[Candace]

Mucuna is just dilute L-DOPA, which mainstream medicine considers too dangerous to use except in Parkinson's where the patients can no longer produce enough of their own dopamine. L-DOPA is what causes Parkinson's patients to eventually wiggle uncontrollably (dyskinesia). Additionally, you could be desensitizing your dopamine receptors and/or downregulating the levels of your enzymes that produce your own L-DOPA.

Prescription L-DOPA is combined with carbidopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine outside of the brain. (Premature conversion causes side effects and wastes the drug. The same is true of 5-HTP. Unlike tryptophan, 5-HTP becomes serotonin outside of the brain, which can cause heart valve fibrosis or pulmonary hypertension.)

[Lotus]

Mucuna is just dilute L-DOPA, which mainstream medicine considers too dangerous to use except in Parkinson's where the patients can no longer produce enough of their own dopamine. L-DOPA is what causes Parkinson's patients to eventually wiggle uncontrollably (dyskinesia). Additionally, you could be desensitizing your dopamine receptors and/or downregulating the levels of your enzymes that produce your own L-DOPA.

Prescription L-DOPA is combined with carbidopa to prevent it from being converted to dopamine outside of the brain. (Premature conversion causes side effects and wastes the drug. The same is true of 5-HTP. Unlike tryptophan, 5-HTP becomes serotonin outside of the brain, which can cause heart valve fibrosis or pulmonary hypertension.)

From what I've read mucuna pruriens has been used for over 4500 years in Ayurvedic Indian medicine.

L-DOPA from mucuna pruriens has been shown to be safer and more effective for controlling Parkinson's disease than the pharmaceutical drugs Levodopa and Carbidopa. This is because the vast array of other chemical constituents that accompany L-DOPA in the unprocessed plant also play a role in its ability to manage Parkinson's disease. Since Parkinson's is in large part a deficiency of the neurotransmitter dopamine, this adaptogenic herb is crucial for anyone looking to manage this disease. It also looks to be very promising as a treatment for recovering drug addicts and people suffering from depression related illness, since these people have deficiencies of the neurotransmitters serotonin and dopamine (which the velvet beans contain and help balance in the human body).

A review of the clinical evidence for complementary and alternative therapies in Parkinson's disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25143234

[Candace]

Whether or not mucuna is safer than L-DOPA for Parkinson's patients is irrelevant to performing a risk-benefit calculation for a healthy person. In this study, mucuna caused the same dyskinesias as L-DOPA/carbidopa. Who wants to risk damaging their nervous system just to lower prolactin?

Mucuna is not a promising treatment for addiction or depression. A PubMed search yields zero hits. It's not on any professional's radar, and for good reason. As a rule of thumb, first you choose receptor inhibitors. If that doesn't work you try receptor agonists. Only after failing those two do you dare trying neurotransmitter precursors.

[Lotus]

What's "relevant" is that nobody is a medical expert here. NBE should be done under medical supervision, does it happen?, probably not. The importance of everyone doing their own research cannot be stressed enough, regardless of what info is posted in BN. I've been my own test subject, my NBE program is my own experience, I share that knowledge of what I've learned (good and bad). Sure, I've made mistakes, but I'm not in the habit of providing "Who wants to risk it" type of information. If you have specific "Relevant" info concerning what's posted I suggest you provide more research regarding as such rather than personal bias. I don't mind opposing views, and this is not an attempt to stifle discussions, far from it. I'll also point out that in the short amount of time you've been here you've provided valuable info thus far. Thanks.


My own personal opinion is that BN members face a bigger problem of drug and herb interactions (that includes members prescription meds). The potential of that risk should have more "relevance" here.

[rocketmelon]

Dear lotus I love you this is sooooo helpful C; a very happy rocket wishes you a good day haha c;

[Candace]

If you have specific "Relevant" info concerning what's posted I suggest you provide more research regarding as such rather than personal bias.

I have no bias towards or against either natural or synthetic therapies. I judge each substance on its own merits. I believe that the study I cited and the well-known incurable side-effect of mucuna's active ingredient provide a legitimate reason to warn people away from mucuna.

If I had a prolactin problem that didn't respond to chasteberry, I'd try to get some pramipexole. And I would refuse a prescription for any of the numerous dopamine agonists that are ergot derivatives, because they all carry some risk of heart valve fibrosis.

[skyeeeee]

Thanks Lotus!
I've decided to add Vitamin E, C and Fenugreek and also start taking MSM throughout since I read it helps to stimulate collagen production and has great benefits for growing hair since I'm trying to grow mine out anyways!
I do have another question! During my follicular phase, I am currently taking PM, Wild Yam and calcium (to help PM absorb better). I will be adding in MSM once it arrives .. but are there any other complimenting herbs that I could add in or should I stick to this?
Thank you for your help, you are a star!

[WannaBePearShaped]

Omg!Thanks Lotus!Im going to add vitamin E to my regimen and take 400 IU of it...now the question is...how should I cycle it?

[Candace]

400 IU of vitamin E (alpha tocopherol) has the side effect of squashing your levels of the beta, gamma, and delta tocopherols, and they're important too. See AOR's article for details. The typical "mixed tocopherols" supplement which does not list a breakdown will be 80% alpha/20% others, and since the liver gives alpha preferential retention, the 20% makes no difference at all: both 800 IU alpha and 800 IU alpha plus 20% mixed tocopherols will cause you to lose 2/3 of your gamma tocopherol.

It takes only about 50 mg alpha tocopherol to lower testosterone if that's your motivation, and doses above 150 IU/day tend to be harmful, so I use one of Jarrow's products that have 50-60 IU alpha and massively more gamma so that gamma doesn't get depleted. I also take 3 x 250 mg vitamin C and 100 mg CoQ10 so that the tocopherols can get recycled. If they don't get recycled, they cause the very same free radical damage that we're trying to prevent.

[Lotus]

If you have specific "Relevant" info concerning what's posted I suggest you provide more research regarding as such rather than personal bias.

I have no bias towards or against either natural or synthetic therapies. I judge each substance on its own merits. I believe that the study I cited and the well-known incurable side-effect of mucuna's active ingredient provide a legitimate reason to warn people away from mucuna.

If I had a prolactin problem that didn't respond to chasteberry, I'd try to get some pramipexole. And I would refuse a prescription for any of the numerous dopamine agonists that are ergot derivatives, because they all carry some risk of heart valve fibrosis.

The study you mention states this:

(Same study, different reporting source)
Medscape Medical News
Mucuna pruriens Seed May Be Helpful in Long-term Management of Parkinson's Disease:

These findings suggest that M pruriens formulations may actually have a higher bioavailability than standard L-dopa preparations.... If these findings can be confirmed in larger and longer term studies, mucuna would seem to be a reasonable commercially viable alternative to standard L-dopa."

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/494984

It would make more sense not take herbs that increase Prolactin, like Fenugreek or Goats Rue if your prolactin levels are high. However in any event mucuna pruriens isn't high on my priority list of herbs for NBE.

In fact the study I listed states this:

A number of agents discussed here that have a proposed role in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases (and PD in particular), including cannabis, mucuna pruriens, and Chinese herbals, deserve more attention from basic science researchers and clinical investigators before they can be either safely utilized or dismissed.

So I'll go by that suggestion.