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why use progesterone cream and what is it?

#11

Progesterone Cream: Know the Risks
July 24 2008 at 3:33 AM Bianca (Login tallbutsmall)
"The problem relates to the fact that progesterone is highly fat soluble and once applied to the skin will store itself in a woman's fat tissue. When one first uses the cream, there is no problem here as the fat stores are very low. But as time goes on, the cream accumulates and contributes to disruptions in the adrenal hormones such as DHEA, cortisol, and testosterone. I have learned that although progesterone cream is an enormously useful tool, it needs to be used very cautiously.

I have also learned that it is FAR MORE IMPORTANT to work to normalize the adrenal hormones first. Once the adrenal hormones are balanced, the progesterone levels will frequently normalize and one will not require any cream. The wonderful thing about adrenal normalization is that it usually only takes 3-6 months to balance these hormones. Once they are balanced, one usually does not require any hormone supplements to keep them balanced. "

from http://www.mercola.com/article/progesterone/cream.htm (there's also an interesting chart at the bottom of this page which lists the effects of both progesterone and estrogen


" There are also no standards for the amount of progesterone contained in the creams. In one survey of 27 brands of rub-on progesterone creams, 11 contained more than 40mg progesterone per ounce of cream, five contained between two and 15mg per oz and 11 had 2mg or less per oz. [1]

The issue of how much progesterone is contained in the cream is pertinent when you consider the minute doses required by the body to keep things ticking over.

During the menstrual cycle of the ordinary woman, progesterone blood levels range from 0.5 to 20 nanograms per ml, according to Harrison's Principles of Internal Medicine. This amount is the equivalent of one part per billion in weight. With the rub-on cream, women could be enhancing the progesterone concentration in the blood by four or five times."

from http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2...i_66457061



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Progesterone Cream: Know the Risks
July 24 2008, 4:27 AM

Hi Bianca,

Thanks for posting the article and the links. Yes, progesterone cream is not risk free and should be used with caution and for the right reasons.

I have always cautioned that progesterone cream use is a treatment for estrogen dominance and not an NBE tool. Yes, some women will need to use progesterone cream to normalize their hormones - but - and this is very important - don't start using this hormone until you find all about it and have all the information on how to use it safely.

The best idea is to have a sympathetic doctor do some tests and determine the need for progesterone cream. Your doctor can then monitor you and decide what dosage and when the cream should be used and for how long.

If this is not possible - and for some it is not, then research, research, research. Online saliva tests are available that can give fairly accurate results for progesterone in particular. Then get a good guide - and of course, my favorite tidbit of advice is the book by Dr. John Lee 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause' - a book filled with useful information on how to use progesterone cream to safely treat estrogen dominance.

There is nothing more precious than our health. We must be diligent in guarding it.

waxingmoon



Bianca
(Login tallbutsmall)
Re: Progesterone Cream: Know the Risks
July 24 2008, 6:34 AM

That's very sound advice. Thanks for responding in a positive light. I was hoping someone would say something to that effect. I don't think there is anything wrong with people taking charge of their health, but I get worried at some things I read (not necessarily on this site, but in general). Some people seem ready to jump into options without really evaluating them. I commend you for your efforts and hopefully soon my research will provide me with a plan that I can use. Perhaps I will do a saliva test.



Lee
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Progesterone Cream: Know the Risks
July 25 2008, 5:31 PM

This is all so confusing to me.

I'm estrogen dominant. I've read not to take the herbs for those who need more estrogen and now I hear progesterone cream does not work for NBE.

I don't know what to do.

I do massage and heat.



Angela
(Login Angela)
Re: Progesterone Cream: Know the Risks
July 25 2008, 11:09 PM

Progesterone cream has never been said to cause breast growth directly. It's just a help to balance your hormones if it's suitable for you.
Reply
#12

Who grew while using progesterone cream?
April 24 2009 at 3:31 PM Wahaika (Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hello again,

I know a lot of this happened in the last year or two but could someone tell me who successfully grew while using progesterone cream? I think it's time to put the magnifying glass on that one. I agree with waxingmoon that for some women it works, few though they may be at this point.

Thanks,

Wahaika




Cari
(Login Iwillgrow)
SENIOR MEMBER
I have grown using progest. cream
April 24 2009, 6:27 PM


Hi there,
I have been lurking here for a while, and this is my first day posting here. After reading this I felt inclined to respond. I have grown some while using progesterone cream. I have been reluctant to post until now since some of what I have read on this forum discourages the use of prog. cream for NBE. Also, I do have what I consider tubular breasts and have read elsewhere that NBE won't work for them. I believe a positive mind set is a must for growth and changing your body and did not want to set myself up for any negativity. However after being inspired and learning from all the great people here thought it was time, as someone else may learn from my experiences as well.

I have grown about 2 inches since the beginning of March.
I did add a program page and stats here this morning.

Any input would be welcome.
Thanks,
Cari



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Who grew while using progesterone cream?
April 25 2009, 11:25 PM

Hello Cari,

I just read your program and stats page and I must say that both your well thought out program and the success you have had with it is impressive! And, you are the only one that I have ever come across with tubular breasts to have success with NBE, and one of the very few who have had results using progesterone cream.

What is the logic behind your timing and dosage?

Wahaika



Cari
(Login Iwillgrow)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Who grew while using progesterone cream?
April 26 2009, 4:15 AM

Hi Wahaika,
Thank you for responding to my message and taking the time to read my stats/program page.

As for the logic behind my timing and dosage I must say that it has been a slow and cautious approach. The dosages I have chose are fairly low. I know that I have a extremely sensitive system when it comes to medications and herbs. I continually amaze my doctors on how much stuff affects my system. I am also allergic to a lot of medications. Unfortunately over the last 4 years I have been on a lot due to the Crohns. I have really learned to pay attention to my body and health and really listen to it. So a lot of my timing and dosage has been using intuition. Also, both my gynecologist and gastroenterologist tell me that the methotrexate I take does affect the ovaries and hormones, but cant tell me how. When I have grilled them on it they just say, we dont know, it has not been studied. However the gynecologist did think progesterone is good idea for me. (After I brought it up and asked spefically) So I felt small doses increasing slowly would be best for me.

I think my body really, really needed the progesterone. I have felt a lot better since using it in numerous ways. Again, I chose a very low dose. I also feel that less is more when taking anything.

I did not think I would grow just using progesterone cream alone. After reading this board and the other breast enhancement forum I did notice that most of the women that grew were using fenugreek. So I decided I would add it after a couple of months on the progesterone cream. Also since I just crave soy milk thought that it gave me a clue that I may be lacking in estrogen as well. I again think 1500mg/day is a low dose for a 38B from others experiences I have seen on these boards. I started with just 1 cap for a week, then 2 a day for another week, now on 3 a day. But I am noticing tiredness and my period came early so may back off to 1000mg a day. Also, have some acne starting. I am going to give it another week or so to adjust. I have also seen from others experiences here that too much too soon is not a good thing. It would seem that some have tried to go all out gang busters too soon getting excited that they can actually grow and regret it later and take two steps back.

I was considering adding Saw Palmetto at some point in the future. In the meantime have bought some mint tea and will try a cup a day. It seems that it would be more mild on my system.

Also, I know that I will never add fennel to my program. From my experiences with it in cooking and food I have a very strong aversion to it. And just know that it will not work for me.

So I think that I have had success for quite a few reasons. I think the methotrexate put me in pre menopause and I really needed the progesterone. Mine was at Zero.
All the women in my family have D cups. Massage has really raised my prolactin levels. And as I said before I have a really sensitive system and my body reacts strongly to anything I put in it. I am also intune with myself.

As far as the tubular breasts, I was very inspired by saggynymphs pictures. Mine are shaped a lot like hers. My thoughts are that I think my development was stopped due to my pregnancy at 14. If I put my hormones back in to a state of puberty, then why could they not finish developing? The base width of my breasts are starting to change. The are closer together now. I am still a little shy of posting pics, but would email them privately to get some feed back from someone else. Hopefully another gal out there with tubulars will see my success and will try NBE. As the information out there is now, they may get discouraged and will never know if it can work for them.

In my opinion mindset and massage are essential.
Again, thank you for your input,
Cari



Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Who grew while using progesterone cream?
April 27 2009, 4:27 PM

Cari,

Thank you! I hope that you do well battling Crohn's disease. Have you ever tried colloidal silver (like ASAP) to combat the inflamation?

Good luck in your NBE efforts!

Wahaika
Reply
#13

To Fengshui and others that have tried natural progesterone
July 26 2006 at 3:17 PM wsdm (Login wsdm)
Hello there ladies, any one tried natural Progesterone? how has it worked for you?

Fengshui, how has your progress been on progesterone?

Right now I am trying to gain a few pounds and keep to a massage routine. Everyone is different and in my case I really need to take in more calories so I can gain fat, I am too thin for NBE.

When the time is right I definitely will add Borage oil, Saw Palmetto and a prolactin stimulator.

I am a big supporter of progesterone cause I noticed in this menstrual cycle even though I am not doing anything really different in my life, except trying to eat more food, my breasts swelled a few days before my period came, suggesting that high levels of progesterone and estrogen will help me grow.





tammy
(Login tammyrita)
natural progesterone
July 26 2006, 4:48 PM

Hi wsdm, I just started using natural progesterone too and am totally convinced that it has been helpful in correcting my uneven breasts. The boobs also feel heavier and firmer. I only use it for 5-7 days in my cycle. I'm not sure if it would help anyone under the age of 35 but, I'm 37 and have been without a period since I was 29 and I believe the stuff is a godsend as my emotions are finally 'normal'. Are you currently using it - how has it affected you??
Good luck!!!

Tammy



tammy
(Login tammyrita)
oops
July 26 2006, 6:16 PM

Hi I guess i use the stuff more often like 9 to 10 days in my cycle. sorry.

Tammy



wsdm
(Login wsdm)
Re: To Fengshui and others that have tried natural progesterone
July 26 2006, 8:46 PM

Hey Tammy! No I have not started using it yet, I have not really started a routine yet. I am just trying to get more calories in my body and keep to massaging my breasts while I conitnue to research NBE.

I am glad progesterone has worked for you, I think for some of us progesterone will be a very good thing. I am going to be 32 in september so hopefully it will work for me too.

When do you take progesterone?

I am trying to figure out which days to add progesterone during the month.
I am not sure if I should take a little everyday or cycle it.



fengshui
(Login fengshuiTW)
SENIOR MEMBER
nothing so far
July 26 2006, 11:25 PM

hi, wsdm, i think i've been using progesterone cream for about 15 days, haven't noticed anything yet. i might even get less full on breasts, not sure but it feels like it, could be in my head.
anyways, my period were 2 days early and only lasted for 2 days, no spotting at all. very weird. however i will give it 3 months try. :-)



fengshui
(Login fengshuiTW)
SENIOR MEMBER
P.S.
July 27 2006, 1:12 AM

i forgot to mention i apply the progesteron cream on boobs everyday w/o stopping even on period. don't know if it's okay.



wsdm
(Login wsdm)
Re: To Fengshui and others that have tried natural progesterone
July 29 2006, 11:52 AM

Fengshui I think it is best to cycle the Progesterone, however I am trying to figure out when and on what days would be best to take progesterone.

Also Progesterone is not for everyone, I will post a conversation I had with Fawn for you

wsdm:
I would like to understand why low progesterone levels is needed for succesful NBE, any facts, opinions, hypothesis, theory welcome.

Fawnmarie:
It blocks estrogen receptors and reduces prolactin.

akira:
Ok this is the one thing I don't understand. If progesterone blocks estrogen receptors and reduces prolactin, why is it used in some people's routines? I know BE isn't only about high estrogen levels so i'm gathering its more of a balance thing? Yeah sorry for the stupidity in advance if this is explained somewhere else. I'm sure Fawn has answered this question so many times it isn't funny.

Fawnmarie:
Because it also helps restore the glandular tissues. Older women and women who have had children "involute" - which means their glandular tissue tends to atrophy away (this is actually a good thing because its necessary to prevent breast cancer).
However as you get older, they involute completely, and if you're still menstruating you want the glandular tissue to be maintained to retain shape and firmness of the breasts.
Progesterone is generally just good for you, it helps reduce the cellulite caused by excess estrogen, improves mood and sleep and sex drive, and some women would prefer to take the slower route with the benefits of progesterone thrown in. The body uses progesterone to make estrogen, and older women may not be making enough progesterone to make estrogen and testosterone.
It really is a very individual thing.



What I am getting from this and other material I have read is that progesterone is necessary for glandular development at perhaps the expense of fat storage in the breasts therfore cycling progesterone would be the best route to take.



wsdm
(Login wsdm)
Re: To Fengshui and others that have tried natural progesterone
July 29 2006, 12:30 PM

SugarQ has also given me ths link about hormone levels and breast growth.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...t=Abstract

The study showed:

In BCP (Birth Control Pills containing estradiol and progesterone) users,

"Breast size was strongly positively correlated with current oral contraceptive use during menstrual

cycle days 5-10

as well as days 18-23. "

Large breast sizes were significantly associated with high prolactin and luteinizing hormone levels and low follicle-stimulating hormone levels during cycle days 5-10.

During cycle days 18-23, larger breast sizes correlated with low endogenous progesterone levels.




For people who did not us BCP's


Breast size was significantly positively correlated with body mass index (weight (kg)/height (m)2), height, and weight in nonusers

In nonusers, during the follicular phase, breast size was significantly positively associated with insulin-like growth factor 1.

During the luteal phase, larger breast sizes were significantly associated with higher 17 beta-estradiol and progesterone levels and lower testosterone levels among nonusers.


the luteal phase runs on average 14 days it begins the day after ovulation about day 14 for most women and runs until the day before your period.




Jen
(Login js89)
EVE MEMBERS
Re: To Fengshui and others that have tried natural progesterone
July 29 2006, 2:52 PM

Thank you for all the info wsdm. I too have had some of these questions. I have had about a 10-15 pound weight gain since starting NBE and wonder if progesterone would help. Any info is appreciated.



fengshui
(Login fengshuiTW)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: To Fengshui and others that have tried natural progesterone
July 29 2006, 8:41 PM

thank you so much wsdm!!
i will now use it on day14~28 and will let u know if it makes difference. :-)
Reply
#14

Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 3 2007 at 5:27 PM Henri (Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hoping that one of you ladies here might be able to help me. My dr and I are still working out the issue with my "female problems" and one of the things she wants me to try out is the Progesterone Cream, not the synthetic but the natural one. I was supposed to start last month but by the time I got my cream my period came and I just didn't bother per instructions.

So anyway, today was day one of the cream, and I put it on last night as she (dr) instructed me, and today my boobs hurt so bad, its not funny..........is this normal? I am waiting for the dr to call me back, but thought I would throw it out there. I put the cream on my inner arms, and tonight will do my inner thighs, then neck, she also suggested the chest, but I've heard reports here against that.........could really use some feedback.

I am supposed to use this for the next two months and then we will re-evaluate what it does unless I have some adverse reaction. I've read some of what I can find here on the pc, but there is alot of information and I don't have the time to read everything right now.

Thanks




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 3 2007, 7:01 PM

Hi Henri,
I am glad your doctor is asking you to use the natural progesterone cream versus the synthetic kind. The natural is a completely different molecule from the synthetic and it behaves differently in the body.

One of the first reactions to progesterone cream (or for that matter any progesterone increase in the body for any reason) is that it activates dormant estrogen receptors. This can cause an initial worsening of estrogen dominance symptoms (the hurtin boobs). It will go away after a couple of cycles of continued use of the cream.

There is a slight possibility of allergic response, not to the progesterone, but rather to any other herbs that may be mixed with the type of cream you chose. The ingredients of all over the counter progesterone creams I have researched are different except for the USP grade progesterone.

I am glad you are consulting your doctor and hopefully she will advise you to continue. My initial response to progesterone cream was not only boob pains but an increase of an inch. Many people have this response to the cream, but apparently from reports from others on this board, not all.

I hope this will help you as much as progesterone cream has helped me. For me it was a God-send. My details are on the program page (title aaaa to start).

Good luck in your journey to good health,
waxingmoon



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 3 2007, 9:06 PM

Hi Waxingmoon - I was hoping you would reply!! I have read your program multiple times, devouring every bit of information I can from it!!!

I am not encouraged to hear that things will probably get worse before they get better, but am willing to try it out ;-) I really was hoping that was just your reaction!!! *grin*

Other then my boobs hurting I felt great this morning, happy and calm and content and normal, but now I am feeling like crap again - headache, achy and irritable!!!

My dr got back to me earlier and said that what I am experiencing is normal, she didn't really answer if it worked this fast (like 1 dose) but wants to be kept aware of my symptoms inlight of the anemia and having a hard time with herbs.
I really hope this will help me, otherwise I might have to have my uterus removed............so I might be bugging you with more questions.

Thanks for the encouragement!!





WiccanWoman
(Login WiccanWoman123)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 4 2007, 10:12 AM

Hugs henri. I too think I am going to give PM cream a try.. I need something cuz my hormones are just really low after hysterectomy. I hope whatever female troubles you are having resolve themselves. Though some of the benefits of having my Uterus removed are nice I have other "new" problems.. so its really just trading one for another.

The good..
No periods
No monthly interferrence with NBE I can do creams whenever I feel like it and take breaks as needed.
No cramps
No pain with sex
No PMS
No Cysts
No longer cold all the time
No spotting

The bad..
Hot flashes ( and yes I still have an overy but STILL have menopause issues)
Night sweats
Vaginal Dryness.. this one I really HATE
Lost feeling in my upper right hip, thigh and my lower belly due to a severed nerve. That is some thing that can happen during abdominal surgery.
Gaining weight.. in places I DON'T want it lol !
HATE my surgery scar.
Dry skin and losing that taughtness to my skin.
On top of NBE still trying to naturally balance my hormones with out having to take anything orally due to reactions.

After surgery I also went thru a painful lung inflamation, severe edema (swelling) of the legs and feet and it took months to recover. Its def a big choice to make to have your Uterus removed or not. I'n some ways I am glad I did other times I wish I had not. Anyone seriously considering it though should check out the Hystersisters website. Without them I would have been lost.

I wish you the best, please let me know how PM worked for you and how your doing.

Wic



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 4 2007, 12:25 PM

Hi Wic!!! I don't take having a hyst. lightly, although I would still have both ovaries I don't know if its considered a full hysterectomy. I don't want it all. But if we can't get my symptoms corrected then I might not have too much of a choice. I do know my doc will be doing it internally as opposed to externally, so I wouldn't have a scare that I can see, or anyone else that might have an interest down there ;-) She said I also wouldn't need to go on hormone therepay either since I would still have my ovaries. I am going to go in shortly and have a d&c done to see if that helps - which I am not looking forwad too.

I battle now, hot flashes, night sweats, vaginal dryness, and on and on, and I am no where near menopouse!

WaxingMoon - I know have cramps today, on top of breast pain and this blasted headache that hasn't left.........but the cramps have me nervous that my period might come early. And I am hungry - not for healthy food either, but chocolates, breads, pastas.....greasy pizza.........potato chips, and more that I won't mention because now I am getting hungry.....again. Last night I forced myself to eat a salad for dinner (which was filling) just to make up for all the crap I ate during the day, I so don't want more weight on my butt. Day 2 and I am already debating on whether or not I should apply more tonight!!! The plus side, the past 2 nights I have slept like a baby and have woken up refreshed and ready to face the day. This has not happened since early April, before I started to get ill......





Goatwoman
(Login Goatwoman)
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 4 2007, 6:45 PM

I keep trying the natural progesterone cream but each time I do I start to bleed even after my period. I put it on this morning and within an hour I started to bleed again. I don't know now if I should stop or just keep using it???? I am 45 with very irregular periods. I also noticed I do sleep better using the cream so did my mom.




WiccanWoman
(Login WiccanWoman123)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 5 2007, 4:00 AM

Well this makes sense. I did PM cream the last 3 nights and finally I got a full nights sleep. I am having some "Phantom" cramps like I used to on my period though. I'll give it a few weeks and see if they go away.



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 6 2007, 1:07 AM

Feeling better today - still hanging in here. Still sleeping like a rock and waking up feeling pretty darn good. My headache is gone.

Noticed my boobs feel swollen, but don't necessarily look bigger. They feel bigger!! DH even commented on them feeling different, they hurt so bad though and are so sensitive. I have had to use a little heat to help with the aching in them, and find myself waking up holding them too. Hopefully this will pass.

Oh yeah noticed that when I took pc at night, get headaches, but forgot last night and took it this morning and no headache - related?

Hows everyone else making out?



Wenonae
(Login wenonae)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 6 2007, 1:27 AM

Henri-

It seems you were estrogen dominant and high.

Avoid the breasts (cause progesterone really acts to 'release fats vs. store'), but I really think this is your thing because health and BE are all about the right ratios of the hormones for an individual. Sometimes when you use something new hormonally, your breasts respond. However, don't think that is your case.

Are you just applying it during the natural-high times of the cycle (like Days 18-28?). That might be something to discuss w/ your dr. if the instructions aren't already like that.

I think the time of the day you take it is important. I'd stick to the mornings. :-D


Wen'



Wenonae
(Login wenonae)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 6 2007, 1:37 AM

Wiccan-

Are you still dealing with the 'cancer' stuff? You've definitely had a rough go of things...at least you're in good spirits. :-D

Anyways, the scar...the Renaissance Cream will help with the reduction of it (if it's raised) along with 20,000i.u. vit E oil applied topically.

If the progesterone doesn't work out...maybe something close to it will like the BC Depo-Provera.

Wen'



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 6 2007, 12:39 PM

Wenonae - I am using the cream from day 12-28 or if my period starts sooner, its what my dr instructed. I was rotating where I applied it: arms, then thighs, then neck, then chest, then repeat, its was the dr. recommended. But I can avoid the chest if need be.

Also I am not taking pc for BE. Infact I am not taking anything for BE anymore. I know that you read through the posts frequently, but am not sure if you have read anything that has been going on with me. I can't take herbs anymore or anything else (bo or pm) for that matter for a min. of a year if then, my story is spread out through the posts, so I won't go into it.

I think I am going to stick to mornings. I felt good all day yesterday and didn't feel like it was wearing off by dinner the way I had been feeling. Now if my boobs would just stop hurting, my husband thinks I am fondling myself throughout the day, which is a turn on for him, but he doesn't really that they really really hurt!!

Still having horrible food cravings - cravings for junk food, and I am not a junk food person - especially chocolate, I just want chocolate, brownies, candybars, icecream, and greasy pizza (its like being pregnant!!!). I am not like this with my period, so its really weird.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 6 2007, 1:00 PM

Hi Henri,
Sounds like you are doing well. I know the side effects are a little strong right now, but it is just the estrogen receptors waking up and it will pass in a few cycles. I never got the cramp feelings, but my breasts responded quite a bit. I know I have said this before about my growing and keeping an inch of growth from the PC, but what I don't mention as much is that during the first two months, that inch was actually two inches. There was an inch of swelling that came and went during the first 3 months or so. Let me tell you, I was SORE during that time.

By the way if you prefer you can break your dosage up and apply it morning and night. I did that at first and it is recommended to allow for better absorption. It does mean you have to have a lot of sites to keep the rotations up though.

Here are some great absorption sites:

Inside of arms, behind knee, tops of feet, center of chest (not breasts), rib areas at sides, back of neck, front of neck, backs of hands (best at night so you don't wash it off -and keep off fingertips so you don't accidentally rub it in your eyes during sleep) ---these are all areas of high blood flow and low fat. I initially used the tops of my thighs, but let me tell you, that is not a 'low fat' area on me right now... lol.

I did use it on my breast for one reason only and that was to control a fibrocystic lump in my left breast. I would apply it to the breast every third application. It took several months but it successfully dealt with that problem.

It is interesting to hear how everyone is talking about the effect on sleep. That was also the effect for me and one of the reasons I still use it now. My dosage has dropped back to about 10 - 20 mg and I use it about every other day of 12-28. It works like a charm. If I am having trouble sleeping I can apply a dose and snooze city.

Glad you are doing well,
waxingmoon



Goatwoman
(Login Goatwoman)
PC
October 6 2007, 1:22 PM

I am also noticing some food cravings and the feeling of extreme hunger which is different for me. I do hope this will fade as I continue using the cream. Can women such as my mom who has went through menopause ( she is over 65 ) use the cream daily without breaks?



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 6 2007, 1:55 PM

I really wouldn't advise using PC without taking a break. The book 'What your doctor may not tell you about menopause' by Dr John Lee talks all about the use of PC during menopause.



Goatwoman
(Login Goatwoman)
Good article on PC
October 6 2007, 2:26 PM

This article did help me a lot understanding doses of PC. Scroll to the very bottom for women like my mom with no cycles. He said some can "take a break" one week out of the month, but so many women felt bad during that week he suggested continued use.

http://www.millennium-healthcare.com/new..._cream.htm




Goatwoman
(Login Goatwoman)
Tri-Gesterone DAILY
October 6 2007, 2:48 PM

Has anyone heard of or used this one? Daily takes a lot of the guess work out of using this cream. It would make life much easier for me who can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

http://vitaleffects.com/pages/ingredients.html




Wenonae
(Login wenonae)
SENIOR MEMBER
Glad Waxingmoon posted...
October 6 2007, 7:10 PM

Hi Henri-

I actually haven't gotten to the posts where you described not being able to do any type of BE (but could see that in your starter post), but wasn't trying to provide input about doing BE..just commenting how it's all related. Also commented on what your hormonal status is. Waxingmoon has hit all the rest the nose and I'm glad she's shared about her PC experience before.

Just as aside, I think you'll be gaining breasts (like 1.2-1.5 cups) as a 'side effect' because you're getting healthy. The times you're taking it...it's a good place to start. Definitely pay attention to how your body's responding. It it all wears off by early evening...maybe try using it a little later in the morning so it lasts until you go to sleep.

As far as your cravings- if you're not a good vitamin supplement- do so. The chocolate craving usually indicates you that need a bit of magnesium. At least 150mg daily. This one looks great for ya. http://www.vitacost.com/Pomology-Womens-...in-Formula

Wen' Big Grin





WiccanWoman
(Login WiccanWoman123)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 7 2007, 9:46 AM

Wen, Yes I go in for my full biopsy and blood work in 2 days. (Dr says he has never seen a case with a growth as large as mine not be cancer though) About a week after we'll know how good or bad it all is and when I will need to have surgery and or possibly radiation treatment.

Thier still sorting out my "other" health issues. Need to be retested for Lupus 2-3 more times before they feel comfortable ruling it out, MS and Fibro are still possible too.

I have a good Hubby and great support from friends so that keeps me upbeat and after being sick for years i'm just happy to be getting some answers.

Sorry Henri, don't wanna hijack your thread... I tried the cream on my thighs last night and they itched like crazy all day. Think I will stick to my palms, back of hand and tops/soles of feet. Hubby told me today though "I see you wore your water bra out." Told him nope had reg bra on and he was amazed said they look bigger so maybe progesterone is helping some with it. It also seems to be helping my vaginal dryness problem. So far I'm happy with progesterone cream.



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Hello Everyone!
October 7 2007, 9:24 PM

Wen - I didn't take it as input regarding NBE, just that you were offering advice. I just wanted to let you know that I am not doing BE anymore, so no one has to wonder if its a side effect from BE or from the progesterone cream. My iron dropped seriously low to the point I almost went in for a blood transfusion back in June and I have spent the remainder of the summer trying to get better. Although my levels have been doing good, everytime I try to start back up, they dip low again. So my dr said no more for a min. of a year.

I have found that morning, which is 10ish for me, is the perfect time. It doesn't were off at all, or I don't notice it until the next morning. I am terrible with supplements :-) except iron!!, so perhaps I will try that again. Last time I took them, they made me very sick.

WaxingMoon - thanks for the ideas of were to apply, I was wondering what all the areas were, and the rotation. My boobs are still sore - very sore, sometimes I catch myself wondering if I was actually holding my boobs in public - I must look like a riot!! I am not measuring, because I don't care if they grow or not. I am not expecting it or hoping for it, but will say that my smaller right boob, now looks almost identical to my larger left boob!!! The only difference now, is the right one isn't as defined, if that makes any sense at all.

Wiccan - Hijack away!!! I am sorry to hear things aren't going well for you. I am glad to hear that your Hubby is so supportive. Mine was never really helpful until I got sick and then I realized just how great he was.

I notice that when I first apply it anywhere, I have a slight itchy feeling for about 5mins and then it goes away. I am pleased so far with how I seem to be reacting, I just really wish my boobs would stop hurting, I feel like a broken record......



Wenonae
(Login wenonae)
SENIOR MEMBER
K, Good Henri :-)
October 7 2007, 9:34 PM

We're on the same page.
Be sure to talk to your dr. about a good multi.
I'm glad you've got a dr. that's got some aptitude. Not all of them do. Those are the ones that will say, "O, herbs can't do that to you..." LOL.

Wen'



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Ummm Help!
October 8 2007, 4:41 PM

I have noticed that on the days that I apply the cream to my upper body: arms, neck, ribs - that I do really well during the days: not irritable, weepy, moody etc. BUT on the days that I apply the cream on my lower body I do horrible: weepy irritable, moody. Is this normal? I am half tempted to just avoid my lower body altogether and just rotate throughout my upper half since I am only using it once a day.

Right now I put the cream on my lower half - behind the knees, and seriously am tempted (and probably will) to apply some on my upper half to just get some relief. I feel anxious, jumpy, am snapping at my kids, and altogether feel like crap, like I didn't even take it. These were just some of the symptoms I haven't battled in almost a week, and so don't want to battle. I can't even think straight at the moment. - Help ME!!!!

I promise I won't complain about how much my boobs hurt anymore!! LOL



This message has been edited by henriettahippo on Oct 8, 2007 4:43 PM




Wenonae
(Login wenonae)
SENIOR MEMBER
Do what works!
October 8 2007, 5:47 PM

:-P

Suffering is not obligatory. Rotate the upper half only...until it stops working then find other spots. It's different strokes for diff folks...or should I say spots??

Wen'



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 8 2007, 7:56 PM

Hi Henri,
I agree with Wenonae, do what makes you feel the best. For me the anxiety relief was the best when I would apply it to the front of my neck.

It makes sense really. The upper part of our body is closer to the heart so greater blood supply travels to and from those areas. The warmer the area you are applying it to the better the absorption (because warmth means more blood supply).

The anxiety reducing effect for me was instantaneous from the first time I used the stuff. I really got attached to using it and it was very hard for me to wait those 12 days before I could use it again. I found out the hard way that waiting was necessary because you can stop your body from ovulating if you use it too soon in your cycle. Ovulation is what allows our body to develop the corpus luteum which is what creates most of our monthly progesterone.

I finally began using vitex just so I could make it to day 12 (I felt like a progesterone junky jonesing for my fix on days 1 - 11). It took about 3 months for the vitex to kick in but finally it did and I felt more normal. Since you are under doctor's orders I don't suggest you try the vitex without her approval, but it might be an option for you as well.

best wishes,
waxingmoon



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 9 2007, 1:30 AM

Hi All ~ I gave in and applied alittle more about 1/8 of a tsp. on my neck and within about 10 minutes I felt calm again, and not as jumpy.

WaxingMoon - I so hear your "junkie" addiction, its kinda how I felt this morning, like I needed a fix. Don't know how I will do on days 1-11. I usually don't have a problem during the first half of my cycle, or so I think. My husband though has commented on how nice I have been as of late, and when I ask him how long he noticed me being "nice" he said almost a week or so!!!! Maybe I really am a monster ;-p Hopefully I won't have a problem the first 11 days, but I won't know until I get there.

I have learned my lesson and will be sticking with my upper half for a while, and then going from there.






Sarah
(no login)
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 10 2007, 6:55 AM

Could someone tell me if Puritan's Pride Progesterone Cream considered natural or synthetic? If it's not natural, is there a natural brand you can recommend? I live in Singapore so it's hard to get some of these things shipped to me at a reasonable price. How should the cream be applied? Should I rub or massage it in vigorously? Other than applying the cream, what other things should one do if one is 34AAA? Thanks in advance.



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
What Did I Do Wrong?
October 10 2007, 9:25 PM

This week has begun to get super stressfull, and I feel like the PC isn't working for me anymore. I just seem really irritable and moody. Could the stress be doing this? Should I up my dose? Should I let it be? I don't know what to do a.t.m., so if I could just get some feedback I would appreciate it.


PC Junkie - Henri!



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 10 2007, 9:40 PM

Whoa Nellie there Henri!

You just started on Oct 3 and now it is Oct 10. It is still working for you, but it cannot do everything by itself in just 1 week. Give it time and all will be well.

How much did your doctor tell you to take? Stay with that unless you get the doctor's okay to do more. I was following the advice Dr John Lee outlined in his book. I took more than what most people started with. Should you do the same? I don't know what to say. His writings were very reassuring to me that I was not hurting myself with what I was doing -BUT - I did not have the same health problems you have recently been going through. That is why I think you should talk to your doctor before increasing your dosage.

Split your dosage up if you need to. A little in the morning and some for these 'crazy' times.

You are going to be okay. Just step away from the PC bottle and nobody will get hurt ... lol.

Yeah - I have been there. Talk to the Doc - ask what is the maximum amount you can take.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
WaxingMoon - A BIG THANKS
October 10 2007, 10:05 PM

HAHA!!! That was so funny. Do you know I never actually considered applying more this afternoon, I was actually referring to tomorrow!!! Wow I am blonde (no offense to blondes here!!!)

DR. said just 1/4 tsp a day, so maybe I will try splitting it, half in the morning and half at the afternoonish.

I was just worried there, things were going great I was feeling really good, and then BAM!!! Stress and it feeling like the PC isn't work. Its probably all just the stress though. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything wrong

Oh by the way (she says in a whisper) my nips are staring to itch really bad, so now I am holding my boobs and scratching at the same time - I must look a site!!! LOL

I'll give it more time - alot more time, and I'll try to stop worrying about so much!!

The bottle is away and I promise I won't touch it, look at it, or drool over it until Tomorrow!!!



HDChick
(Login HDChick)
Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
October 24 2007, 6:45 PM


Good Day Ladies!
This is an Awesome Post.
Exactly what I was searching for as I am on Day 5 Of Pro Cream
and things are going great- more energy- once I get to sleep, it is
very soundly and waking up late but rested- few headaches here and there
and Today My Boobs Hurt

By the looks of what I read - I am normal

Thanks to all NBE Poster's -
Big Hugs with Boobs!

The HD Chick
Christine



FY Spirit
(Login FY_Spirit)
Are Progesterone Cream safe?
October 28 2007, 3:33 AM

Hi. I was planning on buying progesterone cream and whilst searching online for sellers I came across this site:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2007/10/hormonethrpy.shtm

It talks about mis-selling by online PC sellers and even gives the names of the brands that have been charged by the Federal Trade Commission.

Should we be concerned or is this not related to boobie growing at all?

I read further up that we shouldn't rub PC directly onto breasts, but didn't quite understand why. Can someone explain please?

Cheers xx



HDChick
(Login HDChick)
Question Regarding Progesterone Cream
November 1 2007, 12:36 PM

I am using Elation Therapy, USP 560 mg - Purchased on Ebay. I did a lot of research
also because of the law suits and come to realize that being a Natural product, it can NOT be absolutely proven as body's react differently. What I do care about is United States Pharmacopoeia (USP) is the official public standards-setting authority for all prescription and over-the-counter medicines, ...

This is my 2nd week of use. I know it is working for me. AS a matter-of-fact I have so much energy right now it's only 430 AM and I am fully rested! Usually- I am not up until 6 or 7.
I started 2 doses 3 days ago and believe I will cut that back. The first week was difficult with the head and body aches -incl Boobs. Boobie growth is going great for
me and I do have a Program posted.

on your Fat Cells Question- http://superb-progesterone-cream.com/
( I wish we could read all posts when answering a question )


As beneficial as natural progesterone cream is, we must be aware that we are dealing with a very delicate system - the endocrine system. According to Dr. Joseph Mercola: "The problem relates to the fact that progesterone is highly fat soluble and once applied to the skin will store itself in a woman's fat tissue. When one first uses the cream, there is no problem here as the fat stores are very low. But as time goes on, the cream accumulates and contributes to disruptions in the adrenal hormones such as DHEA, cortisol, and testosterone. I have learned that although progesterone cream is an enormously useful tool, it needs to be used very cautiously."
Reply
#15

Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008 at 12:31 AM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Just came across your post in the info on herbs section about risks of PC (which basically seems to mean cancer), bearing in mind that they are saying that PC causes the body to react homeostatically to raise estrogen levels wouldn't this be good for boob growth? Also they keep saying that 'at the menopause' the hormonal decline is there to protect from cancer but if we're young and not got family history that shouldn't be a problem.

Did you think that article was a reliable source?

I remember you saying that PC would be ignored by the body if we take BCP but I know of at least one person using both and she seems to be doing well. I'm willing to rub it on for a few months and risk wasting the money if nothing happens if that's the main risk to be taken. I don't think I'm estrogen dominant although doing the hormone imbalamce symptom quiz I had about half in every category and nearly all for high androgens, interestingly BCP seems to have stopped my night sweats when you would expect extra estrogen to make it worse, or maybe it's just because it's winter? I don't really get that moody with my period but I get a few cramps - would PC help with that? Have you know of people using it primarily for boobs? I know you said you grew with it.




waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 3:34 AM

Hi Louise,
As much as I like Progesterone cream and as much as I think it is a great solution for those suffering from estrogen dominance, I do not promote it as an NBE solution.

Progesterone cream should be used for balancing an unbalanced hormone situation. It is far too risky to use in any other way. To add progesterone to a body that already has sufficient amounts of it is to invite disaster. I am not just talking about an increased risk of cancer (there is some risk, and yes it is minimal...but... and yes the article was fairly accurate) I am also talking about creating the very symptoms that progesterone is used to treat.

Too much progesterone is as bad of a thing as too much estrogen. Although it is hard to create a progesterone overload with a single application of a bunch of progesterone, continued use of the cream either above the recommended dosage or by someone who already has enough progesterone could result in overdose.

My discovery and use of progesterone was a God-send to a list of symptoms that I had been suffering from for decades. It was a coincidence that it happened to be a NBE positive thing for me. I did not use it in order to affect NBE - in fact I only began to research NBE after I had such a response to the progesterone cream. I wanted to find out what was happening to me.

If you have many of the estrogen dominance symptoms then progesterone cream might be useful - to get rid of the ED. If you do not have the symptoms, but are experiencing PMS symptoms then I would recommend Vitex.

If you are determined to go ahead with progesterone cream - Please read Dr. John Lee's book first. Maybe it will convince you that this is not the right thing for you. Maybe you will find out your symptoms could be helped with PC. He does state that the benefits of PC are not available to those on BCP since the artificial progestins block the receptors.

Again - progesterone cream is for the treatment of progesterone deficiency - I do not recommend it for just growing boobs. There is too much risk of negatively affecting health for it to be used in this way. (plus it is very likely that it would have little effect in this way to those who were not progesterone deficient)

Take care,
waxingmoon



crissy
(Login shyra08)
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 4:46 AM

waxingmoon, If Progesterone cream is soo bad why are you using it? You just don't want anyone else to grow boobs,you are being very selfish!!!!



Linz
(no login)
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:10 PM

No,She's not like that at all, she's always helpful/supportive Smile

She's just saying you should use it with caution, which most people agree with. It is powerful stuff - you shouldn't use it haphazardly.

xx



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:15 PM

Shyra - have you seen the trouble Waxingmoon goes to in answering all of the posts, how can you call her selfish, shut up and grow up!



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:19 PM

Waxingmoon - Thanks for that, what sort of negative consequences? The main thing that concerns me is hair loss! Or obviously weight gain. I really would like to ask my gynae about all this stuff but sadly I'll probably be too embarassed. Would the symptoms of overload worsen as I increased the dose then reduce as I lowered the dose? Would it be obvious that I was getting a negative reaction? Could medical testing monitor me? I don't mind paying for whatever works and ideally would like to do it responsibly which is why I didn't just double up on my BCPs and hope for the best!



Henri
(Login henriettahippo)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 12:52 PM


Waxingmoon - Apparently you are withholding boob growth from me, would you please forward it on, as I seem to have not gotten any while using pc and would very much appreciate it? ;-) (-;

This month has been really good - I dropped my dosage in half, as the higher amount was making me kinda ditzy, or as my husband kindly put it "our you drunk?" so I don't know what that was about - because I thought I was acting perfectly normal, but apparently I was too mello. Doing better on this dose though, and will stick with it for a while. Am feeling really good though, so we shall see how the end of the month goes.

Sorry Louise for taggin onto your message, just want to drop a note before I forgot and didn't want to start a new thread.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 2:32 PM

Hi Louise,

Here is the list of estrogen dominance symptoms- copied from the book 'What your doctor may not tell you about premenopause' by Dr. John Lee. As you can see there are quite a few. I include this so you and others can evaluate whether you have a condition that progesterone will treat. In order to consider yourself estrogen dominant you should have 5 or more of these symptoms. You will notice that small boobs does not appear on the symptom list.. lol


Acceleration of the aging process
Allergy symptoms
Auto-immune disorders
Breast cancer
Breast tenderness
Cervical dysplasia
Cold hands and feet as a symptom of thyroid dysfunction
Copper excess
Decreased sex drive
Depression with anxiety or agitation
Dry eyes
Early onset of menstruation
Endometrial cancer
Fat gain -especially around the abdomen, hips and thighs
Fibrocystic breasts
Foggy thinking
Gallbladder disease
Hair loss
Headaches
Hypoglycemia
Increased blood clotting
Infertility
Irregular menstrual cycles
Irritability
Insomnia
Magnesium deficiency
Memory loss
Mood swings
Osteoporosis
PMS
Polycystic ovaries
Premenopausal bone loss
Prostate cancer (obviously this one is about men)
Sluggish metabolism
Thyroid dysfunction mimicking hypothyroidism
Uterine cancer
Uterine fibroids
Water retention, bloatiing
Zinc deficiency

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now here is the list of what too much progesterone can do to you:

Immune effect - at normal levels, progesterone enhances immune function, but above normal levels it will depress immune function. (this has been studied in transplants to reduce organ rejection)

Brain effect - in the brain progesterone reduces brain cell excitability -which in normal levels will aid in concentration. At higher than normal levels progesterone has been used as an anticonvulsant. If levels are higher than normal for greater than 6 months times there will be a lethargic effect and possible depression.

Uterine effect - reduction in growth of endometrial lining of uterus (one way to treat endometriosis). At high levels it will stop menstruation. At high levels there will be a suppression of ovulation.

Gastric effect - at higher than normal levels there can be abdominal bloating and discomfort. This is thought to be attributed to a suppressive effect on the digestive system. (Beth - check out Dr David Zava - he did some studies on the digestive effects of excess progesterone)

Endocrine effect - Higher than normal levels of progesterone have been linked to excess cortisol which will cause increased appetite and weight gain around the abdomen.


This may not be as impressive of a list, but that first one should cause anyone to take pause. Depressing your immune function is bad news. And you could get every one of the overload symptoms and have not achieved any increase in breast size. Remember progesterone cream is a potent hormone. It should be used for the right reason and used with caution.

Henri, I think you were experiencing a little bit of overload since it was making you too mellow.

Louise - have I recommended the book by Dr Lee??? ...lol. I think you should check it out. You might benefit from PC use, but do a little more research first. Better safe than sorry.

Crissy/shyra - yeah, I bought up all the progesterone cream they make, so the only way you can get it is through me... and as you have already pointed out - I'm not sharing!!! lol

waxingmoon (just selfishly keeping PC to myself... lol)



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Waxingmoon - downsides of PC
March 13 2008, 2:40 PM

I probably ahve about 8-9 of those when I'm off the pill and a few of them anyway but the kind of vague ones, I was also suspect for endometriosis but never really followed it up. Not sure about early onset of menstruation, I just turned 11 when I started regularly but I think I had a little spotting when I was about 9 but didn't understand what it was. My maternal grandmother (who I'm very similar to in every way) also started age 11, my mum didn't start until she was 15 so I was young in that sense, is the average about 12-13?
Reply
#16

Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 17 2008 at 7:35 PM Louise (Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER

I keep being told that you shouldn't use progesterone cream just for boob growth? Why not? What does it actually do to you? If it's not going to make me drop dead or go bald I might be willing to chance it!




Sunflower
(Login ssunflower)
Re: Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 17 2008, 7:44 PM

I can't give you the exact answer but Dr. Lee goes into the negative of too much progestorone in his book. I read it awhile ago.



Linn
(Login linn7880)
progesterone cream
October 17 2008, 8:27 PM

Hi Louise,

It is right that it is written in dr. lees book. I have thought of this myself.Dr. lee says that women who use to much progesterone may find their breasts considerably enlarged. He dont recommend it because the effect will wear off when progesterone levels return to normal, possibly resulting in sagging breasts.(An effect familiar to women who have nursed their babies)
I do'nt understand this argument if you are small you will probably not sag and maybe it is better to be bigger and sag than being small..?

So why does he not reccomend it I write it just as he has written it..
1) Excess progesterone exhausts or otherwise reduces receptor sensitivity so that its benefits are often lost.
2)Too much progesterone can make an hormonal imbalance
3) if progesterone levels are higher than normal for more than six months, people become mentally lethargic and even depressed. this happens most often with oral, micronized progesterone and high-dose creams.Fourtunataly, the effects of using too high a dose of progesterone over time is reverisble by returning to normal levels of progesterone.

He says that people who use too much progesterone experience significant abdominal bloating and discomfort, which he belives is due to a suppressive effect on the digestive system. He has also seen evidence that excessive progesterone may drive cortisol levels too high, resulting in cortisol excess symptoms such as increased appetite and weight gain, particulary around abdomen.

As far as i can see the danger must be if the cortisol levels goes to high and you get a heart attack, but think that you must take very much to do such harm..

Maybe anybody else such as waxingmoon knows more about the progesterone cream..
Hope this helped.



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 18 2008, 4:28 AM

Hi Louise, (I wanted to try and answer your question, but I also want you to know I am talking to the 'audience' at large and not just to you - I know you have a science background, so I know you know some of these things already)

Here is a link to a website that is very anti-progesterone:

http://www.gaiaresearch.co.za/progestero...erone_myth

Its stance is perhaps too far into the 'progesterone use will kill you' kind of perspective, but it does bring up some valid points.

Progesterone is a hormone and as such it should be used as sparingly as possible and only to support a true deficiency. There are reports of progesterone causing the proliferation and growth of existing cancers. Supplementing a single hormone when the body system is set up to work with a complex mixture of hormones is a risky thing. If you increase any hormone above what is natural to the body there is a great risk of harm. For example, originally doctors just prescribed estrogen only for birth control or hormone replacement - then they noticed an unmistakable link to uterine cancer. That is why no woman will be given estrogen only supplements unless she has undergone a hysterectomy.

Even if we believe the risk of cancer from using progesterone is not very great there are also other issues of progesterone overdose. Linn stated these as she quoted Dr Lee. Basically the very benefits derived from the proper use of progesterone are reversed with the overdose of progesterone.

As far as NBE is concerned - there is no direct link to progesterone cream causing breast enlargement in every women or even most women. It happens in some, but several people have reported in this forum that it has not happened for them. I was one of the few that reported growth from its use, but lets get something straight here. I had practically no breast tissue at all. I increased by an inch in size, but I was still not even an A cup - more like aaa or smaller AFTER this growth. This kind of reaction would probably only be likely in someone who was seriously deficient in progesterone as I once was.

Slathering on large amounts of progesterone cream is not the road to breast enlargement - it is a direct highway to serious hormonal imbalance and possibly to increased risk of cancer.

Check out that link to the website. When I read it I had to seriously consider my use of progesterone cream and it is one of the reasons I use it as sparingly as I can and only when my symptoms justify it. Just for the record, I am not currently using it and have not for over 2 cycles. I will not use it again unless my estrogen dominance symptoms return.

Remember - there is nothing more valuable than your health. No one is going to be raving about your huge breasts if they are looking at you in a casket. Be very careful.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



Linn
(Login linn7880)
Re: Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 18 2008, 9:51 AM


Hi waxingmoon,

I read a bit on the page you recommended. It was scary..I would like to know the truth about estrogen/progesterone and cancer.I bought some cream from a site of dr.lee and it was called progesterAll it contains 2 ounces/ 56 gram.
I have just used it once, I found out it was very difficult for me since I never know when my period will come. So I just put some cream on when I got the cream..I think I rather will use vitex and later phytoestrogens..Do you know if the cream i bought is a good one?



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 18 2008, 7:58 PM

Hi Waxingmoon,

Was there anything in there specifically? I read the first few pages but it's very disjointed and I'm not sure I wouldn't prefer the tablets to the cream. They mention something about contraceptive pills and how this shows all the negative effects of taking progesterone but the pill makes me feel so much better and I think I did grow with it when I was young. I'm not intending to either take this for life, take a huge overdose or take it for the full month.

I've often wondered what would happen if I upped my dose of my contraceptive pills - any ideas?

I can't believe the body uses cholesterol to make progesterone though - I should be making the cream I eat so much fat! Is there anything I could take that would encourage it to use more cholesterol in this way?



waxingmoon
(Login waxingmoon)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 19 2008, 4:08 PM

Hi Louise,

Yeah that article is a disjointed mess, obviously slapped together by somebody on a mission to prove their point. Sort of a "I hate progesterone so I will cobble together every article I can find about negative effects of progesterone".

Down near the end of it all (and yeah I did read it all... gasp) there are some articles that site scientific studies which allowed me to see through all the progesterone hate. These are the conclusions I reached.

1. Progesterone is a hormone and as such should be treated with care.
2. Some cancers are progesterone sensitive and also since progesterone use does increase estrogen receptor activity, those cancers which are estrogen sensitive could also be promoted.
3. No article sited an actual case of cancer being caused by progesterone, but rather existing cancers being promoted by progesterone.
4. Any hormone taken above what is natural for the body becomes a liability.
5. Progesterone levels rise during pregnancy much higher than normal for 9 months duration and there has never been a link between multiple pregnancies and higher risks of cancer.
6. There is a big difference between artificial progesterone (progestins) and natural progesterone (which includes the progesterone manufactured from wild yam in the lab). The biggest difference being the shape of the molecule.

Here is something else regarding the pill form versus the cream. You will get only 30% of what you take in internally via the pill. 70% of oral progesterone is filtered out by the liver. This is quite a toxic load for the liver to deal with and makes the pill form that much more undesirable.

Taking your BCP at higher levels does not sound like a good idea to me. BCP has long been associated with higher risk of stroke. Taking more would increase your risk.

Yeah, it is too bad that we can't just push a button somewhere on ourselves and select what we want the body to do with things like cholesterol... lol. But here is something that makes logical sense to me. The HDL (good) cholesterol takes cholesterol from the blood stream to the liver where it is made into various things. Doing things that promote the rise of HDL and the lowering of LDL cholesterol should enhance hormone building. Omega 3 and Omega 6 fatty acids raise HDL and lower LDL. So increasing mono-unsaturated and polyunsaturated fats in our diet through use of olive oil, canola oil, nuts, seeds and fatty cold water fish as well as flax seed oil could have a very desirable effect. I believe this is why so many women report good NBE effect from EPO, borage and flax seed oils. With hormone production in mind it would also be good to avoid trans fats which cause the lowering of HDL and the rise of LDL (plus heart disease and cancer). So look on labels and drop the trans fat out of your life.

Anyway, I hope this is food for though.

Best wishes,
waxingmoon



Louise
(Login Louise1982)
SENIOR MEMBER
Re: Progesterone Cream - Negatives?
October 19 2008, 8:00 PM

No-one in my family has ever had a stroke, my nan's sister died of a heart attack at 70 and my grandad died at 79 of alzheimers, everyone else in my family has made it to at least their mid-80s. My nan's the only person in my family to have had cancer (cervical), she got diagnosed at 84 and got the all-clear at 89. I'm not worried about vascular risks, and I agree with what you say about high levels of progesterone during pregnancy - I don't intend to do any of this long term, it's too much effort! There's something called 'Climen' that's pretty low dose you can buy on the internet or otherwise I might discuss it with my gynae but just haven't got the guts to ask her about boobs. The reason I like the idea of cyproterone is that I've taken it before - did give me a few funny migraines and possibly one attack of double vision but I know I've got an eye muscle imbalance so maybe I was just tired.
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