do'nt get pregnant. Some doctors just put you on bcp to help with symptoms. I asked my gynecologist about if there was a reason for my small and underdeveloped breasts. She said it's genetic and recommended implants. But If there is a link between pcos and small boobs it's not strange if small boobs runs in families. Of course many have small boobs without this syndrom, but I do believe that if you have many symptoms, small breasts may be one of the symptoms.
I would be careful to take much phytoestrogens since you have endometrioses.
Think it can raise your estrogen and make your pains worse. I would just have taken vitex first and maybe nettle along.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 3:24 PM
Louise, I never got a scan, I'm thinking of getting one now tho, my gyn did want to do one when I was younger.
I've decided to stop BCP for at least 2 months and then maybe get back on depening on how bad things will get, all while taking vitex. That's because the last time I quit BCP the hormonal blow started only the thrird month, so I can possibly use the first two months for some vitex action. I even thoguht of going on and off and on anf off BCP while taking vitex, tho I guess that may not be very healthy.
I've been thinking tho it would be good to get off BCP completely, cause I've been on for 8 years and I have a family hisotry of breast cancer. I really hope vitex would work and I can pull it off and possibly even fix me enoguh to give me better NBE chances. I'll give it a try and see, but if it gets too bad I'll probably get back on BCP.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 20 2008, 4:38 PM
Hi Moon, my periods have always been hell when I wasnt on BCP too, so I can relate, I think our symptoms are quite similar. I went off BCP last year and then started Vitex three months later as I wanted a hormone test done first. My period was all over the place then and got more and more painful month by month. I think it took about three months for the vitex to show effect and for the periods to get more regular and less painful.
It takes about three months for the hormones from the pill to be totally out of your system and that is the least time I would give it if you come off the pill. You are best waiting three to four periods so the vitex can do its work.
It really has helped me and even though I still have periods pain a year on they arent so terrible anymore and my moods are a bit more stable before and during as well. All in all I am really glad I am off the pill, I feel a lot better without it healthwise and the vitex has been great. It did do a lot with my body through the first five to six months though and I think when you have really messed up hormones you should take it at least that long.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 20 2008, 6:43 PM
Hi Lisa, thanks for you imput. But I did not quite understand what you ment by:
''It takes about three months for the hormones from the pill to be totally out of your system and that is the least time I would give it if you come off the pill. You are best waiting three to four periods so the vitex can do its work.''
That I should start taking vitex 3 months after I quite the pill, or before? I think that before would be a much better choice because it would give vitex time to start working before the hormones were out of my body and thus ease that terrible ''BCP withdrawal syndrome''.
Anyway I've decided to take vitex and BCP together for at least one more month, maybe two, then quit BCP, cause I wanna make sure vitex has some advantage and also too see how both opptions work.
Thanks to Linn too, you were a great help and much appreciated!
Lisa121
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 21 2008, 12:25 PM
Sorry Moon, I was in a hurry, that sentence wasnt quite clear.
I meant it seperately. The pills hormones take three months to get out of the system, so to take at least a break of that length of time. As you are taking the vitex already to give it a chance to start kicking in within those three months as your ovaries start to take up their work again. Two months probably really isnt long enough.
In the meantime what really helps with period pains is to drink a cup of caraway seed tea. Just put in one tsp full of caraway seed in a cup and leave it in for five to ten minutes to steep, stir and then drink. Genereally I just leave it in the cup, it doesnt do any harm and stays at the bottom anywa. If you add peppermint or spearmint tea and some sugar it will mask a bit of the horrible taste, because it is quite gross. Drink 2-3 cups of that a day as you need it. It really is quite horrible but does help as it helpst to relax the cramping.
Linn
(Login linn7880) vitex journey.. October 21 2008, 2:56 PM
Hi Moon,
It's good to help each other. I really hope we will succeed with vitex!
I felt something went wrong during puberty and hope it will be possible to "fix it a bit"..
October 15 2008 at 8:29 PM MermaidSlur (Login MermaidSlur)
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I'm using vitex to balance too much estrogen. i was using other herbs before, and i just wanted to know how long im supposed to use VITEX? the pill bottle says 8-12 weeks! i really want to get back on program, but i also want the estrogen to be balanced so the herbs will work. can anyone help me? thanks.
Author Reply
Moon
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 16 2008, 7:25 AM
I thoguht it was 4-6 months.
waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 16 2008, 1:13 PM
Hi MermaidSlur,
I think Moon is right about the typical length of use. There really is no evidence that longer periods of use are negative in any way. Some women have used vitex continuously for years with no harmful effect. I personally went through a 9 month course followed by a 6 month course.
The biggest problem I think is that since the positive effects of vitex are not fully felt until it is taken for long enough, many women stop using it before it really has a chance to work for them. We tend to say that it takes 3 months to really work and that is an average, some women seem to have a quicker response and some would take even longer than that.
Once you start to feel a positive change from it, I think you should continue another few months. One of the best things about vitex is that it works within your body's natural cycles and enhances them. It will not cause you to create an imbalance of too much progesterone because the body self regulates the output.
The only downside of vitex is that since it does work within the body's own system it is not effective in raising progesterone levels for everyone. In order for vitex to increase progesterone the women must ovulate. The effect of vitex occurs because it stimulates the corpus luteum (egg cyst left on the ovary after ovulation) to produce progesterone. For women who no longer ovulate, who have no ovaries or who are on birth control that does not allow them to ovulate there is no mechanism to bring in more progesterone.
This does not mean that vitex would have zero effect though. In addition to raising progesterone levels it also lowers prolactin. If that is something that is out of balance then it could help in that way.
Anyway, before I run on at the keyboard any longer... lol.
Best wishes,
waxingmoon
Moon
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 16 2008, 2:26 PM
Damn, I didn't know you're not supposed to take vitex if you're on BCP. I'm taking it mostly for excess androgens but I was kinda hoping it will just balance whatever imbalance I have and give me a boost in my future NBE. I dunno if I should quit BCP now...
Linn
(Login linn7880) vitex and bcp and some more stuff.. October 17 2008, 12:21 PM
Hi Moon!
I have also read that you should not take vitex and birth control together.(I have read it on websites about vitex).I mean to have read in dr. lee's book "what your doctor may not tell you about premenopause" that when you are on bcp you are probably low on both estrogen and progesteron.It is a really intresting book and I recommend you to read it if you have not. I have just started to read it.
I think it is right as waxingmoon says that you need to ovulate for the vitex to work.And since you do not when you are on the bcp it will be difficult for the vitex to do its job. I really wonder if it is safest to do nbe when you are on bcp or when you are of. I have thought that if you have a good cycle and have progesteron to balance the increasing of estrogen it will be ok to do nbe without bcp. But if you have an hormonal imbalance and do not take bcp while on herbs you probably make it worse.I am thinking of gynecological problems like endometrioses, pcos and fibroids. I think for the one of us who has an hormonal imbalance we are more likely to get such problems if we do not do it right.So I think you should take bcp and do other herbs or quit the bcp and start vitex alone or with something more to get a good cycle and when you have a good cycle start a new nbe program.
I read a post from fairycat and she thought that if you did not develope properly during puberty.( small breasts, irregular periods that never became regular, small hips you are more likely to sucseed with vitex) This is my hope and I started vitex today acetually. By the way I do not think bcp are good for our bodies some people got pcos and infertility problems from it, that was why I quitted, I have used them for years.But do your own research on bcp. I might be wrong with my opinions what do you think?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 1:32 PM
I'm really afraid to stop BCP though because my cycle is terrible without it. I quit it once a few yers ago and my period was an absolute hell, I had PMS half of the cycle and got acne on my face, shoulders and back. Then I went back on BCP and things improved but they were never again as good as they were before I stopped.
I don't know if I have any of those hormonal conditions, my gynecologist wanted to do an ultrasound once when I was a teenager but I was reluctant and just got on the pill and the pill helped so it wasn't necessary.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 1:34 PM
I heard tho that vitex is used to ease the hormonal blow of stopping BCP, does anyone know more about this?
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 2:00 PM
I understand that you are afraid of stopping the pill. It will probably be a difficult period before the body adjust it self. But if you take vitex and help with progesterone cream when you have pms symptoms I think it will be much better. The difficult thing with irregular periods is that you do not know when you ovulate or if you do it, so it is more difficult to use the progesterone cream right than for people who has a good cycle. But if pms symptoms is really bad I do not think it will be bad to use some cream.I read here on the board that you can use vitamin E instead of ibuprofen and NSAIDS if you got pains so that is what I will try. Hope that will work.If you have much acne you probably have to much androgens and might need some nettle along with the vitex. As far as I have understand the vitex helps to regulate the cycle whatever the problem is..
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 2:23 PM
I don't think PC would be appropriate for me because I don't think I have estrogen dominance. Actually I don't really have an idea what my actual hormonal state is because I've always been on the pill, I got on it 2 years after I got my period. I've been ok on the pill tho. That time when I went off I did take nettle root and it didn't help a bit, the hormonal blow was just too much.
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 3:16 PM
were your period regular before you went on the pill? If it was not I think 1) it did not got enough time to regulate before you got on the pill
or 2) you might lack progesterone. I think it is the most common thing to lack progesterone if your period is irregular. I know that if you try to get pregnant and not is pregnant within a year they take a test of your progesterone of the 21 day of your cycle. So that they know if you have ovulated. If the progesterone is bad I think they use to put people of a progetin to help them to ovulate. If you have acne you might have to much androgens. If you have tendency to dark hair up your stomach, in face or around your nippels you can be more sure..If you easily put weight on your stomach and not on the breast you might have to much estrogens or testosterone. But most people put weight in the stomach first so it can be hard to say if you are thin..Don't you think you are estrogen dominant since you are a girl? I think you must have more estrogens than androgens and your progesterone might be normal or a little low. If you quit bcp it will take time for the body to adjust so I think the first time after bcp will be a hormonal caos for most people.. maybe your hormones never had got the time to
balance since you have been on bcp for a long time?
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 4:54 PM
Lol I was refering to estrgen dominance as in the hormonal imbalance, more accurately called progesteron deficiency. And this Dr Lee's book sounds very informative, I was looking into it but couldn't find anywhere to get it.
Lets see, before I went on the pill I usually had a short cycle, 21-23 days, but it varied too. Period was about 6 days and very painful. I always felt my ovulation tho as I'd get a sharp pain in one ovary. I believe I have excess androgens because I have acne that are very responsive to hormonal chances (and not at all to food for example), I have some hair on my stomach and arround nipples. I have a tummy too, always did even when I was stick skinny, but right now I'm pretty medium so fat certainly has an affinity to my stomach.
I dunno, I always felt pretty ok on BCP and **** without it, so it seems it helped my hormonal balance. But on the other hand it definitely is true that your hormones adjust to BCP and going off it leaves them very unbalanced. I guess the question is if it's possible for vitex to balance me better than BCP. It sounds like a bit high expectation, and it is risky.
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 6:36 PM
yeah I expressed myself a bit stupid about the estrogen dominance..!lol
I was thinking about the progesterone defiency acetually, but overall we must have most estrogen since we are women.. I guess one can have very many hormonal imbalances and that it is a difficult field to understand proberly.
Since you have some hair here and there I guess you have to much adrogens.
(I have this hairproblem myself)fat also gets right to my stomach and never to my breasts.
I know that I have the tendency to pcos but they have not put this diagnose on me, maybe because I never have tried to get pregnant and that is when it can be a bit difficult. Even if many easily gets pregnant with this syndrom. If you have pcos the ovulation does not work properly and you gets cysts which produce testosterone if i have understood it right.The corpus luteum does not produce enough progesterone either. I know you can have long cycles, short sycles and irregular cycles with this syndrom.The best thing is to exercise, be careful with sugar and eat healthy.At least until the cysts are gone.I think there are very many degrees of pcos some have much trouble and some have a mild vertion. I don not know if you have this but with the hair, stomach, acne and short periods it can be. It can also be that your estrogen/progesterone balance is fine but you have to much androgens. I have found out for myself that it is not normal with the hair growht, but when you are used to a thing you begin to think it is normal.
I absolutely think vitex can balance your hormones but it can take time. I have a very strong faith in this herb so I hope I will not be dissapointed..
Did you use nettle for a long time?
By the way you can buy the books from dr lee at :www.johnleemd.com
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 17 2008, 11:51 PM
I wonder if painful ovulation has anything to do with PCOS? I've been on nettle root for quite a long time, several years, on and off a bit. It makes a difference for my acne, but not enoguh to take care of them by itself. Btw if I do take vitex with BCP it should still work for excess androgens right?
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 18 2008, 9:18 AM
Yes I think it will help with your acne even if you are on bcp, but I am no expert on this. Guess it depends on how strong your bcp pill is, if they are to strong the vitex might do'nt do its job. Before ovulation the folikkels also produce some progesteron very little though so even if you do not ovulate the vitex gets a little progesteron to work with. I guess that is why people gets theit period back after bcp, because if an ovulation must happen you must wait until the body ovulate, but if the vitex work with the progesteron in the folikkelphase you will probably ovulate earlier. Do not know if it makes sense, my theory though..About pain and ovulation. I do not know how an ovulation feels because I am not sure if i ever had felt it. I have had pains in my ovaries now and then over the last years and it can be many times during a cycle. If you just got pain once during a cycle you can be more sure that this is an ovulation.But if you have pains now and then like me I am more afraid that there are cycts or something else wrong..
I would have been careful with vitex and bcp on the same time though..
mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 18 2008, 10:35 PM
i was on the pill for about 3 years and it gave me migraines and i blame it for my endometriosis as i did not have any problems before. but who knows? i had to take BCP bc i was on accutane for bad acne and by law you have to use 2 forms of birth control with accutane bc of the birth defects it causes.
my doctor did a blood test herself to see what was up with my hormones and she said i had too much estrogen, but didnt really go into detail. she wanted to put me on LUPRON to control the estrogen, but there's no way i would ever go on that drug. i think that doctors purposely dont give you too many details so you'll just do what they tell you and keep pushing drugs on you. anyway, this is why i wanted to take the vitex to try and control the estrogen and get everything in balance before i go on NBE again.
i'll try taking it for a few months and see what happens. ive been on it for only 2 weeks now.
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 18 2008, 10:44 PM
Moon - did you never get a scan? Your symptoms sound a lot like mine.
Referring to the original post, my mum's friend takes vitex + SP for PCO and I thought the point was that you took them instead of Dianette or whatever else for life - none of these things actually cures PCO, it's a metabolic problem that's why it so often leads to diabetes.
mermaidslur
(Login MermaidSlur) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 5:00 AM
is it possible to have endometriosis and PCOS at the same time? i'm not quite sure i understand the extent of endometriosis, which is what i have, i dont know what causes it. is it a hormone imbalance thing like PCOS? i have a lot of symptoms that sound like PCOS, i mean A LOT... but i've only been told i have endometriosis.
also, can you take vitex along with other herbs? like goats rue, hops, etc? i would assume i would have to take the vitex for a while first to achieve balance. but then can i start to add herbs in the mix?
Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 8:41 AM
Yep, you can have both, endometriosis is where the endometrium (lining of the womb that would nourish a baby if you were pregnant) is growing elsewhere usually on the outside of your womb and other internal organs. As your cycle progresses it grows (like it should normally) then sheds (usually this would give your period but because it is on the outside there is nowhere for it to go). The growing and shedding cause the pain. I think endometriosis only causes the painful symptoms not things like facial / body hair or acne so you may want to get a scan done. You can have PCOS (i.e. the syndrome) without the actual cysts just the hormone imbalance - I think it's very likely this is very underdiagnosed.
Linn
(Login linn7880) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 9:47 AM
Hi Mermaids,
I think that endometrioses is a hormonal imbalance. I really recommend you to read dr. Lee's book "what the doctor may not tell you about premenopause"
You can order ir from www.johnleemd.com. He writes about hormonal problems.
I agree with Louise I think this pcos syndrom is very underdiagnosed and that it can vary alot in degree and what symptoms you have. Some people first get diagnosed when then do'nt get pregnant. Some doctors just put you on bcp to help with symptoms. I asked my gynecologist about if there was a reason for my small and underdeveloped breasts. She said it's genetic and recommended implants. But If there is a link between pcos and small boobs it's not strange if small boobs runs in families. Of course many have small boobs without this syndrom, but I do believe that if you have many symptoms, small breasts may be one of the symptoms.
I would be careful to take much phytoestrogens since you have endometrioses.
Think it can raise your estrogen and make your pains worse. I would just have taken vitex first and maybe nettle along.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 19 2008, 3:24 PM
Louise, I never got a scan, I'm thinking of getting one now tho, my gyn did want to do one when I was younger.
I've decided to stop BCP for at least 2 months and then maybe get back on depening on how bad things will get, all while taking vitex. That's because the last time I quit BCP the hormonal blow started only the thrird month, so I can possibly use the first two months for some vitex action. I even thoguht of going on and off and on anf off BCP while taking vitex, tho I guess that may not be very healthy.
I've been thinking tho it would be good to get off BCP completely, cause I've been on for 8 years and I have a family hisotry of breast cancer. I really hope vitex would work and I can pull it off and possibly even fix me enoguh to give me better NBE chances. I'll give it a try and see, but if it gets too bad I'll probably get back on BCP.
Lisa121
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 20 2008, 4:38 PM
Hi Moon, my periods have always been hell when I wasnt on BCP too, so I can relate, I think our symptoms are quite similar. I went off BCP last year and then started Vitex three months later as I wanted a hormone test done first. My period was all over the place then and got more and more painful month by month. I think it took about three months for the vitex to show effect and for the periods to get more regular and less painful.
It takes about three months for the hormones from the pill to be totally out of your system and that is the least time I would give it if you come off the pill. You are best waiting three to four periods so the vitex can do its work.
It really has helped me and even though I still have periods pain a year on they arent so terrible anymore and my moods are a bit more stable before and during as well. All in all I am really glad I am off the pill, I feel a lot better without it healthwise and the vitex has been great. It did do a lot with my body through the first five to six months though and I think when you have really messed up hormones you should take it at least that long.
Moon
(Login -Moon-)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 20 2008, 6:43 PM
Hi Lisa, thanks for you imput. But I did not quite understand what you ment by:
''It takes about three months for the hormones from the pill to be totally out of your system and that is the least time I would give it if you come off the pill. You are best waiting three to four periods so the vitex can do its work.''
That I should start taking vitex 3 months after I quite the pill, or before? I think that before would be a much better choice because it would give vitex time to start working before the hormones were out of my body and thus ease that terrible ''BCP withdrawal syndrome''.
Anyway I've decided to take vitex and BCP together for at least one more month, maybe two, then quit BCP, cause I wanna make sure vitex has some advantage and also too see how both opptions work.
Thanks to Linn too, you were a great help and much appreciated!
Lisa121
(no login) Re: how long are you supposed to use VITEX? October 21 2008, 12:25 PM
Sorry Moon, I was in a hurry, that sentence wasnt quite clear.
I meant it seperately. The pills hormones take three months to get out of the system, so to take at least a break of that length of time. As you are taking the vitex already to give it a chance to start kicking in within those three months as your ovaries start to take up their work again. Two months probably really isnt long enough.
In the meantime what really helps with period pains is to drink a cup of caraway seed tea. Just put in one tsp full of caraway seed in a cup and leave it in for five to ten minutes to steep, stir and then drink. Genereally I just leave it in the cup, it doesnt do any harm and stays at the bottom anywa. If you add peppermint or spearmint tea and some sugar it will mask a bit of the horrible taste, because it is quite gross. Drink 2-3 cups of that a day as you need it. It really is quite horrible but does help as it helpst to relax the cramping.
Linn
(Login linn7880) vitex journey.. October 21 2008, 2:56 PM
Hi Moon,
It's good to help each other. I really hope we will succeed with vitex!
I felt something went wrong during puberty and hope it will be possible to "fix it a bit"..